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  #51  
Old 10-26-2020, 03:14 PM
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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Originally Posted by tazaroot View Post
I'm agreeing with you 100% that the cause for alarm with the fed boyz is that the "brace" is adjustable. No different than putting a six position telescopic stock on a regular AR pistol. I built my own AR pistol with a 7" barrel and decided to forgo the brace (don't like them) and put on a Phase 5 padded buffer tube.
Well, FWIW, look up the Ruger 08570 AR pistol. It has a length-adjustable arm brace too, and the ATF hasn't gone after it (yet).

I think the theory advanced by others is more plausible.
That it is more a combination of 1) they didn't get BATFE approval for their "brace", and 2) it really isn't possible to get your arm inside their "brace".

Though the fact that it is adjustable COMBINED with the other two issues may be a third contributing factor to the BATFE deciding that they crossed the (ill defined) line with their design. Kinda like the GCA "points" system blocking the import of cheap handguns with too many of the "wrong" features.

I like my shockwave brace. It has a fixed length and doesn't really look like a stock due to its blade-like shape. Even though it can be braced against your shoulder, it isn't designed to be very comfortable if used that way, which (theoretically) would discourage it being used that way.
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  #52  
Old 10-26-2020, 04:30 PM
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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I think the problem with the Honey Badger is that the "brace" is adjustable for length. Every other brace I've seen is fixed. The Honey Badger brace may as well be an adjustable carbine stock. I'll bet a dollar that's how the ATF saw it.
I'd take that bet.

First, I have personally never seen a fixed arm brace on an AR-style pistol, and my buddy and FFL is a Class 5 manufacturer and he builds them routinely. Everyone I have ever seen adjusts the same way as a Mag-Pul stock, by way of example. So the adjustability of the Honey Badger cannot be the issue.

Someone above said something about an error in measurements. That might be true, I don't know, but I understood the Honey Badger's brace to be solid such that one cannot easily get an arm into it, if at all. If it is solid then it's not a brace for an arm, it's a stock.

I could go on and on about the legal niceties of this issue but suffice it to say the ATF regulations are poorly written, even more poorly understood, and it is for precisely that reason that firearms like the Shockwave and AR pistol exist.

A small but amusing correction for BB7 is in order:

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Originally Posted by BB57 View Post

..........
Ideally, how it works is that a law is introduced in both houses, reconciled in both houses to resolve any differences, and the reconciled bill is then passed on both houses.

Once that happens the law is sent to the cognizant federal agency to write the regulations that will implement the law...............
One fun omission there, just for clarity:

and the reconciled bill is then passed on both houses.

Right in here is where that reconciled bill has to go to the President for signature in order to become a law

Once that happens the law is sent to the cognizant federal agency
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  #53  
Old 10-26-2020, 10:42 PM
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
I'd take that bet.

Someone above said something about an error in measurements. That might be true, I don't know, but I understood the Honey Badger's brace to be solid such that one cannot easily get an arm into it, if at all. If it is solid then it's not a brace for an arm, it's a stock.
My inside source said the entire issue came about because of the (incorrect) manner by which the ATF measured the length from the trigger to the end of the butt plate. By the ATF's own rule, it should have been measured "in line with the bore." Instead, the measurement was made diagonally to the lower end of the butt plate, which gave a measurement longer than allowed--20 inches I think he said. It was not a question of it being a collapsible or folding stock, just an arbitrary measurement incorrectly applied.

So basically, the ATF did not follow its own rule and screwed up.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:45 PM
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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Time to amend the NFA. Remove restrictions on SBRs and "sawed off shotguns." As well as silencers. They are not unreasonable threats to society.
This ^^^^^^^
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  #55  
Old 10-26-2020, 11:39 PM
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post

Someone above said something about an error in measurements. That might be true, I don't know, but I understood the Honey Badger's brace to be solid such that one cannot easily get an arm into it, if at all. If it is solid then it's not a brace for an arm, it's a stock.
If that's true then what's this? It's solid, not readily adjustable, but it is adjustable, and an arm obviously doesn't fit inside.



Is it a stock? That's the KAK shockwave blade stabilizer brace.
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  #56  
Old 10-27-2020, 01:32 AM
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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there are a number of adjustable braces on the market.
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  #57  
Old 10-29-2020, 11:20 AM
Rivoak Rivoak is offline
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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Originally Posted by SAFireman View Post
From reading the material provided, it appears that the ATF doesn't buy the pistol brace as such. If they re-submitted with an actual functioning brace, then maybe this would go away.

Well, the brace looks like a buttstock to me. The ATF seems to require any approved pistol brace leave extensive bruising to the shoulder of a user firing it that way.


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  #58  
Old 10-29-2020, 11:23 AM
Rivoak Rivoak is offline
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ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR ATF decides Honey Badger AR Pistol is SBR  
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Originally Posted by Gamecock View Post
Time to amend the NFA. Remove restrictions on SBRs and "sawed off shotguns." As well as silencers. They are not unreasonable threats to society.

Lots of luck with that one. After the shooting at congressmen playing baseball occurred, the hearing protection act went in file 13. Probably forever. People carrying ARs to protests for no good reason probably killed the rest of potential gun regulations favorable to us.


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