I was thinking of picking up some new SD ammo for my M10 (4" Heavy Barrel). I have heard of lot of good things about BB but they have two offerings in .38. One being the LSWCHP 158gr and the Gold Dots in 125gr. Which one would work better in a SD situation and why? Thanks.

__________________
ACF

Even the experts argue endlessly about this question and many, I'm sure, will post their opinions. I wouldn't want to play catch with either load. Try a box of each, see which one the combination of you and your gun shoot the best with repeated accurate hits and you will have the best for you. There are just to many variables to make one universal best for everyone.

THe idea I'd worry about with BB is not there loads or their quality but rather are these 38's loaded to a +P standard? If so, I don't think you shoud be feeding a model 10 a steady diet of these pills - IMO.

My main reason for using 158 LSWCHP's (or 158gr anything else, for that matter) is penetration. They also often shoot to POA in fixed-sight revolvers. I think that they are a safe choice, +P or not. However, if the 125 Gold Dots hit the target where you think they should, you might see whether you can find some info from Speer on how they perform in testing following the FBI protocol, which I believe is a pretty good test, weighted reasonably towards penetration. My recollection is that most Gold Dots were successfully designed to pass that test.

Myself, I carry 158gr LSWCHP +P from the Big Three in guns for which the manufacturer sanctions it, and standard 158s in the aluminum J's.

The only thing that can answer this question for you is your gun. The 158s will probably hit point of aim, and the 125s could be 4 inches low. Both in my opinion will be good loads, but what will matter is where they hit the target. Buy a box of both and go to the range.

Does anyone know what kind of brass Buffalo Bore uses? Is it their own headstamp, or some other manufactures' stamp?

Thanks!

Oh, in response to the OPs question, I'd go with the 158 grain SWCHP, but I suspect either would do well. I just happen to like heavy bullets in .38 Special. I consider the 158 grain bullet to be light, but its the heaviest of the commonly available ones.

They use Starline brass. I shoot this load in a 640 .38 and in a Model 67 38 and they operate within SAAMI specs and it is very accurate. I'm talking 158gr LSWCHPGC here.

Great round. And at the price they ask for a box, I don't think you'll shoot anything loose, through firing thousands of rounds.

Good stuff, I even use it in my Model 65 3".

Starline.
Check a 20 rounder of 125's to see where it impacts out of your gun.
But I'm running their +P 158 out of my 342PD and in my Wife's night stand Model 66. You can't always count on the size, weight or clothing someone may be wearing?

I have to think that a 4" HB Model 10 will absolutely thrive on those 158s! Their penetration should also be a strong point. It's also likely that the 125s will hit low, as others have mentioned.

I have 158g +P W-W in my 4" revolver, which shoots them to POA. In my snubbies & non-+P guns, however, I handload 200g LSWCs to provide excellent penetration & controllability despite the fact that they hit high. At any SD/HD distances, I figure a center mass hold will still work fine.

With all of that being said, however, I put a lot of stock in how a load "feels" to the shooter & how the gun itself functions with it. You'll be happiest shooting both & seeing which one seems to work best for you. Both are certainly effective rounds.

2" barrels can be iffy as far as bullet performance goes in that caliber. 4"s will get rid of the fudge factor. Both should be great. POI is king here (as others have said).

Wow! Even if you don't hit the target, at least you'll be able to collect on the damage to your hand.

What grips do you use?

i just ordered a the 158gr LSWCHP....

Can't wait to try them out and keep some for night table duty.

__________________
ACF

My old skinny-barrel 4" Model 10 has digested several thousand handloads, most of which were loaded to "Buffalo Bore+" levels. It is still as tight as a new one. I'd not worry much about running BB ammo through a Model 10. You aren't likely to want to spend enough on their ammo to buy enough of it to hurt your gun.

On POI: I've shot two HB Model 10s, one of which I own, that put 125gr. +P loads dead on POA at 25 yards, shooting 158s at least 3" high. As others have noted, your results may vary.

Good info, but the OP is specifically asking about self defense use, and 25 yards is probably not a good distance to evaluate ammo for that purpose. The POA at 7 yards or less may be more important. And, I agree with you that +P in a Model 10 should not cause any concern.

520,
I'm running the Hideouts (via Erich's suggestion) on the 342. I agree, you wouldn't want to have to shoot more than 5 of them out of it? I figure if I need all five, my hand hurting will be the least of my troubles!
I was starting to wonder why everyone was calling me "Lefty" though. Think it could have anything to do the bandages?

Thats funny, my skinny barreled model 10 shoots 158gr bullets high too. In some cases 6" high, but will put 125gr bullets POA/I.

Yesterday I received a box of the BB LSWCHP +P. They look like a quality product. One thing I noticed right away is that the hollow point is alot deeper cavity than other manufacturers...IE: Rem & Win. I hope my model 10 shoots them well.

__________________
ACF

Let us know how it goes. My fixed sight K frames are all different. Some like the heavier bullets and some like the 110's and 125's. You just have to try them and see where they hit.

I like the BB ammo but man does it have some kick. Even the standard pressure stuff is stout. With a 4" K frame it's not much of an issue but with the J's, no way for me.

__________________
Centennial Every Day

My wife and I use the Buffalo Bore® 158gr LSWCHPGC ammunition. We use the STANDARD PRESSURE in our snubnose carry guns. In our 4" 686 house gun we load 38 Special Heavy +Ps. FWIW, both my wife & I, find the +P stuff to be pretty brutal in our snubbies, in our 4" 686 however, it's very managable. Both the standard pressure, and +P ammo, shoots to POA. (POA=POI). Buffalo Bore® ammo, at least in 38 Special, is THE BEST ammo out there IMHO.

__________________
David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

BB 158 SWC/HP's are in my house gun as we speak (2.5" Mdl 19). They are an excellent choice. They ain't cheap but how do you put a price on safety.

I use the standard pressure variety of the Buffalo Bore 158 SWCHP's in my carry guns. It shoots close to point of aim with my J frames.

I would like their 150gr wadcutters sometime.

All three of ours I've tried the 150 standard pressure, low flash hard cast B/B's in Dave, (2-342PD's and a Model 66 4") shot precisely to their sights (in the case of the 66, it's sights are adjusted for a 158 +P). There was, as advertised zero flash. I can't lay my hands on the data I did across a friends chrono with them, about two+ years ago. (Change of computers lost the info) But, what I do recall was that it actually slightly beat advertised velocity and had extremely tight S/D's out of a 1 7/8" barrel. It's recoil felt softer than it's performance indicated. But that's not an uncommon characteristic in many full wad cutters?
They are the load that currently ride around in my Wife's 342PD with C/T grips. Very easily controlled.

Models 49 and 442:
BB Standard Pressure 158's.
Model 640 (38):
First 2 BB Standard Pressure 158's
Next 3 BB 158 +P's.
Model 340 PD:
BB 125 +P's (jacketed so no lead issues).
Ruger SS 357 Speed 6 - 2 & 3/4 inch :
BB 158 +P's.
Beside it, 2 Safariland Speed Loaders with:
Corbon DPX 357's.

I have great confidence in Buffalo Bore's 38 Spl offerings. I've used the 158gr +P, 158gr std and 150gr hardcast all with excellent results. As others have mentioned, the +P is VERY stiff in an Airweight snub. For me, it's what I keep in a 4" Model 13 for HD. The std pressure works well in the snubbies.

__________________
With S&W, you're holding history in your hand

I find this "high" - "low" discussion to be intriguing. I have several 38/357 revolvers. With one exception, they all shoot exactly to point of aim with 158gr .38+Ps or 158gr magnum rounds. The exception is my little J frame 36. That gun shoots consistently high with heavier rounds and hits right at POA with 125gr rounds. I've wondered if the difference was me, and not the gun. The 36 has fixed sights and a tiny front sight that is very difficult for me to visualize. I suspect that I tend to aim consistently high with the gun and the 125gr rounds compensate for my aiming error. In any event, I'm not complaining, because shooting the 125s makes me dead on accurate.

.38 Special:

Standard 17,000 psi
+P 20,000 psi (raised from 18,500 psi)
Proposed +P+ 21,500 psi (not adopted)
BB +P 22,000 psi (equal to old CUP standard for +P)

I have been using this as my carry load in my 2" model 64 with good results.

Also it is my understanding any model marked k-frame will handle +p ammo.

I'm looking for a carry load in a 442, the 158 LSWHP in standard pressure sounds like a good load. Any thoughts about wear and tear on the gun?

Shouldn't hurt your gun at all. S&W J frames are tuff. Mine has survived +P+.

I went to the BB site after posting and it looks like the 158 grain LSWCHP standard pressure load might be a good starting point for the aluminum J frame.

I've been out of the .38/.357 world for some time and need to re-educate myself to what is the latest and greatest...or time tested round available.

I agree. I've used both in a couple of guns.

__________________
Sincerely,
Hobie

After reading a lot of posts on this topic I ordered some BB standard pressure 158gr LSWCHP from Midway for my 36 no-dashs and Colt Cobra. Will probably try their wadcutters too. Like a poster said, they were designed to shoot this type of round. Already have some Federal standard 110gr fmjhp's to compare.