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Old 12-21-2020, 09:28 AM
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It is about time!!! Interesting to see what this begets
Smith & Wesson Sues New Jersey Over ‘Anti-Second Amendment Agenda’
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Old 12-21-2020, 09:40 AM
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Lie in bed with the dogs..wake up with fleas. Bending to the governments wishes in the late 90s (built in gun lock agenda) should have taught S&W that making deals with the government (federal or state) is not going to make you friends. As the worm turns..
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Old 12-21-2020, 12:46 PM
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Lie in bed with the dogs..wake up with fleas. Bending to the governments wishes in the late 90s (built in gun lock agenda) should have taught S&W that making deals with the government (federal or state) is not going to make you friends. As the worm turns..
Unfortunately the current ownership has no control over what the previous owners did. They are fighting for the company’s life.
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Old 12-21-2020, 04:03 PM
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I wish them good luck, they are going to need it!
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Old 01-07-2021, 07:32 PM
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It's time to get past the Tompkins period. They are gone and S&W needs the support of every gun owner. What happens to them will affect Glock, Colt, "insert the name of your favorite gun manufacturer here".
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:13 PM
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Be careful what you wish for....

This sort of litigation can produce unintended consequences!
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:19 PM
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They kind of went with the "maybe they will eat me last" theory. I guess they were not happy with the outcome.
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:06 PM
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Lie in bed with the dogs..wake up with fleas. Bending to the governments wishes in the late 90s (built in gun lock agenda) should have taught S&W that making deals with the government (federal or state) is not going to make you friends. As the worm turns..
Smith & Wesson had nothing to do with that. Read your history! Before you condemn someone, make sure you know who the guilty party was! Blame the right people, not Smith & Wesson.
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Old 01-23-2021, 06:37 PM
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From what I was told by workers at S/W at that time , was they had no money to fight the federal lawsuit so it was that or go out of business. We sure would have lost out on alot of neat guns if SW had just fought, folded and gone under. I always figure there are plenty of prelocks out there if you have to have one.
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Old 01-23-2021, 07:00 PM
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From what I was told by workers at S/W at that time , was they had no money to fight the federal lawsuit so it was that or go out of business. We sure would have lost out on alot of neat guns if SW had just fought, folded and gone under. I always figure there are plenty of prelocks out there if you have to have one.
Again, not really the case. The reason they had no money to fight, was, Tompkins held the purse strings.
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Old 01-23-2021, 09:23 PM
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Well, I wish them luck.
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Old 01-23-2021, 09:30 PM
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I wish them luck too.

On the subject of the lock, one can plug it although Massad Ayoob is against it because non-gun people end up on juries.

I found two Model 638-2's (638-3 started the lock) fairly easily and didn't pay more than $350.00 for either and I think one was $250.00. Both shoot great.

Pre-lock revolvers come up on Gunbroker fairly often but prices are high right now due to the current buying craze.

Last edited by handejector; 01-23-2021 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 01-23-2021, 10:08 PM
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The political opposition tactic of litigating against the wealth of a manufacturer for the sins of buyers is proliferating. Our commerce and legal system needs some kind of governing principle to protect manufacturers. The tort bar has sued private aviation out of business over pilot error. Toyota lost $5 billion in shareholder equity over runaway acceleration that proved to be a figment. Volkswagon AG has forfeited $20 billion in fines for cheating on lab tests without any accounting of damage to the environment or consumer loss. Dow Corning was driven to bankruptcy over silicone breast illness proven false. Politically motivated prosecutors have no accountability to anybody except an electorate that is barely paying attention. I have always espoused a reform to the jackpot justice tort industry, that awards punitive damages in civil cases to the state treasury, and compensatory damages and legal fees to the successful plaintiff. We take it for granted, but one of the strengths of our western civilization is respect for property rights and lawful commerce without political kleptocracy. They are under serious assault.
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:21 AM
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The political opposition tactic of litigating against the wealth of a manufacturer for the sins of buyers is proliferating.
Tort reform is WAY overdue but we have a government run by the same people who profit from this environment so I think it's very unlikely that we will see any relief in our lifetimes. What really happens with these big law suits is that it drives up the price of things. When you buy a gallon of Round-Up to kill your weeds, how much of what you pay do you think is going to pay off that billion dollar cancer award?
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:46 AM
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On the subject of the lock, one can plug it
I don't mean to cause thread drift, but is it even necessary to plug the hole? Isn't that just a cosmetic thing - dropping a small metal cylinder in the hole to conceal it? What counts is removing all the internal parts associated with the lock mechanism? That's a question.
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:24 PM
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Every gun and ammunition company is now the target of Governors, Attorneys General, financial institutions, etc.

The legal protections they have from frivolous lawsuits by “ victims “ and governing bodies are about to be removed by legislation to be introduced this year. Expect some of these companies to be out of business in three years.
The surviving companies will be forced to enact tremendous price increases to cover court costs and new environmental regs aimed at them specifically.
Insurance companies may be the ones that actually finish them off.
You can’t operate a business of any size when no insurance company will touch you with a ten foot pole over fears of retaliation by activists and governmental entities.

Things will never be like they were a year or two ago again. Ever.
Welcome to the New Normal.

Last edited by smoothshooter; 01-26-2021 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:30 AM
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I don't mean to cause thread drift, but is it even necessary to plug the hole? Isn't that just a cosmetic thing - dropping a small metal cylinder in the hole to conceal it? What counts is removing all the internal parts associated with the lock mechanism? That's a question.
Yes, you can just remove all the lock parts. It does leave the hole which is not a really a function problem. The plug is very easy to install though.
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:50 AM
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True. But it is hard to get past all that when we still have that hideous, and mostly unwanted/unnecessary Internal Lock staring us in the face. When will that become a thing of the past? I'd be more than happy to support S&W in its current incarnation...but at the same time it would be nice if they would listen to their customer base.
Most of their customer base is not concerned about the locks.
They ARE concerned about S & W’s survival.
If S &W goes under, I suppose a little thing like the lock issue becomes sort of a moot point, doesn’t it.
“ But hey, at least we stopped them from producing any more guns with the locks, right?”

“ Let not the perfect be the enemy of the good.”

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Old 02-09-2021, 12:16 PM
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The “Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act” hasn’t protected gun manufacturers from being sued. The lawyers just changed their tactics.

They are now suing based on marketing or advertising. It has worked, we just lost Remington because they could no longer afford to defend themselves in these lawsuits. I assume that is why they want old Smith & Wesson advertising info.

Even if companies can stay in business we will carry the burden of these baseless lawsuits in increased gun prices.
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Old 02-09-2021, 01:54 PM
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we just lost Remington because they could no longer afford to defend themselves in these lawsuits.
Someone will be along shortly to correct you on this, and point out that if not for the commie state of NY none of this would have happened. And as soon as they move to a free state the sun will shine 24/7, the old craftsman of yesterday will shed their walkers, they will return to work in their Medicare funded mobility scooters, and they will start producing high quality $50 BDL's...as soon as they leave New York.
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Old 02-10-2021, 01:14 PM
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The “Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act” hasn’t protected gun manufacturers from being sued. The lawyers just changed their tactics.

They are now suing based on marketing or advertising. It has worked, we just lost Remington because they could no longer afford to defend themselves in these lawsuits. I assume that is why they want old Smith & Wesson advertising info.

Even if companies can stay in business we will carry the burden of these baseless lawsuits in increased gun prices.
Remington's demise was the result of far more than any lawsuit.
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Old 02-13-2021, 03:06 AM
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Since it has become popular to redefine the 1st Amendment in opposition to it’s intent by our Constitution and Bill of Rights, would it not make sense they would become emboldened and strike at our treasured 2nd? By merely introducing H.R.127, have they not made it clear their intent to usurp the 2nd Amendment and since the 2nd ensures our right, it also makes it clear (reference - The Federalist Papers : No. 46) it is incumbent that citizens are required to stand up against a tyranny. Calling H.R.127 an act of a tyrant would seem to be an understatement.
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Old 02-13-2021, 09:59 AM
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Since it has become popular to redefine the 1st Amendment in opposition to it’s intent by our Constitution and Bill of Rights, would it not make sense they would become emboldened and strike at our treasured 2nd? By merely introducing H.R.127, have they not made it clear their intent to usurp the 2nd Amendment and since the 2nd ensures our right, it also makes it clear (reference - The Federalist Papers : No. 46) it is incumbent that citizens are required to stand up against a tyranny. Calling H.R.127 an act of a tyrant would seem to be an understatement.
I agree 100%.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:20 AM
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The biden assault on 2A has begun. I hope there are enough Patriots who will help fend off this assault.
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Old 02-23-2021, 04:40 AM
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Do think America will fall like the other European countries and even Australia and accept a assault weapons or semi auto gun ban? What will you do when they say to turn them in or buy them back?
Taking down Remington Arms was there goal in the end. I think this sent a warning to all the other gun manufacturers. Fact faulty trigger or not we never point a loaded gun at anything we don’t want to shoot. Plus never trust any guns safety. Case closed.

Last edited by BigBill; 02-23-2021 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 02-23-2021, 08:57 AM
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Do think America will fall like the other European countries and even Australia and accept a assault weapons or semi auto gun ban? What will you do when they say to turn them in or buy them back?
A few years back I would have quickly said NO! to that question. BUT. After witnessing "things" over the last year or so...now I'm not so sure. I'm rapidly losing my faith in the American people as a whole...to do the right thing. As for part 2 of the question, I don't have the types of firearms they would say "turn em in"...as I am a nerdy revolver and lever gun fanatic...but if I did own them I wouldn't turn them in. I'd encourage others to not comply...as we all know that once you lose a freedom, a Right or a privilege...you never get it back. I plan on spending the rest of my life with the same amounts of rights I was born with.
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Old 02-23-2021, 09:16 AM
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SCOTUS will be of no help on this, just look at the decisions from the PA. elections.
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:30 PM
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SCOTUS will be of no help on this, just look at the decisions from the PA. elections.
Sad but true. The SCOTUS was always a source of comfort for me when facing intense pressure from the anti-gunners. Now, I have much diminished faith that they'd do the right thing and side with the 2A and The Constitution. More than likely, they'll just refuse to hear any gun related cases that get tossed their way.
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:51 PM
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I'm sure government thinks guns make it safer.
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 PM
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Pro gun insurance companies should get in on insuring against frivolous lawsuits. Sell a hatchet. Someone gets killed with the hatchet. Do they act all crazy about that? Take a kid shooting. Take a kid fishing.
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