.38 S&W measured velocities, vintage and current

will5a1 · #1 11-25-2009, 08:22 PM

The .38 S&W and its variants have always interested me, I had this past Monday off and was able to spent some time on the range with the chronograph, various revolvers and a small assortment of factory ammo. Over the past month or so I was able to buy some current production ammo and some vintage ammo, I already had on hand a good amount of FN .380 MKIIz (178 gr. FMJ). The current production ammo was one box of Remington, 146gr LRN, and one box of Fiocchi, 145gr FMJ. The vintage ammo was one full box of Winchester, 146gr Lubaloy RN, and a full and partial box of Remington Colt New Police, 150gr LFP. I'm guessing the Winchester and Rem. N.P. boxes date to the '50's. I was hoping to find some British WWII MKII ammo but wasn't able to.

I used the following revolvers, a Colt PPS, 4" (an ex RHKP gun), a S&W Model 11-4, a S&W 4" pre-Victory, a S&W 5" pre-Victory, a 4" Webley and a 5" Webley. Not having a 2" gun chambered for this caliber, and knowing some ammo is tight and some chambers are loose, I discovered that the new Remington (and it only) would fit in the chambers of my 2" Model 64, and my carry gun also, a 637. Temp was about 55.

Colt PPS 4" Fiocchi: 727mv/21.43sd/50es
WW: 645mv/16.01sd/44es
Rem NP: 641mv/18.27sd/54es
FN: 578mv/17sd/50es
R-P: 626mv/19.09sd/54es

S&W BSR 4" Fiocchi: 702mv/22.83sd/55es
WW: 615mv/21.91sd/60es
Rem NP: 684mv/10.42sd/29es
FN: 589mv/6.56sd/16es
R-P: 617mv/22.20sd/58sd

S&W BSR 5" Fiocchi:709mv/18.08sd/49es
WW: 618mv/21.10sd/60es
Rem NP: 665mv/19.86sd/30es
FN: 577mv/13.55sd/30es
R-P: 601mv/21.74sd/57es

W&S 4" Fiocchi: 632mv/13.44sd/28es
WW: 592mv/16.39sd/39es
Rem NP: 614mv/8.53sd/20es
FN: 570mv/8.33sd/22es
R-P: 557mv/16.34sd/46es

W&S 5" Fiocchi: 604mv/45.27sd/109es
WW: 528mv/60.57sd/142es
Rem NP: 586mv/27.76sd/68es
FN: 567mv/19.95sd/44es
R-P: 517mv/22.23sd/51es

S&W M11 4" Fiocchi: 687mv/28.08sd/74es
WW: 612mv/29.33sd/80es
Rem NP: 662mv/15.37sd/34es
FN: 551mv/21.47sd/56es
R-P: 581mv/11.87sd/33es

S&W M64 2" R-P: 514mv/38.60sd/104es

Most were 5 shot strings (a few were 6 shots when I realized I had enough ammo). I had entirely too much fun with the chronograph and plan on getting some more vintage ammo, and loading some black powder rounds, to see what sort of veliocities come out of these guns. Remington, and I believe Winchester, claim their current .38 S&W has a mv of 685 out of a 4" barrel and the nearest I got was with the Colt at 626. The Fiocchi left a lot of unburned powder, and the new production Remington burned the cleanest.

For fun I loaded up 10 rounds of Goex 3F BP loads, in old R-P ballon head cases, 10 gr by weight, out of the 5" BSR the average MV was 527, 14sd, 51es

thadheth · #2 11-26-2009, 08:40 AM

Looks like one terrific time at the range. What could be more fun than a late autumn day with temperatures in the mid-50's, a chronograph, and a great group of vintage revolvers?
Although your 5 and 6-shot strings are fairly small statistical samples, it appears that there are a couple of trends in your data:
1) The Fiocchi ammo had a consistently higher muzzle velocity (in spite of the unburned powder that you mention);
2) The FN (the heaviest bullet) has, in all but one case, the smallest standard deviation;
3) The old Remington NP consistently runs faster than the new R-P; and
4) The 4" Webley and Scott had muzzle velocities that were consistently higher than the 5" W&S.
Did you have any other observations from the data?

will5a1 · #3 11-26-2009, 12:49 PM

"any other observations from the data" only a couple - some of the shots were woefully slow (many here probably consider all the velocities slow), dropping under 500fps, with the slowest round only going 422 fps out of the 5" Webley. I was considering trying to borrow a 6" barreled gun but I wonder if that wouldn't be inviting a slow moving bullet to get stuck in the barrel.

The Colt, so far, has the fastest barrel, averaging 659.75 for all shots fired, with the 5" Webley only averaging 560 for all shots. Since I lost the data for the FN rounds through the Colt that may well change, I hope to get to the range this weekend and see.

If others have clocked their .38 S&W's it would be interesting to see how close our numbers are.