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Old 11-10-2009, 04:02 PM
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Default 9mm kurz and .380

got a box of 50 "old" Western .380 at the show this past weekend and a box of 9mm kurz at the same time. the problem is the 9mm kurz would not feed in my amt .380's mag. i measured the "rim" of each case and the kurz is .002 bigger than the .380's. the kurz are some kind of spanish round, don't have them in front of me right now to confirm thew manufacturer. any body else ever faced this problem?

the kurz fed fine in my friends bersa
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:20 PM
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Question 380 ACP vs. 9m/m Short

My Lyman #43 lists both cartridges dimensional information as being the same. In fact, they are the only two pistol loads in the book that are listed under one single heading.
Lyman #43
Lists case head diameter (for both) as being .374"
Cartridge length as .675"

Speer #9 only lists the 380 ACP
The Speer manual lists the same rim diameter (.374")
However.
It lists the cartridge length as being .680".
Lyman doesn't state a rim thickness spec. Speer lists it @ .045".
Do you have any current vintage domestic stuff you could mic to compare dimensions off of? There's something about this issue rattling around in the back of my lame brain. Sorry, I just can't shake it out to the front?

Last edited by Spotteddog; 11-10-2009 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:27 PM
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9mm Kurz is German, Kurz is short. That is the German designation for what we call .380 automatic. My references also show the rounds are supposed to be identical.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:47 PM
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.380, 9mm Kurtz and 9 X 17mm are different labels for the same cartridge.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
.380, 9mm Kurtz and 9 X 17mm are different labels for the same cartridge.
You forgot 9mm Corto. and 9mm Browning Short. All the same thing depending on the country the ammunition was loaded in.
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:51 AM
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THANK YOU 8944!
That, was what my feeble brain hadn't retained!
I must be off now, to start hiding my own Easter eggs...
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:16 PM
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Default 9mm Kurz ammo

I have a vintage 70's Walther 9mm Kurz. On this Walther the barrel is pressed into the chamber. It is unfired with exception to the 10-12 rounds I put thru it. always thought it could fire .380 auto through it.
I bought a case of 500 Winchester 380 auto, and went to the range. I found that some of the rounds were jamming when ejecting. After a closer look I noticed that some of the casing were splitting, causing the jam.

Are there a variety of 380 rounds, like 380 western, 380, 380 acp, and 380 auto? I am told that the 380 auto is the same as a 9mm kurz (short) or 9mm Korto. Any solid confirmation available.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:42 PM
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There is another variation, the 9mm Ultra for which Walther chambered a PP (PP Super) which is slightly longer than the 9mm Kurtz and will NOT interchange. Both the ammo and guns are rare, though.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochituate View Post
I have a vintage 70's Walther 9mm Kurz. On this Walther the barrel is pressed into the chamber. It is unfired with exception to the 10-12 rounds I put thru it. always thought it could fire .380 auto through it.
I bought a case of 500 Winchester 380 auto, and went to the range. I found that some of the rounds were jamming when ejecting. After a closer look I noticed that some of the casing were splitting, causing the jam.

Are there a variety of 380 rounds, like 380 western, 380, 380 acp, and 380 auto? I am told that the 380 auto is the same as a 9mm kurz (short) or 9mm Korto. Any solid confirmation available.
Welcome! There is either a dimensional variation in the ammunition or your pistol's chamber. Ammo labeled as .380 Auto (ACP) should work in your gun no matter what the brand. I would try different brands other than Winchester (not that this is bad ammo) to see if they work; you may also see if a friend with a different .380 has the same problem. If all the cases split with firing you may have a barrel problem.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:09 PM
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I have several 32 and 380 autos and have bought and fired a wide
variety of ammo in both calibers over the years. Both calibers are very
common and popular world wide and produced by many different
companies. Most of the ammo that I have used for both has been FMJ
foreign made for export or sold off as surplus by various countries.
The rim thickness and profile and extractor groove contoure varies
considerably among the different manufacturers of these two rounds
and it's to be expected that some makes of ammo and guns will be
less compatible than others. If you only have one gun buy a few and
test for function before you buy a large amount.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:46 PM
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I own a CZ 75 BD 9mm, I know I can't chamber a 9mm Luger in the Walther. I called the Walther/West German Distributor. He recommended the Fiocchi 9mm short. Or the Italian Arl???? smething or other brand that also produces 9mm short. I did order the 9mm short, but they are so much more expensive than the .380 auto.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:33 AM
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Thumbs up .380

Just loaded 12 boxes of .380. I know mine will work.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:44 AM
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I believe it is also called the 9mm Kurz Corto.
Jim
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochituate View Post
I have a vintage 70's Walther 9mm Kurz. On this Walther the barrel is pressed into the chamber. It is unfired with exception to the 10-12 rounds I put thru it. always thought it could fire .380 auto through it.
I bought a case of 500 Winchester 380 auto, and went to the range. I found that some of the rounds were jamming when ejecting. After a closer look I noticed that some of the casing were splitting, causing the jam.

Are there a variety of 380 rounds, like 380 western, 380, 380 acp, and 380 auto? I am told that the 380 auto is the same as a 9mm kurz (short) or 9mm Korto. Any solid confirmation available.
It's extremely possible your pistol just didn't like that ammo. Anyone who shoots a semi-auto has had it happen to them. As for "solid confirmation", you can purchase "Cartridges of the World" and that will tell you 380 Auto, 380 ACP, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short, 9mm Browning Short, 9X17mm and maybe a few more I don't know about are all the same exact cartridges.

A difference of only .002" could be an error in measuring of just the variation of two different manufacturers. After all, that is only two one-Thousands of an inch.
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