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Originally posted by KKG:
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Originally posted by G-ManBart: Have you really seen a .45acp that could get 1200+fps out of a 180gr bullet?
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Yes.
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Okay, what load and what gun? That's beyond anything anybody publishes.
The closest you could come would be a plated or lead bullet, and even then, nobody claims 1200fps within pressure limits.
.45acp simply can NOT be loaded to the same ballistics as a 10mm and stay within pressure limits. It's not even really close. Sure, .45acp can be hot rodded to be plenty powerful, but there's no free lunch and you'll have to go over pressure limits to get close to what a 10mm gets well within limits.....and they've backed off 10mm compared with when it was first released (find some of the data on the old Norma stuff).
Cor-Bon is know for loading pretty much the hotest ammo you can get from a mainstream company. Their .45acp 185gr +P load is listed at 1150fps out of a 5" tube. No way anybody's getting another 150fps out of it and be even remotely close to SAAMI specs for pressure.
Their 10mm 180gr hunter load is listed at 1300fps out of a 4.6" barrel (assuming an auto). That load in my revolver with a 3 7/8" barrel is 1200fps on the nose. So, with a shorter barrel it's getting an extra 150fps and it's not considered +P.
Hornady's .45acp 185gr XTP load is listed at 970fps out of a 5" barrel. Their 200gr XTP +P load is 1055fps out of a 5" barrel. Sure, the bullet is heavier, but dropping 20gr isn't gonna speed it up 150-250fps.
Hodgdon's loading data center lists a single load for .45acp with a 185gr bullet that's over 1000fps (1044). They have a few more with 180gr lead that break 1000fps, but the fastest was still only 1047fps.
Compare that with their data for 10mm and it shows a 180gr JHP at 1287fps with a number of others in the 1200+ range.
Unfortunately they used PSI for 10mm and CUP for .45acp so you can't readily compare apples to apples in pressure for the Hodgdon loads, but there's no comparison, 10mm is a much higher pressure cartridge. .45acp+P SAAMI max pressure is 23,000psi. 10mm SAAMI max is 37,500psi.
I've loaded a LOT of .45acp, love it to death (my first centerfire handgun is a Gold Cup Series 70 bought new when I was 13 and still have), but it's not capable of coming close to what a 10mm can do unless you go way over SAAMI specs...and if you do the same with the 10mm it'd even further embarras the .45 since the case web is thicker and stronger so you can go a lot farther, pressure wise, without blowing out cases. The cross-section and sectional density differences are worth something, for certain, but in terms of pure energy there really isn't any debate about which one is more powerful. R