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  #1  
Old 09-20-2009, 12:21 AM
perpster perpster is offline
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Default .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?

For a concealed carry personal defense CS45, what do you folks think of loading it with Corbon 185 grain JHP +P instead of 230 grain RN FMJ factory rounds? Go with the higher speed flying ashtrays, or the standard speed flying gumdrops? Anticipated aggresors would be 2 legged, or possibly 4 legged canine.
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:31 AM
James NM James NM is offline
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My personal preference is to go with the lighter bullet weights with the shorter barrel lengths.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
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My personal preference is to go with the lighter bullet weights with the shorter barrel lengths.
+1, and bullets that may expand are better than those that never will, provideed they're not too light.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:25 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Pistol type? Fixed or adjustable sights?

Lighter bullets at significantly higher velocities will frequently shoot quite low (compared to point of aim). Most fixed sight handguns are regulated for "standard" ammunition in the caliber chambered. In .45 ACP that usually means 230-grain bullets.

Before relying upon the 185-grain loads, make a trip to the range. Check point of impact, as compared to point of aim. Also, run two or three magazines full through the pistol (from each magazine you will be using) to make sure that the ammunition will feed, fire, extract, and eject reliably.

The differences between high velocity hollow points and low velocity hardball can be argued forever. But, the bullet that hits the target is the one that ends the fight. Reliability and accuracy are the gold standard; everything else is a **** shoot.
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Old 09-20-2009, 07:35 AM
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The real short barrel pistols have issues. You're losing velocity, if you go to lighter bullets to try to get the velocity back, you're losing sectional density/penetration.

Lobo's got an excellent point about the sights. Cor-Bons got a 230 gr JHP load that should provide decent penetraton and might still expand. I expect their 185 gr DPX would do very well, but you're into the POA/POI issue again, plus it's pricy. I wouldn't carry hardball.
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Old 09-20-2009, 09:38 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Hi:
When I was carrying a M4506 for "On Duty" and a M4516 for "Off Duty"
I used Federal 230gr Hydro-shoc or Winchester Silver-tips.
Jimmy
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Old 09-20-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
The real short barrel pistols have issues. You're losing velocity, if you go to lighter bullets to try to get the velocity back, you're losing sectional density/penetration.
Penetration may be fine if the bullet is designed right. Example; in .380 gelatin testing, the 90 gr. Speer Gold Dot and Hornady XTP expand, but are engineered so that they only mushroom out to ~ .45", the Remington Golden Sabre gets much bigger, over .6". The Golden Sabre puts on the brakes much harder and is a shallow penetrator (I want to say ~ 9", IIRC), but the Gold Dot and XTP can expand and reach depths of over 12" deep. If such a bullet exists in .45 ACP I don't know, but I would be willing to bet someone has done it. Speer, I'm sure, makes a short barrel .45. That would seem to me a logical place to start one's ammo selection.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:04 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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A lot can be learned from Doc Roberts over on M4carbine.net

Take a look here...

Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

From his testing these loads are my choice in .45 acp chambered guns.

Federal 230 gr HST or 230 gr HST +P
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:01 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOBO View Post
A lot can be learned from Doc Roberts over on M4carbine.net

Take a look here...

Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

From his testing these loads are my choice in .45 acp chambered guns.

Federal 230 gr HST or 230 gr HST +P
I prefer 230gr.HST standard pressure even in a four inch barrel.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:39 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Used to carry Hydra-Shok, but now prefer 230 gr Remington Golden Saber JHP.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:46 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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This is pretty simple.

Hard ball, and round nose lead, are LOUSY stoppers, and transmit little energy into the perp.

You will wound the tree, or bystanders, behind the bad guy.

Expanding/fragmenting bullets work.

I was going to leave the .45/9mm/.40 argument alone, but again, hard ball is lousy for human targets. ALL calibers.

I am not talking about shooting moose, elk, or brown bears, another completely different topic.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
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I was going to leave the .45/9mm/.40 argument alone, but again, hard ball is lousy for human targets. ALL calibers.
I agree with John. I personally would go with a 185gr Bullet like the Winchester Ranger- T Series or Federal's HST bullet.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:34 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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I have two 1911's and from what I have read the 1911 was designed to shoot ball type ammunition. I can't get HP ammo to feed reliably so all I have is ball type ammo which chamber flawlessly. Why are all ball type described as target rounds? A 230 gr projectile traveling at 890 fps and 400 + ft lbs of muzzle energy is NOT enough for self defense? What am I missing? HP's do not consistently expand according to many ballisticians. So, other than for marketing purposes, why the hype? We all know shot placement is key.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:36 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flathead View Post
I have two 1911's and from what I have read the 1911 was designed to shoot ball type ammunition. I can't get HP ammo to feed reliably so all I have is ball type ammo which chamber flawlessly. Why are all ball type described as target rounds? A 230 gr projectile traveling at 890 fps and 400 + ft lbs of muzzle energy is NOT enough for self defense? What am I missing? HP's do not consistently expand according to many ballisticians. So, other than for marketing purposes, why the hype? We all know shot placement is key.

reread post #11. FWIW, all my 1911's (and have many) eat any and every JHP reliably. You need to get some work done on yours. The 1911 was designed 100 years ago before there was such a thing as hollow point. Todays 1911s are a different animal in that respect. And its certainly NOT hype when it comes to quality proven JHP ammo. Ball which doesn't expand cannot hold a candle to expanding ammo of today for stopping ability....and yes, shot placement is key when all is said and done - if one is able to guarantee it. A guarantee may not come however.
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:34 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Of the two choices you posted, I would find some CorBon DPX 185 JHP loads and use them. The standard 185 JP bullet they use is prone to under penetrate...not so the Barnes all copper bullet used in their DPX load. Otherwise, what LOBO said...
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:42 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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If feeding is an issue in a 1911 Corbon "Pow R Ball" is the load to carry. It's a JHP with a nylon ball on the tip. They look like a Glaser Safety Slug. I also find 230gr Hydrashocks feed 100% due to the rounded profile. I carry the Corbons in my Colt Lightweight Officers ACP backed up with a magazine or 2 of ball. All Wilson Combat mags of course.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:35 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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For all intents and purposes, CorBon magic bullets simply does not exist for me. I just can not afford $1 plus per shot, nor would I be comfortable shooting a couple and then relying on it for carry.
I use Winchester personal protection old school 230gn JHP in both my Glock 30 and Norinco 1911. It feeds perfectly in both, and is accurate.
I would not feel underarmed with a decent 230gn FMJ, though.
Frankly, I am astounded at the prices for some SD ammo. I don't believe the price has anything to do with the cost of r&d or production...just what the market will bear.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:08 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Solve the problem -- Speer 230 grain Gold Dot short barrel JHP.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:29 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Just thinkin... if l'm the bad guy.... I'd just as soon not get shot with either round! I guess the reasoning for these rounds, maybe with exception of FTF and FTE, would also hold up for the 25s and 625s? At any rate, good thread with good information and good opinions.
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:17 PM
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The following is from the link that I posted above. *It is from Doctor Gary K. Roberts. He shares some of his findings/information and answers questions at,

Terminal Ballistic Information - M4Carbine.net Forums

*Per Doc GKR the following loads are in no particular order.

.45 ACP:

Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)

-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

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Old 04-14-2012, 06:51 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel load if you can find it..........or this, if heavy clothing isn't an issue.

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Old 04-14-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perpster View Post
For a concealed carry personal defense CS45, what do you folks think of loading it with Corbon 185 grain JHP +P instead of 230 grain RN FMJ factory rounds? Go with the higher speed flying ashtrays, or the standard speed flying gumdrops? Anticipated aggresors would be 2 legged, or possibly 4 legged canine.
I'd go with a JHP round instead of a FMJ round for carry. The reasons are:
1. JHP rounds are designed to expend all their energy in the first target they hit, which means more incapacitation to your antagonist. It it not likely to hit a body and exit the other side. So it is much less likely to strike a bystander standing behind your target.
2. FMJ rounds were designed for military use, where you are shooting at enemy soldiers and if the round goes through the first target to strike another target, so much the better. It is also more likely to wound rather than kill outright, so more enemy soldiers will attempt to rescue their hollering comrade. When they try, you will have more targets to shoot at.

I would definitely not choose FMJ rounds for self protection. Maybe I'd have a spare mag with them, but the gun would be loaded with JHP rounds.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:36 PM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flathead View Post
I have two 1911's and from what I have read the 1911 was designed to shoot ball type ammunition. I can't get HP ammo to feed reliably so all I have is ball type ammo which chamber flawlessly. Why are all ball type described as target rounds? A 230 gr projectile traveling at 890 fps and 400 + ft lbs of muzzle energy is NOT enough for self defense? What am I missing? HP's do not consistently expand according to many ballisticians. So, other than for marketing purposes, why the hype? We all know shot placement is key.
What you are missing is the fact that ball or solid non-HP bullets in service calibers ALL have a a record of dangerous overpenetration in soft tissue. And even some heavy-for-caliber JHP bullets have a history of non-expansion overpenetration.

As a side note, we all know that shot placement is King, but unless you train nearly every day like many of the "High Speed Low Drag" special operators throughout the world, when you are confronted with a life or death, fight or flight situation, real shot placement goes out the window.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:53 PM
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Well, as far as addressing the 'lack of positive expansion', I can say that the duty load chosen by the PD I retired from was the Speer 230 gr. GDHP.
In over a dozen OIS incidents using the CS45 as well as full size 4566's, the M.E. always removed fully expanded bullets. Always.

That was good enough for me. Still carry the round in 3", 4.25" and 5" guns.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM 3200 View Post
Solve the problem -- Speer 230 grain Gold Dot short barrel JHP.
+1

...or the HST 230 gr
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flathead View Post
I have two 1911's and from what I have read the 1911 was designed to shoot ball type ammunition. I can't get HP ammo to feed reliably so all I have is ball type ammo which chamber flawlessly. Why are all ball type described as target rounds? A 230 gr projectile traveling at 890 fps and 400 + ft lbs of muzzle energy is NOT enough for self defense? What am I missing? HP's do not consistently expand according to many ballisticians. So, other than for marketing purposes, why the hype? We all know shot placement is key.
Hard ball is not useless, it's a fair stopper, around 65% if you buy some theories. However, 230 HP is a low 90's stopper. This is of course assuming correct shot placement. As others have mentioned, pass through is a huge issue with ball. Use the Pow'r Ball as others have said, it will solve you feeding issue and give you the benefits of a better round.

Consistent expansion in 230gr .45 round is a given with modern ammo. There is nothing wrong with the DPX as well, it's a good load. ASYM has a good copper load as well. My .45's are loaded with Fed HST LE's for 4-5 inch barrels and +P 230 Ranger T's for short barrels. I have no worries about these doing the job.
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  #27  
Old 04-14-2012, 10:38 PM
Flathead Flathead is offline
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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I was looking through my ammo safe and found a box of Pow'RBall I must have purchased in another life. I'll give it a shot. (pun intended) Thanks for all the replies.
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  #28  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:20 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Thanx but, I'll stay with proven results and feeding of my 230 grain full metal jacket.
Steve
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  #29  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:25 AM
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.45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ? .45ACP Carry Ammo: Corbon 185 grain JHP +P vs. 230 grain RN FMJ?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK View Post
This is pretty simple.

Hard ball, and round nose lead, are LOUSY stoppers, and transmit little energy into the perp.

You will wound the tree, or bystanders, behind the bad guy.

Expanding/fragmenting bullets work.

I was going to leave the .45/9mm/.40 argument alone, but again, hard ball is lousy for human targets. ALL calibers.

I am not talking about shooting moose, elk, or brown bears, another completely different topic.
Hmmmm, must be why military stayed with it soo long? This statement really show immaturity.
There is no know handgun round that will stop an attacker, first shot, every time!
Steve

Last edited by S.B.; 04-15-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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  #30  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:40 AM
StatesRightist StatesRightist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
Hmmmm, must be why military stayed with it soo long? This statement really show immaturity.
There is no know handgun round that will stop an attacker, first shot, every time!
Steve
Hollow points are a violation of Geneva Convention..but only since 1949.
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  #31  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:55 AM
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Talking Ball ammo

You threw this question out there so here is my take.

I carried a .45 Colt daily for well over 20 years. The department I retired from did an exhaustive study for duty ammo. We carried Winchester 230 gr. black talons and the department currently issues to all personnel Winchester Ranger T-series 230 gr. jacketed hollow points.

I shoot ball ammo all the time for practice but..... never for personal protection. Using an expanding bullet, a flying ash can, it will open to something like .72 caliber, I like that......

Just saying........Good luck, Bob
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:42 PM
bennettfam bennettfam is offline
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.45 is better than 9mm, .45 hp is better than .45 ball, .44 mag is better than .45 hp, 12 gauge shotgun is better than .44 mag. Somewhere you need to stop and accept what is a reasonable defense round that works for you.

I think .45 ball is worth the trade-off I get with flawless feeding in my old slabsides, but if you can achieve that reliability with hp ammo in your gun then good for you. We are both going to be better armed than the guy with the .32 or .380 mousegun, and there are a lot of folks betting their lives on those things nowadays.
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  #33  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
Hmmmm, must be why military stayed with it soo long? This statement really show immaturity.
There is no know handgun round that will stop an attacker, first shot, every time!
Steve
Military doesn't count. Never has. And if our military relied on handguns to fight, our country would be in trouble.

And how many rounds do our fine fighting guys and gals have to expend to put an enemy down? Because their using ball ammo, often it's much more than one round.

Immature? Go look in the mirror.
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  #34  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettfam View Post
.45 is better than 9mm, .45 hp is better than .45 ball, .44 mag is better than .45 hp, 12 gauge shotgun is better than .44 mag. Somewhere you need to stop and accept what is a reasonable defense round that works for you.

I think .45 ball is worth the trade-off I get with flawless feeding in my old slabsides, but if you can achieve that reliability with hp ammo in your gun then good for you. We are both going to be better armed than the guy with the .32 or .380 mousegun, and there are a lot of folks betting their lives on those things nowadays.
Glad it works for you. However, I feel that carrying fmj for protection is irresponsible at best. And I would never carry a gun that would not feed hollow points reliably. But that's just me.
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  #35  
Old 04-24-2012, 02:08 PM
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Lightbulb A different .45 FMJ load

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flathead View Post
I have two 1911's and from what I have read the 1911 was designed to shoot ball type ammunition. I can't get HP ammo to feed reliably so all I have is ball type ammo which chamber flawlessly. Why are all ball type described as target rounds? A 230 gr projectile traveling at 890 fps and 400 + ft lbs of muzzle energy is NOT enough for self defense? What am I missing? HP's do not consistently expand according to many ballisticians. So, other than for marketing purposes, why the hype? We all know shot placement is key.
When I carried my .45 1911 Colt Gold Cup I used a handload that the powder charge duplicated the 230 ball load. The difference was I loaded with ** Hornady 230FMJ SWC ***. Being they were a SWC that had a bit of a blunt end and it did limit the penetration somewhat.

I live in serious cold country and people tend to dress in multi lawyers of clothes in the winter. This load got through clothes easy and still did a sweet job on what was behind the clothes. At the time I carried that load ( 9mm 38-357 HP) ammo would plug up on clothes like that and not expand well The above described .45 loads would get through clothes and being a bigger diameter do lots of damage.

Note I still have over a thousand slugs available for loading, but have not carried that load since Massad Ayoob gave his big lectures on hand loaded ammo Vs the lawyers years back. They worked well, but I do not know if there available today their #was 4518

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  #36  
Old 04-24-2012, 06:28 PM
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For warm weather I love the Hornady Critical Defense load (185 grain FTX at 1,000 fps) but for heavy clothing/winter scenarios I prefer the W-W PDX loads or the Ranger ammo, yet one of the loads that surprised me was the generic 230-JHP from Remington, sometimes available in very affordable 100-round budget packs. The tested Hornady and Remington bullets are shown below.



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