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Originally posted by BE Mike:
Quote:
Originally posted by Doug M.:
Gary Roberts has published a list of various 5.56 rounds which meet criteria based on what the shooting need is (barrier or not, etc). There are no magic bullets, including .308 or slugs. Some folks are hard to stop, and placement really matters. One can have non-survivable wounds and continue to function - even a few seconds as described early in the string is too long on the 2 way range, but that sort of outcome will not change in the near future.
I'm comfortable with my AR as a patrol rifle, because at close range I can do an NSR (non-standard response) in short time in a reasonably small space.
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I just read one of Jim Cirillo's books. He had similar observations to yours. Jim thought that nothing was a sure stopper, even a 12 ga. slug. He saw most of it first hand.
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Yeah, Cirillo did some important empirical research on the topic while on the stakeout squad, and his writings can teach us a lot. Chuck Taylor has written about his experiences with .45ACP ball. Pat Rogers refers in his classes to his observations from NYPD shootings, including his own shootings, and his experiences in 'Nam (including a .308 failure on Charlie at pretty close range with good hits). Other folks have been out there with guns in combat of various types and reported their experiences.
The shooter's delivery to the target, the target's motivation (FBI 1986 shootout), etc are all variables, just as the ammo is. Get a load that works every time in your gun, which has a decent record/reputation for/match to your needs/conditions; develop good knowledge of where to shoot your adversary (humans or animals, depending on your situation), and keep shooting until they no longer present a threat. Don't expect a "one shot stop" - the one time it matters might be the one time you don't get one!