Dident mean to diss all hi-cap owner's, heck, I own and like my Hi Power and two S&W M&P's one in 9mm and one in 45ACP. Also I am a 1911 fanatic although all of mine are single stack's. However there is a lot of untrained and uninformed people out there LEO and civilian alike who rely on firepower to get a hit. The last shootout my department was in was a hi rounder with the only hit made was to the roof of one of my patrol car's by one of our Trooper's!

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Stay safe people!

Was it Duke Ventura who wrote an article last year that the .44 special was "nothing special"? I'm glad this post did not stir up any strong opinions one way or the other

Although I'm an attorney, I don't claim to be an expert like Massad Ayoob on the liability associated with using a "magnum" cartridge for self defense. My experience as a prosecutor in my first job out of school was that you generally don't want to carry anything more powerful than the police carry. This may have changed. Still, I would never want to sit in front of a jury in a civil or criminal case and answer why I shot someone with a magnum round that "many police departments considered excessive and no longer used." You get the point--lawyer b.s. whether it's factual or not, the jury could hear it. That is my main problem with shooting a person with a .357 magnum.

I would feel pretty comfortable shooting any animal other than a grizzly bear or a big moose or buffalo with it, and we don't have them here on the east coast except moose way up north.

Then again, having shot wild hogs before, if you know how nasty they are, I'd probably want my 44.

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Aaron Terry

When we were allowed to handgun hunt Deer here in Iowa, The .357 Mag. has been used to take many of our deer, Bucks and does. One well placed shot with a 158 gr. hp , stops them in their tracks, not so with the .40 when they are used..

A .357 Magnum has traveled too many woods paths and too many roads with me to get me to vote 'obsolete'. Not to mention, that caliber just turns me on.

In my opinion anyone who thinks the .357 mag is obsolete has never looked into it's full potential and/or has never shot it very much.

I have always like the 357 magnum. I used to butcher goats and sheep and found the 125 gr or 158 gr bullets put them quickly and painlessly.if you want more than 6 rounds get a 7 or 8 shot. The 357 was not designed for hunting the 44 was. Get the right tool for the job and you will be ok.

Instead of calling it obsolete, I'd call it versatile. Possibly the most versatile revolver/ammo type yet.

From poppers barely strong enough to get through paper targets to 200 grain hardcast shooting through-and-through on whitetails, it can do loads of things. There's lots available for reloaders and tons of factory ammo as well.

Yes, the .357 Magnum is obsolete. It definitely does not have the same capability as the .40 S&W to make guns go kaboom.

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NRA Life Member

I'm really glad some folks are convinced that the .357 is obsolete.. now if I could get 'em convinced that old blued smiffs are ALL obsolete, and then get everybody on THAT bandwagon, I'd be able to buy postware transitional M&Ps for a pair of Nike's or some coupons for free carwashes and like that.

Heck, I could clean up just in front of those buy-back places, trading Lorcins and Hi Points for unsafe and dangerous obsolete firearms. It'd almost be a public service.

Sometimes when people say things like that they are trying to see if you will show anger or draw first .

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Idaho , Elmer and Milt

I dont think 357 is obsolete, but I feel 40S&W is going to be obsolete. I have two glocks that use it so I am not a real hater.

The 40 does nothing that other rounds dont do better.

9mm +p+ just as good a penetration and more rounds in the mag.

357Sig better penetration same round count as the 40.

Lets not even start on the 45s ACP, GAP...

So why do we need the 40S&W? Practice ammo for the 10mm? Police duty guns that dont over penetrate...

It had its moment in the sun when the 9mm was weaker and the 10mm to powerful.

Oh, thats why they invented to 40S&W, because some people at the FBI could not handle the 10mm, so in comes the 40 Short &Weak.

Yes, some of what I wrote is in jest or at least something to think about. I guess the point is that anyone can find a reason why something is no good or obsolete

In Michigan you can not have a magazine that holds ore than 5 Rds while hunting in a autoloader so if you are in the woods dont hunt with one

.357 is a great round and IMO it is more practical than a .44 mag

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Don't look, reload and shoot!

I used to have no respect for the .357 and carried one of my Glocks .40s as my primary woods gun. It wasn't until I started getting into revolvers and shooting .357s that I really started looking into their balistics in higher end rounds that were available, such as from buffalo bore.

I also never realized just how slow the .40 really is, especially in the heavier loads. I still like the .40 as a defensive round against humans and as a LEO round, but I now pack an old model 66 3" as my primary woods gun loaded with buffalo bore 158s or 180 hardcast. And that's backed up by either a Winchester or Marlin lever gun using the same ammo. Although usually left in the truck or at camp.

I took a .357 buffalo bore 180 grain hardcast and punched a hole clean through more than 1/4" stainless steel plate from about 30 feet out of a 16" barrel rifle. That sold me. And I've been carrying the Model 66 in the woods ever since. Every other gun I had just bounced off and barely made a dent. The model 66 won't punch through 1/4" steel, but it makes one heck of a dent and I'm pretty confident it will give bear and cougar hide and bone a run for its money.

I know the .44 mags are even better, but I'd far rather carry around a K frame on my long hikes in the woods than an N frame. Especially since these guns are more crutches than likely be actually used.

thinking of changing my name to ENGINE.357

Yeah, there's something to be said for a big exit wound.

I'm a big .357 fan. In fact, I'm in the process of transitioning from a Beretta 9mm to a S&W 586 L-Comp for duty carry. It makes more sense in my environment and the type of work I do. Power and accuracy are more important to me than capacity.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Not only is the .357 magnum obsolete so is the .41 and .44 magnum.

With the advent of the .475 and .50 caliber magnums there is no "need" to use and carry anything less.

Whatever the .357, .41, and .44 calibers do the .475's and .50's will do better.

Wait! Even the .475's are obsolete what with the .50's being produced!

Heh! Heh!

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

A plug that fits within the spring of an auto's box magazine could be made to limit capacity, not unlike the plugs duck hunters use in shotgun's magazines.

I mean no disrespect , and I acknowledge the proposition you state comes up now and then from some very experienced shooters . Most members of this forum have had their firends and neighbors try to convince them , revolvers are obsolete . The .357 is the ideal round for 95 % of revolver duties , and the revolver is adequate for 100% of my hand gun needs even though I enjoy shooting auto loaders . It seems strange so many see the .357 as an inadequate man stopper , but think the .44 mag is big medicine for the large game and dangerous encounters . The .44 mag in the woods is a joke compared the "obsolete" 104 year old .30-06 .

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Idaho , Elmer and Milt

It will take one hell of a long time for the .357 to just shrivel up and die!!!

If the .357 is obsolete what is the .38 special? The .38 is 80% of what own/shoot and 100% of what I carry.

However if the Supreme Being said I could only have one caliber it would be .357. As I'm sure others have said, the .357 (followed closely by the .45 colt) are the most versatile cartridges ever made. How can something so useful ever be obsolete?

.357 will always be my first choise in a handgun cartridge if trouble calls. Although I currently carry a 6in. M14 Smith .38 for my duty gun(Adam-12 nostalgia and it really bothers the young guys) I have always considered the .357 Magnum to be the ideal law enforcement caliber if you can handle the recoil. As soon as I can pony up the bucks I am going to switch to a GP100 with night sights for work

"If the .357 is obsolete what is the .38 special?"

It's absolutely archaic! Sorta like me.

Discussions and theories such as this always bring many opinions to the forefront, and everyone knows that opinions are like ***holes....everybody has one. The .357 is a great and useful round and far from obsolete. In MY humble opinion, the 9mm and .40 S&W (Short & Weak) are the two most overrated rounds in the history of handguns. So there.

357 magnum obsolete? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Not in my book. The 357 and 10mm rule as far as I am concerned.

from a 1 7/8 inch barrel double tap lists a 125 at 1425. I really doubt that that is obsolete.

from a 1 7/8 inch barrel double tap lists a 125 at 1425. I really doubt that that is obsolete. I think that I am going to buy that m & p 340 after all! Do you guys think that occassional use of these bullets would be manageable?

No. I'm sure someone is the exception, but I shoot hard kicking guns and Remington 125 gr. SJHPs (R357M1) are too much for me out of my 360 PD. It's not a matter of being uncomfortable. It's that last time I fired five rounds, my right hand took a month and a half to recover. Speer SB .357 is likely to be the stoutest thing that will work and that's what I carry. YMMV

Years ago, when Ruger introduced the Redhawk, a college classmate of mine told me that the Model 29 was now obsolete. I thought that was an odd thing to say so I reverted to a strict definition of what "obsolete" meant to help prove my point: Here's what Merriam-Webster defines as obsolete:

1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned <an obsolete technology

I don't see the words "popular". One would have to determine a devices usage in order to decide whether it is obsolete. For instance, handguns in combat zones are used by the military primarily as backup weapons or more often issued to those very unlikely to engage in combat, so using that definition, would you say that all handguns are obsolete? Since the cartridge, and current weapons built to fire it, is commonly produced, purchased and used, then by definition it is not obsolete. Technology for revolvers continues, and they are used in a variety of environments. A better comparison would be a cartridge that is no longer offered or able to be manufactured. You may as well state that revolvers in general are obsolete, which I believe would be incorrect. Would you think the M2 heavy barrel .50 cal MG is obsolete? The US Army thought so, until operations in Afghanistan and Iraq began and EVERYONE wanted one. I won't even mention the .45 ACP since it would fire up a lot more opinions, but you may see my point. Sometimes "obsolete" may even be better.


RAK

These new bad guys are pretty tough. A little .357 would bounce off their chest like Superman's.

rj

Good morning
RIGHT...OBSELETE just like the 38-55 and the 45-70 and the 45 Colt...
Now lets figure.. the 1851 Colt has been about a long time. That .36 ball did in alot of critters and people. The 38 special continued the score. The .357 mag made it that much more lethal.
So when did the human anatomy suddenly alter to the point a .36 hole will not leak out as it always has ?
I like bigger holes... 41 mags are my FAVORITE revolvers and lever guns. But I have no concerns my 5 shot .36 bore is going to fail me today because someone who I have never met says so.

According to Webster's, obsolete means

1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned <an obsolete technology>

It's hard to argue the second definition. .357 Magnum revolvers use a technological base well over a century old. Fine. It can easily be argued that the technology works better today than in the 19th century. But let's give the naysayers a nod that any revolver is "old fashioned" by Webster's definition.

The first definition, however, clearly shows that the .357 Magnum is anything but obsolete. It is very much in use by many CCW users, hikers, ranchers, etc. With the variety of ammunition available today, the cartridge is more useful than in 1935. You can load a .357 with light(er) weight JHP's for anti-personnel defense, shot loads for snakes and pests, light WC or SWC loads for practice and plinking, heavyweight loads for deer hunting and protection against predators smaller than bear, etc. The round has plenty of usefulness. In short, the .357 Magnum is far from "obsolete."

I've got a nice 1911 that I'm willing to trade for a good (obsolete?) .357 Jframe.

REASON: I can carry a jframe ALL DAY in comfort, even in Arizona shorts/t-shirt, and IF I have to use it and there's a malfunction...I can simply (and immediatly) just pull the trigger again. No Failure to feed drills, etc. And, this can all be done while STILL in my sweatshirt pocket...if absolutely necessary. I can also carry it with 200grainers as a fine Wildlife Photography (backup protection) gun that should handle (pretty well) close range protection against most anything in Northern Arizona....from Mt.Lions to Pot Growers in the forest.

No, the .357 still lives in MY world.

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Made in USA - Buy American

I guess I will stop using my 3" 65 357 as a woods gun. Then I guess I will use my Ruger Vaquero 38-40, oh no! I guess it is obsolete too! I am sorry to have to quit hunting with my 30-30s and 250 savage and 25-35 and 38-55! Wow, I am out of touch! (But I do have a modern 40 S&W, the extra cylinder for the 38-40). My autos are 45s. Obsolete 1911s!

Oh no! This makes me sad. I did not know........now what do I do with all my 357s? I thought I saw some this weekend at the store....must have been something else.

in the woods for defence against humans i like .223. when jeeping in the low cascades i take an ar15. (usually a 20" service rilfe with a 1/7 fn/colt pencil barrel and a match trigger).

when walking around the woods (not hunting season) i carry a model 24V Savage (over and under rifle) in 20g and ......357 magnum.

My S&W Model 66 would be my "go to" gun, or that of my last stand. Pull trigger, it goes bang. ...and with such a wide and varying number of loadings, it's going to continue to be versatile.

I think the OP was merely trying to bring up a topic for thought and discussion. He probably knows by now that this is not the place for it.

Oh no! I guess carrying .38spl/.38spl+P rounds in a .357 is downright extinct!

if you were to use it on big bear always remember to "FILE THE FRONT SITE"

I think whoever said 357 mag is obsolete is a nutcase. I can't think of another single round that is so useful in so many instances. 44 mag may be better in the woods, and 40 S&W may be just as good in defense, but the 357 mag can handle both with the right load and the right barrel length. That's what you call versatility.

The internal combustion engine is even older, but still gets the job done. I'll keep my .357 and my V8, thank you.

Im older than the .357 mag by several years, and Have carried and used it in about every conceivable way. I still have a few, with the mod 19 S&W my goto and carry.

Long live the wheel gun and the .357 mag, It will last longer than I will!

I was going to reply but decided my time was better spent elsewhere.

Slight thread drift, but Slider, are you a WWII vet?

Over 4 years later, and the .357 magnum is STILL not obsolete!

Imagine that!

Well, anyone is free to argue anything that person wishes to argue, but about 40 years ago, after much debate and hand-wringing, it was decided by a few knowledgeable gun writers that if you could only have one handgun the 4 inch, medium frame, .357 Magnum would be the one to have.

Small enough to carry concealed, big enough to get good hits at long distance, full power ammo for certain jobs, less power for other jobs, wadcutters for practice, etc.

Even back then, the 1911 may well have made more sense as a strictly defense weapon, but the question posed was a "one gun for everything" question, and not just "what was best for defense."

The 1911 excelled at defense, and if tuned properly, at sports. On the other hand, it was not ideal for game animals. I don't see anything vastly different today that would make a duty size 9mm, .40 or .45 any better as a "one gun for everything" option.

Thus, while the M&P may very well be better for defense, it is still not the ideal hunting handgun.

And, while a 44 Magnum can be loaded to distinct power levels, the platform from which it is launched is just too big for concealed carry, in my opinion.

Therefore, after a great deal of consideration, if I could only have one, it would still be a .357 Magnum, 4 inch, medium frame.

Make mine a 686 Plus Mountain Gun, which carries like a Model 66, has a round butt for concealment, and has one more shot. Here we are 40 years on, and the answer is the same as it was in 1974.

Beat me to it......... LOL...just saw how old this thread is..... he beat me by over 4 years....

Lots of rounds out there that will do a better job on a specific target than the .357........ but like a concealed carry gun......you have to have it with you when you need it....... all day every day......

So ya, the .357 might be a compromise...... but I will have my 3" 66 or 3" 60-10 on me if I ever need it.......

If I want a little more how about a 4" round butt 686 will handle any .357 load w/o a problem and not a problem to carry all day......want even more power from a .357 how about a Winchester Trapper in .357 or Ruger 77/357.

[QUOTE=flop-shank;1250926]Anyone price .44 magnum ammo lately?

Yep. 25 cents a round from my re-loader. lead, powder, primer and cases which I already have.