Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Ammo
o

Notices

Ammo All Ammo Discussions Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-06-2009, 09:51 PM
WSmith WSmith is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Shotgun shells.

For shotgun shells. Do you want a higher or lower number for more knock down power . I have a box of number 5 and 6 shot. Seen 7 1/2 at store . I'm assuming that would be a sheet load ?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:04 PM
Bib's Avatar
Bib Bib is offline
Member
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: McKees Rocks Pa.
Posts: 666
Likes: 2,045
Liked 1,083 Times in 301 Posts
Default

The lower the number, the larger the shot pellets are....thus, the larger the shot, the fewer pellets in each shell. Target loads are 7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot. Hunting loads will usually be loaded to a higher velocity than target loads.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:14 PM
jkc jkc is offline
Member
Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 2,825
Likes: 1,256
Liked 630 Times in 357 Posts
Default

Shot size nomenclature is confusing --- in birdshot sizes, such as you mentioned, the larger the number, the smaller the diameter, so, #6 is smaller than #5, and so on, until #12, the smallest numbered size, followed by size "dust", which I've heard of, but never seen loaded in commercial shotshells. #12 is the tiny size used in .22 rimfire shotshells, for example. Buckshot sizes on the other hand range range from 000 ("triple aught") upward thru 00, 0, etc. to #4, in descending diameter. There are additional designations for non-lead shot sizes, as well. Not every increment of size is commonly available or even manufactured as far as I'm aware. You can find loaded shells in #6, 7-1/2, and 9, but I don't think I've ever seen #8 or#10 or smaller in standard guage shotshells, for example. This is tech trivia fraught with arcane measuring and descriptive systems --- approach with caution!

Last edited by jkc; 11-06-2009 at 10:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:49 PM
PDL's Avatar
PDL PDL is offline
US Veteran
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 314
Liked 75 Times in 33 Posts
Default

The short answer as was posted above is small number - bigger pellets - less pellets per shell.
Knock down with a shotgun is kind of a relative term. It's more like matching load to the intended target. Sticking with the 'bird' shot sizes you mentioned. Bigger birds like pheasant and grouse, maybe rabbit needs a larger shot size like 6. Dove sized targets need a lighter load like 8s, if you want more than feathers for the table. Turkey, needs #4 at least.
It's a matter of how many pellets in the pattern, and how much energy is needed to take down the game. Overall performance is also based on the weight of the shot charge, and the size of the powder charge.

Shot size number was based on how many pellets fit in a particular size circle - don't ask me what size circle, but that's what they used.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-07-2009, 07:35 AM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
Default

The circle is 40" in diameter.

And you can shoot a "sheet" with any size of shot. If you meant "skeet", 7.5 or 8 shot should work well. Skeet is a game using flat clay "birds".

T-Star
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:02 AM
wheelgun28's Avatar
wheelgun28 wheelgun28 is offline
Member
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SW CT
Posts: 2,419
Likes: 2,535
Liked 3,024 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Not to hijack the thread but, what are "Drams" and how do they play into the load.

When did they change the way shells are marked also the old shells I have are marked like. 2 1/2-1-6 I know it is a "6" shot, I guess 2 1/2" long and the 1 is drams? This happens to be an old 16 gauge paper shell that sits on a shelf. I have boxes of others marked in the same format.

I have been curious about this for a while now and I never get the same answer twice.

I really like old shotgun shells
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:29 AM
john traveler john traveler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 34 Posts
Default

A "dram" is a unit of measure used in the Avoisdupois weight system of pounds, ounces, etc. It was used to measure black powder charges for shotgun shells. Therefore, the larger the drams, the more powerful the shell. With the transition to smokeless powder, the power (velocity) of a shotgun shell was expressed as "drams equivalent" since it was not practical to express the weight of the smokeless powder which is much less bulky than the old smokeless powder.

An example would be a 3 dram equivalent 12 gauge shell. It contains the amount of smokeless powder needed to give the velocity of a 3 dram charge of black powder.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:31 AM
dg101win's Avatar
dg101win dg101win is offline
US Veteran
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 353
Likes: 233
Liked 135 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgun28 View Post
Not to hijack the thread but, what are "Drams" and how do they play into the load.

When did they change the way shells are marked also the old shells I have are marked like. 2 1/2-1-6 I know it is a "6" shot, I guess 2 1/2" long and the 1 is drams? This happens to be an old 16 gauge paper shell that sits on a shelf. I have boxes of others marked in the same format.

I have been curious about this for a while now and I never get the same answer twice.

I really like old shotgun shells
The marking 2 1/2-1-6 is 2 1/2 dram equivalent-1 ounce-size 6 shot.
Dram equivalent is a reference/carry over from the old black powder loadings as far as velocity of the load.
Without looking it up in a book I believe this would be a load that travels @ 1200 fps.
So in the old days it would take 2 1/2 drams of black powder to get 1 ounce of shot moving @1200 fps.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:35 AM
m1gunner m1gunner is offline
US Veteran
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: middle Ga.
Posts: 2,525
Likes: 211
Liked 610 Times in 301 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgun28 View Post
Not to hijack the thread but, what are "Drams" and how do they play into the load.

When did they change the way shells are marked also the old shells I have are marked like. 2 1/2-1-6 I know it is a "6" shot, I guess 2 1/2" long and the 1 is drams? This happens to be an old 16 gauge paper shell that sits on a shelf. I have boxes of others marked in the same format.

I have been curious about this for a while now and I never get the same answer twice.

I really like old shotgun shells

2 1/2 inch shell, 1 ounce of #6 shot
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:35 AM
john traveler john traveler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 34 Posts
Default

The usual format is drams (equivalent), shot weight, shot size.

Your 2 1/2-1-6 would read as: 2 1/2 dram equivalent of powder, 1 ounce of number 6 shot. A field load suitable for rabbits and squirrels.

A more powerful load for ducks and pheasants would be 3-1 1/8-4: 3 drams equivalent of powder, 1 1/8 oz of number 4 shot. This would give a higher velocity with a heavier load of larger shot.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:47 AM
s&wchad's Avatar
s&wchad s&wchad is offline
Moderator
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Great Lakes State
Posts: 29,687
Likes: 12,672
Liked 33,605 Times in 7,845 Posts
Default

Ignoring buckshot, shotshell pellet diameters can be determined (other than measuring) by subtracting the shot size number (expressed as hundredths of an inch) from .170”. It’s easier than it sounds.

.170” - .09” (#9 shot) = .080” pellet dia. for #9 shot
.170” - .06” (#6 shot) = .110” pellet dia. For #6 shot

Larger (heavier) pellets retain more energy at longer ranges and penetrate deeper.

Dram is a black powder term for volume that has been loosely carried over to smokless shell by the manufacturers. 2-¾ drams of black powder has the same volume as 1-1/8 ounces of shot. You could use the same dipper to measure shot and powder for your 12ga (2-¾ drams FFg, 1-1/8 oz shot), which is equivalent to a standard 12ga target load today (about 1200 fps). Loosely speaking, the higher the dram number, the hotter the load.
__________________
"I also cook."

Last edited by s&wchad; 11-07-2009 at 09:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-07-2009, 10:14 AM
m1gunner m1gunner is offline
US Veteran
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: middle Ga.
Posts: 2,525
Likes: 211
Liked 610 Times in 301 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john traveler View Post
The usual format is drams (equivalent), shot weight, shot size.

Your 2 1/2-1-6 would read as: 2 1/2 dram equivalent of powder, 1 ounce of number 6 shot. A field load suitable for rabbits and squirrels.

A more powerful load for ducks and pheasants would be 3-1 1/8-4: 3 drams equivalent of powder, 1 1/8 oz of number 4 shot. This would give a higher velocity with a heavier load of larger shot.
The 2 1/2 would be the dram eq. My mistake
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-08-2009, 09:33 AM
wheelgun28's Avatar
wheelgun28 wheelgun28 is offline
Member
Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells. Shotgun shells.  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SW CT
Posts: 2,419
Likes: 2,535
Liked 3,024 Times in 950 Posts
Default

Thanks guys!!

Well that explains why some of the old shells I that I shoot every so often have so much wack to them.

4-1 1/8-4

41/4-1 5/8-4

old paper or slightly newer roll crimped plastic shells. They make nice fireballs out of the 18" barrel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
commercial, rimfire, skeet, transition

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old shotgun shells rgarrelts Ammo 23 07-20-2014 05:07 PM
Anybody cut shotgun shells? fat tom Ammo 9 05-25-2012 04:27 PM
shotgun shells rchall Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 10 09-17-2011 10:30 AM
Brass Shotgun Shells - FL welldoya Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 1 10-10-2010 09:25 PM
Old shotgun shells gottlieb Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 10 03-04-2010 01:50 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:03 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)