I'M FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AND I'M HERE TO TAKE YOUR GUNS

[robertrwalsh]

AB173, signed into law last year by Governor Newsom, is now in effect. This law specifically authorizes the Ca DOJ to release information to the University of California, Davis, Firearms Violence Research Center and pretty much any other "research institution" on the name, address and birth day of people who purchase guns and where they purchased them. The law also specifically authorizes the release of this information to the Federal Dept. of Education.

Does that mean the University will be sending people to your home to "talk to you?" I don't know, but why else do they want your specific address, as opposed to maybe just a zip code. Does that mean if you have both children and guns you can count on a visit from the Dept. of Education in order to "ensure" that your children are not in danger due to your irresponsible decision on gun ownership? I don't know that either. Do you?

[fordson]

Isn’t that info PII (Personal Identifiable Information), and therefore, as such, protected with safeguards for use and distribution?

[kennethg]

The NRA-ILA has asked the court to issue a Temporary Restraining Order, enjoining the Cal DoJ from releasing any of that personal information until the case can be heard.

[hsguy]

I have deleted 8 posts from this thread, perhaps it would be worthwhile to read the rules of the 2A forum before posting. I realize that California bashing is a popular sport here but we have many valuable members on this forum from CA.. Have you considered, even for a moment, that they may stay there for employment, to be close to family or perhaps to care for family members in need of medical assistance and leaving is not an option? Many comments posted were beyond insulting and downright foolish.


This forum is about ACTION that can and should be taken to protect or advance the cause of freedom.

Ideally, we should see nothing here that does not pertain directly to threats to or expansion of 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.
That means this forum is about PENDING LEGISLATION and responses from legislators or the actions of legislators or about PENDING CHANGES in carry permit laws and issues.
Court Cases directly related to the 2nd Amendment can be discussed.


/\ Read that AGAIN /\
Ask yourself if your thread fits one of those topics!
We are having to move or delete too many threads.

LINKS:
Don't post a bare link and say "You gotta see this!".
Tell me WHY I gotta see this with a paragraph or two.
That is the start of a discussion.
Posting a bare link is merely creating an internet index.
Any link posted should pertain directly to threats to or protection of or expansion of 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.
If your link gets deleted, you either failed to describe its value, or it does not meet our standards.


This is NOT:
This is not where you post general political discussion and comments on OTHER issues not related to the 2A. Other issues are the economy, Obamacare, general Lib bashing, tinfoil and black choppers, how to start a revolution, etc, etc.
Keep it focused on the 2A issues.

This is not where you discuss what the 2nd Amendment means to you or a free people in general. We already know that. We understand the philosophy.

This is not where you bash the states/locations that suffer under restrictive gun laws.

This is not where we chat about which states have good gun laws.

This is not where you post your "What If's".

This is not where you swear your "Cold Dead Fingers" oath. Print it out and pin it to your door.

This is not for the latest news about some scumbag shooting someone or getting arrested with a gun.

This is not where you post your latest AR or AK.

This is not for discussing gun and ammo prices or availability.

This is not where you post which movie stars or talking heads are currently bashing the 2nd Amendment.

This is not where you moan about liberalism or the changes in our culture.

This is not for the latest news on a gunowner using a gun lawfully for self dense, unless it is simply an OUTSTANDING situation that we can use in the halls of Congress.

This is not where you will fix everything wrong with our society.




What we SHOULD do here:
ALERT people to upcoming restrictive legislation at ANY level of government, and discuss and promote methods to fight it.

ALERT people to upcoming legislation (if any) that is supportive of gun rights, ownership, and usage or carry.

INFORM people on methods of being proactive in the fight, including encouragement to contact their legislators and/or congressmen.

We will always have plenty to talk about that is spot-on for this forum. Let's keep the clutter down, and stay focused on the object.

I'll also remind you to heed the rules for this board.
You can find them at the top of this forum.
Especially note these two-
5. Do NOT even think about implying, wishing, or stating ANY kind of harm or misfortune should befall ANY elected government official.
If you want to talk to the Secret Service, just call them up and leave me out of the middle.

6. Derogatory, Flippant, or Crude names for any government official will NOT be tolerated.
Respect the OFFICE, if not the holder.
That means the President of the United States will be referred to as the President, or by the accepted usage of his last name or initials- 'Obama' or 'BHO' or 'Trump'. Other government officials will be afforded the same courtesy.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

[BC38]

Hopefully this gets struck down in the courts, even if it has to go all the way to SCOTUS. I can see no valid reason for this info to be released to anyone not in law enforcement and only then if they are tasked with serving a warrant on your home.
Can anyone think of any other legitimate use for this info by any other person or group?

[bruce381]

Originally Posted by BC38

Hopefully this gets struck down in the courts, even if it has to go all the way to SCOTUS. I can see no valid reason for this info to be released to anyone not in law enforcement and only then if they are tasked with serving a warrant on your home.
Can anyone think of any other legitimate use for this info by any other person or group?

I do not know but social shaming and harasment come to mind

[jag312]

I think there are a lot of problems here. IF the State releases firearm information to UC Davis, and IF UC Davis tries to contact me at the address I used when I bought a few guns at The Gun Exchange, for example, in San Jose, this was when I lived in the Willow Glen area of San Jose. I also have two so-called assault weapons that I had to register with the State at my Willow Glen address. I don't live there anymore. I'm in Nevada, in the beautiful Carson Valley. I do have a place in Santa Cruz that I call The Scuba Shack (I'm an avid scuba diver), but I have never used that address to buy a firearm in California. So what is UC Davis going to do? If they try to contact me at my old address in Willow Glen, the current residents ain't me. If they try to contact me at The Scuba Shack, all I have there are wet suits, fins, tanks, regulators, etc.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by bruce381

I do not know but social shaming and harasment come to mind

Yeah, but those aren't legitimate uses for the info. Knowing you have guns might be a legit need of LEOs if they are serving you a warrant, but like I said before that is the only legitimate purpose for anyone to have this info IMO.

[Paul in Nevada]

Originally Posted by bruce381

I do not know but social shaming and harasment come to mind

This is my thought exactly. The purpose is to have a chilling effect on gun buyers, especially those who might be employed by the CA UC system.

Originally Posted by BC38

Yeah, but those aren't legitimate uses for the info.

You are hopelessly naive if you think laws always serve a legitimate purpose that helps society.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by Paul in Nevada

This is my thought exactly. The purpose is to have a chilling effect on gun buyers, especially those who might be employed by the CA UC system.


You are hopelessly naive if you think laws always serve a legitimate purpose that helps society.

No, I'm not naive at all. Wise as serpents but harmless as doves...
I asked if anyone could think of a legitimate use of the data, bruce581 suggested shaming and harassment, and I responded that those weren't legitimate uses for the data.
It was a back and forth exchange and you just took the last statement out of context to paint me as a rube.

[Paul in Nevada]

Originally Posted by BC38

you just took the last statement out of context to paint me as a rube.

It came out a little more harsh than I had intended.

[Rammer Jammer]

If I were a California gun owner my greatest concern would be a data breach and criminals having access to all my personal information especially which firearms I possess.

[Muss Muggins]

Somebody will have to help me thru the rules cited below for me to understand why this thread hasn’t been locked or deleted. There’s nothing in the OP about any PENDING (forum rule, not my emphasis) legislation. It passed. And even after the moderator post, there’s still a fair amount of bicker ongoing . . .

Originally Posted by hsguy

I have deleted 8 posts from this thread, perhaps it would be worthwhile to read the rules of the 2A forum before posting. I realize that California bashing is a popular sport here but we have many valuable members on this forum from CA.. Have you considered, even for a moment, that they may stay there for employment, to be close to family or perhaps to care for family members in need of medical assistance and leaving is not an option? Many comments posted were beyond insulting and downright foolish.


This forum is about ACTION that can and should be taken to protect or advance the cause of freedom.

Ideally, we should see nothing here that does not pertain directly to threats to or expansion of 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.
That means this forum is about PENDING LEGISLATION and responses from legislators or the actions of legislators or about PENDING CHANGES in carry permit laws and issues.
Court Cases directly related to the 2nd Amendment can be discussed.


/\ Read that AGAIN /\
Ask yourself if your thread fits one of those topics!
We are having to move or delete too many threads.

LINKS:
Don't post a bare link and say "You gotta see this!".
Tell me WHY I gotta see this with a paragraph or two.
That is the start of a discussion.
Posting a bare link is merely creating an internet index.
Any link posted should pertain directly to threats to or protection of or expansion of 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.
If your link gets deleted, you either failed to describe its value, or it does not meet our standards.


This is NOT:
This is not where you post general political discussion and comments on OTHER issues not related to the 2A. Other issues are the economy, Obamacare, general Lib bashing, tinfoil and black choppers, how to start a revolution, etc, etc.
Keep it focused on the 2A issues.

This is not where you discuss what the 2nd Amendment means to you or a free people in general. We already know that. We understand the philosophy.

This is not where you bash the states/locations that suffer under restrictive gun laws.

This is not where we chat about which states have good gun laws.

This is not where you post your "What If's".

This is not where you swear your "Cold Dead Fingers" oath. Print it out and pin it to your door.

This is not for the latest news about some scumbag shooting someone or getting arrested with a gun.

This is not where you post your latest AR or AK.

This is not for discussing gun and ammo prices or availability.

This is not where you post which movie stars or talking heads are currently bashing the 2nd Amendment.

This is not where you moan about liberalism or the changes in our culture.

This is not for the latest news on a gunowner using a gun lawfully for self dense, unless it is simply an OUTSTANDING situation that we can use in the halls of Congress.

This is not where you will fix everything wrong with our society.




What we SHOULD do here:
ALERT people to upcoming restrictive legislation at ANY level of government, and discuss and promote methods to fight it.

ALERT people to upcoming legislation (if any) that is supportive of gun rights, ownership, and usage or carry.

INFORM people on methods of being proactive in the fight, including encouragement to contact their legislators and/or congressmen.

We will always have plenty to talk about that is spot-on for this forum. Let's keep the clutter down, and stay focused on the object.

I'll also remind you to heed the rules for this board.
You can find them at the top of this forum.
Especially note these two-
5. Do NOT even think about implying, wishing, or stating ANY kind of harm or misfortune should befall ANY elected government official.
If you want to talk to the Secret Service, just call them up and leave me out of the middle.

6. Derogatory, Flippant, or Crude names for any government official will NOT be tolerated.
Respect the OFFICE, if not the holder.
That means the President of the United States will be referred to as the President, or by the accepted usage of his last name or initials- 'Obama' or 'BHO' or 'Trump'. Other government officials will be afforded the same courtesy.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

[BC38]

Originally Posted by Paul in Nevada

It came out a little more harsh than I had intended.

No problem man.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

Somebody will have to help me thru the rules cited below for me to understand why this thread hasn’t been locked or deleted. There’s nothing in the OP about any PENDING (forum rule, not my emphasis) legislation. It passed. And even after the moderator post, there’s still a fair amount of bicker ongoing . . .

Per post #3 there is a current court challenge (case).

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by BC38

Per post #3 there is a current court challenge (case).

And nobody has discussed it since. Action that can be taken is paying a lawyer to file friend of the court briefs regarding the restraining order or donating money to NRA-ILA to further the appeal . . .

[Paul in Nevada]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

And nobody has discussed it since. Action that can be taken is paying a lawyer to file friend of the court briefs regarding the restraining order or donating money to NRA-ILA to further the appeal . . .

I lived in CA for 30 years. I still have family there and I cross the border several times a month. I have a strong interest in CA gun laws. In fact, I still belong to several pro-2A groups, and yet I had not heard of this law.
This thread has served the purpose of informing me about an important piece of legislation that might come to my state next and which I might still be able to help fight by supporting pro-2A groups in CA.
I don't know who appointed you the conversation police around here but you have replied twice when it it would have cost you a lot less energy and aggravation to just close the thread and move on with your life.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

And nobody has discussed it since. Action that can be taken is paying a lawyer to file friend of the court briefs regarding the restraining order or donating money to NRA-ILA to further the appeal . . .

...and if discussion is limited as narrowly as you seem to want it to be there would be virtually no posts in this entire section.
I would suggest that the mods don't need anyone to tell them how to do their job, or how to interpret the rules for this or any other sub forum.
Don't like the direction of the thread? There are plenty of others for you to read - feel free to move along.

[Gunhacker]

Originally Posted by Paul in Nevada

I lived in CA for 30 years. I still have family there and I cross the border several times a month. I have a strong interest in CA gun laws. In fact, I still belong to several pro-2A groups, and yet I had not heard of this law.
This thread has served the purpose of informing me about an important piece of legislation that might come to my state next and which I might still be able to help fight by supporting pro-2A groups in CA.
I don't know who appointed you the conversation police around here but you have replied twice when it it would have cost you a lot less energy and aggravation to just close the thread and move on with your life.

Ditto... I'm in CA, and did not know about this piece of legislation. It pretty much flew under the radar of pro-2A groups.

From what I've found on Calguns, it started out as a standalone bill AB 1237, died in committee, and was then quietly added to budget trailer bill AB173, that was passed and signed into law.

To me, that sends up a red flare that the real intentions of this legislation is less than honest, if it needed to be slipped in the back door of another bill to be implemented.

[handejector]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

Somebody will have to help me thru the rules cited below for me to understand why this thread hasn’t been locked or deleted. There’s nothing in the OP about any PENDING (forum rule, not my emphasis) legislation. It passed. And even after the moderator post, there’s still a fair amount of bicker ongoing . . .

I can do that.
First, you reported this thread and we left it up. That should have been a strong clue that we felt it had merit.
I feel that the CA legislature has no good intentions here, and that this will only be used to further restrict gun rights. I also feel that it is a violation of the privacy of gun owners, and potentially harmful to them.
It is such an insidious action against lawful gun owners that it must be publicized, and I do not think it has been announced here before. Indeed, we have several CA members saying they have never heard about it.
So, I'll highlight some text below with "THIS >" for you that covers its legitimacy, as determined by us. Look all the way down.
As I said, you reported this thread and we left it up. That means we deemed it worthy. Feel free to report any posts that you feel need attention and we'll always look at them, but you are not a moderator, so don't moderate this board or try to moderate this board with commentary on how we moderate. NONE. I hope that is clear to you.

Originally Posted by hsguy

I have deleted 8 posts from this thread, perhaps it would be worthwhile to read the rules of the 2A forum before posting. I realize that California bashing is a popular sport here but we have many valuable members on this forum from CA.. Have you considered, even for a moment, that they may stay there for employment, to be close to family or perhaps to care for family members in need of medical assistance and leaving is not an option? Many comments posted were beyond insulting and downright foolish.



THIS > This forum is about ACTION that can and should be taken to protect or advance the cause of freedom.

THIS > Ideally, we should see nothing here that does not pertain directly to threats to or expansion of 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.
That means this forum is about PENDING LEGISLATION and THIS > responses from legislators or the actions of legislators or about PENDING CHANGES in carry permit laws and issues.
Court Cases directly related to the 2nd Amendment can be discussed.


/\ Read that AGAIN /\
Ask yourself if your thread fits one of those topics!
We are having to move or delete too many threads.

LINKS:
Don't post a bare link and say "You gotta see this!".
Tell me WHY I gotta see this with a paragraph or two.
That is the start of a discussion.
Posting a bare link is merely creating an internet index.
Any link posted should pertain directly to threats to or protection of or expansion of 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.
If your link gets deleted, you either failed to describe its value, or it does not meet our standards.


This is NOT:
This is not where you post general political discussion and comments on OTHER issues not related to the 2A. Other issues are the economy, Obamacare, general Lib bashing, tinfoil and black choppers, how to start a revolution, etc, etc.
Keep it focused on the 2A issues.

This is not where you discuss what the 2nd Amendment means to you or a free people in general. We already know that. We understand the philosophy.

This is not where you bash the states/locations that suffer under restrictive gun laws.

This is not where we chat about which states have good gun laws.

This is not where you post your "What If's".

This is not where you swear your "Cold Dead Fingers" oath. Print it out and pin it to your door.

This is not for the latest news about some scumbag shooting someone or getting arrested with a gun.

This is not where you post your latest AR or AK.

This is not for discussing gun and ammo prices or availability.

This is not where you post which movie stars or talking heads are currently bashing the 2nd Amendment.

This is not where you moan about liberalism or the changes in our culture.

This is not for the latest news on a gunowner using a gun lawfully for self dense, unless it is simply an OUTSTANDING situation that we can use in the halls of Congress.

This is not where you will fix everything wrong with our society.




What we SHOULD do here:
THIS > ALERT people to upcoming restrictive legislation at ANY level of government, and discuss and promote methods to fight it.
{COMMENT added for Muss: Though this is already law, it is obvious it was slipped by the public, so the fight now is to get it repealed or limited.}

ALERT people to upcoming legislation (if any) that is supportive of gun rights, ownership, and usage or carry.

THIS > INFORM people on methods of being proactive in the fight, including encouragement to contact their legislators and/or congressmen.

We will always have plenty to talk about that is spot-on for this forum. Let's keep the clutter down, and stay focused on the object.

I'll also remind you to heed the rules for this board.
You can find them at the top of this forum.
Especially note these two-
5. Do NOT even think about implying, wishing, or stating ANY kind of harm or misfortune should befall ANY elected government official.
If you want to talk to the Secret Service, just call them up and leave me out of the middle.

6. Derogatory, Flippant, or Crude names for any government official will NOT be tolerated.
Respect the OFFICE, if not the holder.
That means the President of the United States will be referred to as the President, or by the accepted usage of his last name or initials- 'Obama' or 'BHO' or 'Trump'. Other government officials will be afforded the same courtesy.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

[/QUOTE]

[Muss Muggins]

Duly noted . . .

Originally Posted by handejector

I can do that.
First, you reported this thread and we left it up. That should have been a strong clue that we felt it had merit.
I feel that the CA legislature has no good intentions here, and that this will only be used to further restrict gun rights. I also feel that it is a violation of the privacy of gun owners, and potentially harmful to them.
It is such an insidious action against lawful gun owners that it must be publicized, and I do not think it has been announced here before. Indeed, we have several CA members saying they have never heard about it.
So, I'll highlight some text below with "THIS >" for you that covers its legitimacy, as determined by us. Look all the way down.
As I said, you reported this thread and we left it up. That means we deemed it worthy. Feel free to report any posts that you feel need attention and we'll always look at them, but you are not a moderator, so don't moderate this board or try to moderate this board with commentary on how we moderate. NONE. I hope that is clear to you.

[/QUOTE]

[LDM]

My great fear is that if this information gets "leaked" into public access, it will provide a list of places where those with ill intentions will burglarize in order to obtain weapons to commit more heinous crimes.

[OLDSTER]

Please let me know when you'll be at my door. I would just love to meet you.

[bigl1911]

I am a California guy, a strong supporter of gun rights and an active member on this forum. I am not happy with Cali politics as it relates to gun rights as is the case with so many here; however there is a point missed by most. First, California was one of the most gun friendly states going back pre 1968 plus or minus. The Cow Palace in SF and Pomona gun shows were as I was told two of the best ever. I am not getting political, but I was not a big fan of Harris mainly because of how she ran the Cali DOJ firearm division and defended things like the roster. Her justifications were nonsensical, result oriented and not driven by facts. I have a CR and COE and comply with Cali laws and have a good working knowledge of the system. The point is you don't resolve these type of gun right problems by running and leaving the state. In my case, I continue my firearm interests, do so as a legal person who complies with law, interact with both DOJ and ATF since I have a federal firearm licence and live in this state as a collector as is the case with many gun enthusiasts. The basis of California gun laws if you remove all the BS; one gun removed from the state is one life saved. The diametrically opposed view from a legal gun owner if we want to fight the power; every legal gun entering the state supports the 2nd and our gun rights. This is what is missed by some many Cali haters. The clear issue AB173 is a serious privacy issue notwithstanding there is a clear message the research will be performed in a biased manner in an effort to limit legal citizen gun rights.

[Paul in Nevada]

Originally Posted by LDM

My great fear is that if this information gets "leaked" into public access, it will provide a list of places where those with ill intentions will burglarize in order to obtain weapons to commit more heinous crimes.

A newspaper did this not too long ago when they published a list of all CCW holders in a particular state. The clear purpose was intimidation and harassment, hiding behind "transparency".

Originally Posted by bigl1911

...The point is you don't resolve these type of gun right problems by running and leaving the state....

As a Californian who ran away to Nevada, I can tell you that running away doesn't work precisely because there are other Californians right behind you.

[bigl1911]

Nevada,

As gun owners we need to fight those who would take our 2nd amendment right away. The restrictive gun control issue in California is not about Californians; it is about fear, uninformed people and political agendas. Liberal political thinking is clearly overtaking conservative viewpoints throughout most of the country. We have to educate those who don't get it. The old joke, "How do you turn a liberal into a conservative? A mugging."

As a Californian who ran away to Nevada, I can tell you that running away doesn't work precisely because there are other Californians right behind you.[/QUOTE]

[mikerjf]

While you’re educating people about our 2A rights, be sure they understand that America’s gun owners are the only reason that America isn’t locked down like Austria and Australia.

America is the only place tyrants have to fear physical retaliation. The whole world’s future is being decided right here and now.

[steelslaver]

Publish the names, birth dates and addresses of all those who voted in favor of such a bill.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Paul in Nevada

A newspaper did this not too long ago when they published a list of all CCW holders in a particular state. The clear purpose was intimidation and harassment, hiding behind "transparency".


As a Californian who ran away to Nevada, I can tell you that running away doesn't work precisely because there are other Californians right behind you.

The Gannett family of newspapers posted the names and addresses of permit holders in NY circa 2010 or so.

They never got the list from my county because the list was on paper, not digitized. Our great county clerk, judges, and legislature refused to turn it over.

Then the editors picture, home address and work address were all of a sudden posted online.
She pleaded for privacy, the nerve.

In addition there were some well known anti-gunners on the pistol licensee list.

There was an insertion into the UNsafe Act of 2013 if I recall, that allowed folks to sign a form to keep their info private.

[quikdraw67]

Originally Posted by ladder13

The Gannett family of newspapers posted the names and addresses of permit holders in NY circa 2010 or so.

They never got the list from my county because the list was on paper, not digitized. Our great county clerk, judges, and legislature refused to turn it over.

Then the editors picture, home address and work address were all of a sudden posted online.
She pleaded for privacy, the nerve.

In addition there were some well known anti-gunners on the pistol licensee list.

There was an insertion into the UNsafe Act of 2013 if I recall, that allowed folks to sign a form to keep their info private.

Yeah, do as I say, not as I do.

Hypocracy at its finest.

[sipowicz]

Originally Posted by robertrwalsh

The law also specifically authorizes the release of this information to the Federal Dept. of Education.

Does that mean the University will be sending people to your home to "talk to you?" I don't know, but why else do they want your specific address, as opposed to maybe just a zip code. Does that mean if you have both children and guns you can count on a visit from the Dept. of Education in order to "ensure" that your children are not in danger due to your irresponsible decision on gun ownership? I don't know that either. Do you?

^^^^^^^^^^

They will use your children to get to your guns. "Johnny, does your dad have a gun? Does it scare you? Would you like us to talk to your dad?

[mattallamerican]

i dare not say anything about this thread im surprised its still open