Question for you military & military history guys.

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M29since14

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The thread about five-star officers reminded me of an old aggravation. I am always amused at the various experts who pipe up on almost any subject, so here is another chance for you guys.

Tell me about the rank of Commodore? I gather it is never used anymore... ? I also gather it was the equivalent of a BGN.

If a Navy Captain is "roughly the equal" of an Army Colonel, how is it that Navy general officers skip the one-star rank and go on to Rear Admiral (Major General)?

This has always puzzled me and I have never heard a plausible explanation. Anyone care to jump in?
 
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The thread about five-star officers reminded me of an old aggravation. I am always amused at the various experts who pipe up on almost any subject, so here is another chance for you guys.

Tell me about the rank of Commodore? I gather it is never used anymore... ? I also gather it was the equivalent of a BGN.

If a Navy Captain is "roughly the equal" of an Army Colonel, how is it that Navy general officers skip the one-star rank and go on to Rear Admiral (Major General)?

This has always puzzled me and I have never heard a plausible explanation. Anyone care to jump in?
 
Yes the rank of Commodore is equivelent to the one star rank of Brigadier. When I was in, the Navy used the rank of Rear Admiral (2 stars) and seperated it into upper half (= to MGN) and lower half (= to BGN). Both grades wore 2 stars. Traditionaly, a Commodore was a division commander (such as a battleship division, destroyer division etc.) Therefore the rank lended itself to a war time setting. Having said that, I don't believe the rank of Commodore was used in WW2.
 
Commodore is used in many navies for officers whose position exceeds that of a navy captain, but is less than that of a rear admiral. Sometimes referred to as a 'one star' and was effectively discontinued by the United States around 1899 but revived during WWII, mainly as a title given to a senior captain of a squadron.
 
A navy one star is a rear admiral lower half. No skipping allowed. The commodore is used in foreign navies and is somewhere between Capt and Admiral. A navy Capt is exactly equal to an Army Colonel, Both O-6 on the pay scale.
 
The Coast Guard uses the word Commodore in the Auxiliary. Which are volunteer civilians.
 
M29since14 - I believe it was used as an actual rank ( for seniority and pay). You went from Captain to Rear Admiral, Lower Half. Then to Rear Admiral, Upper Half. Then to Vice Admiral. The Commanding Officer of the Ship I was on, (USS TARAWA) went from Captain to Rear Admiral, Lower Half. You'll also remember in the John Wayne (God bless him) epic IN HARMS WAY when he is promoted at the dinner party, Admiral Nimitz (Played by Henry Fonda) reads the citation promoting him to Rear Admiral, Lower Half. I'm sure they did this for a reason, but damned if I know why.
 
1. A Navy Captain IS the equal of an Army (or Air Force or MC COL-same pay grade.
1. "Commodore" has gone in and out of fashion over the years, it has been both a rank and a position. Congress did not authorize the rank of admiral until 1862, a Commodore was the title given to a captain in command of a squadron-Commodore Perry, e.g.
2. Then as the United States began to take a more active role in world affairs and the US Navy began to "show the flag", questions of protocol made the rank of Commodore seem rather old fashioned and not quite prestigious enough.
It was revived in 1981 as part of Reagan's efforts to restore military prestige and morale after Carter, it was finally abolished in 1985.
(A college friend went in the Marine Corps in 1977, there was an attempt to revive the practice of Marine officers wearing the Sam Browne belt, went by the wayside, alas.)
 
So far, the rank of Rear Admiral info is correct. You have a lower half, 1 star, and an upper half, 2 star.

The title Commodore is still used, but there is not a specific rank of Commodore.

A Commodore is usually a senior Captain that is in charge of a division of destroyers,subs,an Air Wing or other large groups of people who are seperate commands under one division commander. So although the person holds the rank of Captain ( 0-6 ) he is given the honorary title of Commodore.

In WW2 there were fears of a glut of admirals following the war so the rank of commodore was used ( 1 star, O-7). They quit using the rank Commodore in 1947 and by 1953 or so they had either all been promoted to Rear Admiral (2 stars)or retired.

In 1982, because the other services were whining about the Navy Rear admirals being paid for O-7 but wearing O-8 insignia the one stars again appeared, but this time they were officially Commodore Admirals, not senior Captains.

That got really confusing, we had Commodores by title who were in fact senior Captains (O-6) and Commodore Admirals who were O-7's (1 star).

So that lasted a couple of years and we lost the one star again, went back to Rear Admiral lower half and upper half and senior Captains in charge of divisions of destroyers, subs, airplanes, etc were called Commodore once again, although they wear the insignia of a Captain.

And all was right with the world and the Army, Air Force and Marine Corps 1 stars went back to crying in their wheaties.

bob
 
Sounds good to me Bob. I can imagine it would be dishearting to those "other" services.
icon_biggrin.gif
 
Thank you, guys. I am beginning to understand. The answer to the question seems to be dependent on the time period. That does explain a few things.

When I said "roughly equal" to an Army Colonel, I was remembering a friend who retired as a Navy Commander. When I said something like that in casual conversation once, he was quick to point out that I had better not let a Navy Captain hear me saying that! Apparently a Captain who commands a ship takes exception to that kind of langauge.
icon_wink.gif
 
AFAIK in the Navy the commander of "a ship"-an old Navy vet gave me the definition years ago, I have forgotten it-has the position of "captain" while holding whatever rank he has.
In the 19th Century I think the term "Master" or
"Master of Vessel" was used. Naval ranks developed later than and were standardized later than Army ranks and changed quite a bit-at the Battle of Lake Erie Oliver Hazard Perry
held the rank of Master Commandant.
 
Yes, you could be a Lt. and as long as you are the senior officer on board (actually in command of the ship) you are called Captain. Master was a sailing ship hold over (and may still be used in the Coast Guard). Like a senior petty officer in command of a small craft.
 
Guys, I didn't say that right. I think I should have said, "A Navy Captain who ALSO commands a ship takes exception to that kind of language." I think what the good Commander was trying to tell me is that the Navy boys don't consider themselves equal, pay grade notwithstanding, but maybe I didn't understand him properly.

Anyway, thanks again for the additional info.
 
Originally posted by gunsmith11:
Doesn't the Coast Guard still have Commodores
Click to expand...

While in the Gulf ('91) we were invited to the promotion of a Coast Guard Captain to Commodore. Right in the middle of the ceremony there was a scud alert-the newly promoted Commodore was way ahead of me in getting into the back end of a Bradley.
 
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