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Old 01-09-2010, 07:56 PM
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Default .357 Magnum is obsolete

Someone argued this point to me the other day.

The argument was that if you were looking for a woods gun or something to defend against predators, the .44 magnum is a better choice, whether it's a S&W 29, Ruger Redhawk, etc. If the recoil of the 44 is too much for some shooters, they can use downloaded rounds that are manageable but still more effective than the .357.

If you are looking for defense against humans, rounds like the .40 S&W and .45ACP are better, because they have plenty of knockdown power without the recoil, flash, or muzzle blast of the .357 magnum. This is not a revolver vs. semiauto thread, but a Glock 22 will hold 16 rounds vs. 6 rounds of .357 in a S&W 686 and still only weighs a little over half as much as the 686.

What do you think? I am not saying that I agree with this argument, and I will always be fond of the .357 magnum, but I find myself perhaps agreeing to an extent. If I am in the woods I take my .44, which I can load with anything from light to hot 44 specials up to magnums. For civilian (or even LEO) self-defense, I don't feel like the .357 magnum does anything that the .40 S&W can't do, with less recoil, blast and noise. You could argue that the 45ACP does not have enough penetration, or that the 9mm doesn't have enough power, but the 40 seems to do well enough.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:03 PM
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I better give away all my .357s then
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:05 PM
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I see the point, but you could argue just the other way....

While a 40 or 45 is not enough for a woods gun, and a 44 mag is too much to carry for a daily protection weapon, 357 magnum can do either or both. I think that a 357 would do much better against creatures in the woods than a 40 or 45, and being realistic, who carries a 44 magnum on the streets daily? The 357 may not be the best for either, but adequate for both. Not obsolete, efficient
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:08 PM
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.357 mag will take out most men or beast in North America but yet is still small enough for everyday carry. Hardly obsolete.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:11 PM
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Well, I guess my 1000 rounds of ammo is junk, any one want it?
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:13 PM
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Well, I guess my 1000 rounds of ammo is junk, any one want it?
PM incoming to send all 357 ammo and firearms. I will dispose of them safely and humanely.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:17 PM
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Thank you very much, I just knew all that guns and stuff was no good, I am very thrilled that some one will junk it out
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:20 PM
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When a writer for one of the gun rags can't think of anything else, they pick a popular cartridge and say it is obsolete. Today it's the .357 Mag, tomorrow the .30-06.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aterry33 View Post
I don't feel like the .357 magnum does anything that the .40 S&W can't do
So the .40 S&W can generate over 1000ft/lbs of energy????

(Energy from max load data of 125gr XTP with 22grs of H110 @41,400CUP, generating 1966ft/s, which works out to about 1072ft*lbs)
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:45 PM
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I call Hokum and Sheep Dip.

The .357 in a K-Mag is about the best woods / belt gun we have here in the North East.

This one goes out often.

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Old 01-09-2010, 09:07 PM
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It's a ridiculous notion that several generations of lawmen and sportsmen are/were using an obsolete cartridge and gun for the last 70-something years.

Please explain why the .357 Magnum has been, and still IS the best-selling magnum caliber by far?
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:16 PM
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Oh,
I think that authority was absolutely right!
'Cause everybody knows it doesn't hurt getting 10 ringed by a .45/70, .30-40 Krag, or .303 Brit either. What with them being even older and more feeble and all?
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:22 PM
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Backup depository for all .357s and ammo! I only have 5 of them so a few more will keep them company
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:27 PM
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Horse Hockey!

While the .44 can be loaded heavier and hotter, one always doesn't need that much power. The .44 is also going to require a large framed revolver while a .357 can be had in large, medium and small framed lighter weight guns. While the .40S&W and .45ACP can be used for personal defense they don't offer the versatility of the .357 Magnum. The .357 can be loaded with snakeshot, high velocity lightweight bullets, and deep penetrating 180gr bullets moving at very respectable velocities. One doesn't have to worry about slide speeds, changing out recoil springs or anything else that may effect reliability when changing loads. Yeah it can have flash and bang when loaded hot but .40 can also bark and be snappy. I've got .44's, .45's, .40's and a lot of .357's. The .357's aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:07 AM
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Clearly an 870 with 0 Buck or a 45/70 (I saw a neat 45/70 double rifle the other day!) is the answer to serious social problems at short range.
Why take a handgun at all?
Why take a 40 S&W when you could take a 10mm (and I quite frequently do take a 10mm).
I have a P239 in 40, it usually is at home.
Why do I usually carry a .357, because I can conceal my 640 under most anything I wear, which is a problem here in the summer. So most of the year it’s a 640 or a 60-10 3”.
These things have to come down to practicality sooner or later.

If there was even a slight chance I would encounter a Grizzly I would carry appropriate arms, but there is no chance.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aterry33 View Post
If you are looking for defense against humans, rounds like the .40 S&W and .45ACP are better, because they have plenty of knockdown power without the recoil, flash, or muzzle blast of the .357 magnum. This is not a revolver vs. semiauto thread, but a Glock 22 will hold 16 rounds vs. 6 rounds of .357 in a S&W 686 and still only weighs a little over half as much as the 686.
If you need 16 rounds of .357 Magnum to stop a threat you shouldn't be carrying a handgun, get a AK-47 or AR-15.

As for only 6 rounds and "excessive" weight, there are now .357 Magnum revolvers which carry 8 rounds and weigh only 27oz. Hardly double the weight of a Glock 22 which weighs 23oz empty. Yes it will hold 16 rounds but then again, go back to what I started this post with.

A note about the 40 S&W or .45 Auto being better against human targets than the .357 Magnum, all the data I've read says NOT....
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:03 AM
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I love hi-cap's, one can miss fast and often! Sure the odd exception occur's now and again, but if a trained shooter cannot solve the problem with six round's, it wont get solved with seventeen. The 125gr JHP in .357 is the round that is the standard for one shot stop's. They dident call it the lightning bolt for nothing!
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:55 AM
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It is a conceit of the wheelman to expect high capacity equals propensity to spray and pray.
I have been a fan of the Browning High Power since before most police started carrying semiautos. I also own a Beretta 92FS. In either case, I count on aimed fire to help the 9mm perform, not volume.
That having been said, I am perfectly confident in the Ruger SP101 3" 357mag, and it's five rounds of DoubleTap 125gn Bonded Core JHP that is in my belt right now.

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Old 01-10-2010, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aterry33 View Post
Someone argued this point to me the other day.

The argument was that if you were looking for a woods gun or something to defend against predators, the .44 magnum is a better choice, whether it's a S&W 29, Ruger Redhawk, etc. If the recoil of the 44 is too much for some shooters, they can use downloaded rounds that are manageable but still more effective than the .357.

If you are looking for defense against humans, rounds like the .40 S&W and .45ACP are better, because they have plenty of knockdown power without the recoil, flash, or muzzle blast of the .357 magnum. This is not a revolver vs. semiauto thread, but a Glock 22 will hold 16 rounds vs. 6 rounds of .357 in a S&W 686 and still only weighs a little over half as much as the 686.

What do you think? I am not saying that I agree with this argument, and I will always be fond of the .357 magnum, but I find myself perhaps agreeing to an extent. If I am in the woods I take my .44, which I can load with anything from light to hot 44 specials up to magnums. For civilian (or even LEO) self-defense, I don't feel like the .357 magnum does anything that the .40 S&W can't do, with less recoil, blast and noise. You could argue that the 45ACP does not have enough penetration, or that the 9mm doesn't have enough power, but the 40 seems to do well enough.
Sir, the guy makes some good points, but they don't make the .357 obsolete. There's still a need for revolvers with more power than a .38, but less bulk than a .44.

FWIW, I'm somewhat conflicted about the .357. I like its accuracy, versatility, ubiquity, and that some very fine guns are chambered for it. I do not like the noise and recoil of full loads--if I'm going to deal with that level of drama, I want a bigger bullet.

JMHO.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
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When a writer for one of the gun rags can't think of anything else, they pick a popular cartridge and say it is obsolete. Today it's the .357 Mag, tomorrow the .30-06.

No, that was yesterday. Col. Charles Askins wrote it, and when I asked why, he said that stuff like that riles up the readers, who write to the editor to complain. Thus, the editors knew that his stuff was being read. He was serious too!

But someone will probably recycle the idea, like one guy does with his WWII and Old West material.

I think that the .30/06 with modern loads is better than it's ever been. And I like the .357 Magnum for a wide variety of uses, esp. if I can also load .38 ammo when the full .357 power isn't needed.

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Old 01-10-2010, 09:25 AM
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I usually get started on something about the time it becomes obsolete. I have an affinity for obsolete guns, cars, motorcycles, radios, tractors. Since I have started buying .357 magnum revolvers, it may be a sign that the OP is right and they are indeed now obsolete. Obsolete just means "the crowd" has moved on to something different. Different doesn't always mean better and the logic of "crowds" is sometimes difficult to fathom. The results of recent elections speak volumes on the wisdom of crowds.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:55 AM
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I agree with you Beemerphile.

That is why I like the 357 sig, 357 Maximum, 357 Mag, 38-55, 38 Super, 30/30winchester, 25-06, 220 Swift, 222 etc.

I love the obsolete rounds. By the time they get to that stage they are just right for me to jump in, get nice pieces from the shooters that don't like them anymore because they are "obsolete" and really use them. Yes they are niche pieces to most, but to me they are fun!
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:39 AM
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Default 357 as obsolete? Hmmmmm....

Fact: 357 revolvers are the most versitile (sic) weapons out there...can handle everything from 38 short Colt, shotshells, all the way up to armor piercing 357 rounds.

Fact: 357's can be had in everything from J frame Smiths up to something that can only be mounted in the back bed of a large pickup (so to speak)

Without getting into the semiauto/revolver feud, most defensive situtations occur in just a few feet with only a few rounds fired. A 357 (and even 38+P) with proper loads are a sure stopper.

I often carry a Charter Arms (1980's) Tracker 357 snubby during road trips and on hikes in the woods and have complete confidence in it. A "survival" gun, if you will. Today, I will be packing my M28-2 4". (loaded with Remington 158 SJHP's)

As far as obsolete, I think if it ever came down to it, the 357 Magnum would probably be around long, long after the others have fallen.

No, it's not going to stop everything (what does?) but what it does it does very very well and has done so since 1935.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:39 AM
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The 357 Magnum isn't obsolete at my house.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:46 AM
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Rubbish...
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:50 AM
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People tell me my 72 3/4 ton Power wagon is obsolete too. I just tell them they don't know what they are talking about.

People will always pick the example that tips the scale towards the point they are trying to make.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:18 PM
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Anyone price .44 magnum ammo lately?




















Touche!
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aterry33 View Post
Someone argued this point to me the other day.

The argument was that if you were looking for a woods gun or something to defend against predators, the .44 magnum is a better choice, whether it's a S&W 29, Ruger Redhawk, etc. If the recoil of the 44 is too much for some shooters, they can use downloaded rounds that are manageable but still more effective than the .357.

If you are looking for defense against humans, rounds like the .40 S&W and .45ACP are better, because they have plenty of knockdown power without the recoil, flash, or muzzle blast of the .357 magnum. This is not a revolver vs. semiauto thread, but a Glock 22 will hold 16 rounds vs. 6 rounds of .357 in a S&W 686 and still only weighs a little over half as much as the 686.

What do you think? I am not saying that I agree with this argument, and I will always be fond of the .357 magnum, but I find myself perhaps agreeing to an extent. If I am in the woods I take my .44, which I can load with anything from light to hot 44 specials up to magnums. For civilian (or even LEO) self-defense, I don't feel like the .357 magnum does anything that the .40 S&W can't do, with less recoil, blast and noise. You could argue that the 45ACP does not have enough penetration, or that the 9mm doesn't have enough power, but the 40 seems to do well enough.
It would appear your debate opponent doesn't understand the term, "obsolete."
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:11 AM
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I'd have not even argued with this obviously ignorant individual, I'd have laughed and told him that he's a fool(or something worse) and left it at that. And comparing the 357 to the 40 is friggin laughable, the 40 is a unecessary round these days. When it was introduced it did fill a void but with todays bullets it's uneeded. The 9mm or 45 will do the same job.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:57 AM
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Default For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

What this means in this context is that if the .40 is more powerful, it will have more recoil - simple phisics. To try to fault a cartridge for having both too much recoil and too little power shows a lack of understanding. Education today is clearly lacking.

To say something is obsolete implies there is something else that gives equal or better results faster, cheaper, etc. and that something else is both more widely distributed and accepted. What pistol cartridge is more widely distributed and accepted than the .357 magnum?
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:06 PM
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I can see how number crunchers might make a case for this based on ammo sales.
Not an accurate assessment due to lack of available ammo in the recent past, LEO use of automatics and handloaders.

I can see how number crunchers might make a case for this based on revolver sales.
Without actually checking, I would bet that comparing sales of new revolver vs automatics purchased for HD or SD today with numbers from 1960's or 1970's would indicate a notable decrease in revolver sales.
This is thanks mainly to better powders and quality control in ammo manufacturing, high capacity magazines and calibers such as the 40 S&W, 10mm and the 357 Sig. I believe that there are more quality automatics available at reasonable prices to choose from today.
If a depedable 357 Magnum auto-pistol could be had at a reasonable price, the story might be a little different.

If I had to be forced into choosing only handgun caliber, it would be the 357 Magnum. It is my very favorite handgun caliber. My 686 protects my home. But, away from home I bring a 40 or 45, higher capacity, pistol. I've also condidered a 357 Sig but, not yet.

Not obsolete, just less popular with today's generation. IMHO, it's due in large part to a drop in the popularity of revolvers as compared to automatics used for HD, SD and by LEO's .

Oh well, maybe some will want to rid themselves of 357 revolvers. More for me.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:18 PM
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I better give away all my .357s then
So - do you need my address to ship them to???
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:31 PM
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Since the 357 is dead I should'nt have any problems getting all those neat little 3" S&W ones I want then.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:40 PM
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.357 mag will take out most men or beast in North America but yet is still small enough for everyday carry. Hardly obsolete.
I agree, but hate to use it on the big bears to save my but.
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  #35  
Old 01-11-2010, 02:45 PM
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.357 Magnum is obsolete .357 Magnum is obsolete .357 Magnum is obsolete .357 Magnum is obsolete .357 Magnum is obsolete  
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I don't care as I'm obsolete as well.
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  #36  
Old 01-11-2010, 03:29 PM
44wheelman 44wheelman is offline
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Remind me again, how many rounds of .44 does a J frame hold? 0?
So the .44 may be ballistically superior as a hunting weapon, try dragging one around all day every day.

And the same argument could be made for obsoleting all automatic cartridges except the 10mm. & Oh wait, I can shoot 45 Colts from my 454 Casull, better make the 44 obsolete too. Especially since I can shoot 44spcls from my 445 Supermag.

Lets get rid of .22's while we're at it, they're kinda whimpy too.

Ooops, wait, bullets & powder are sold by the pound...nevermind.

Just silly.
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  #37  
Old 01-11-2010, 03:56 PM
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No modern cartridges are really obsolete. You can hunt with .303 Savage or .250 savage. The 30-30 isnt obsolete. A Ruger Blackhawk in .45 colt with 300gr bullets will shoot clean through a Elk and thats 100 years old. When people talk about obsolete maybe they mean old fashion. Tell them well meet them in the hills with our 357s they can bring their 40s and well pick them off at 150 yards.
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  #38  
Old 01-11-2010, 06:10 PM
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I have roughly a dozen handguns in .357, all Smith&Wesson.....and one rifle, a Marlin1894. I find it a very versatile, accurate, and "do anything" (well, within some reason) round that is easily obtained (and way moreso if you include 38Special), inexpensive if you reload, very accurate, not too much recoil, effective for personal defense and up to deer-sized game. Are there better rounds for hunting? Yeah, probably. Are there better rounds for PD? Possibly there are some that are the equal of the .357, but none that are superior.

The 44 Magnum is unsuitable for daily carry, Dirty Harry notwithstanding, albeit better for hunting. The 40 S&W and the 45acp are not generally considered good hunting rounds. The .357 does it all.
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  #39  
Old 01-11-2010, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
I don't care as I'm obsolete as well.
I'm obsolete too, so don't feel alone. I'm keeping my 357's too. I had a guy tell me that my 10 gauge was obsolete, and that I could get the same performance from a 12 gauge. He's probably right, but that 10 gauge is still real cool. I guess there's a lot of opinions out there.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:08 PM
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so who will be the first one that says that to let me shoot at them at 200 yards with my 4 inch 27-2 ? thats what i thought!
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  #41  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:26 AM
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He's right. The .357 Magnum is obsolete. It's so obsolete, in fact, that in the past decade, there's been a successful autopistol cartridge invented to attempt to duplicate it's capabilities (.357 Sig). One that is enjoying a measure of success, by the way.
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:56 AM
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Has loads from mild to wild.
Has Revolver,Rifle and Semi-Auto variants for public use.

Yeah I can see how might think its on its way out.

I'll even let you send me a few to dispose of ..to save you the embarrasment of having to deal with a old obsolete weapon...
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2010, 05:12 AM
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The .357 obsolete.....Nonsense.


The .40 is okay for a pistol, but lot's of folks prefer a revolver for countless reasons. Many people, including many seniors, don't care for the recoil or expense of the .44s and higher calibers.

The .357/.38 range of options, available in any number of fine revolvers will continue to have a market for as far into the future as I can see.
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2010, 07:12 AM
Tom 38 Tom 38 is offline
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If you need more then 6 rounds of 357, then you are in real trouble.
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2010, 09:02 AM
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I am not sure I can get the name of the book right, it was written in the early to mid 90's about real world street shootings and they placed the .357 magnum at the top with one shot stops to the torso. Now days there are other calibers like the .357 sig and the .40 S&W has been around longer now and the book doesn't translate into total gospel but it is also hard to ignore the data of the .357 magnum and it's effectiveness with certain loadings. The .357 magnum may be obsolete with Law enforcement on a grand scale as a uniformed carry item but as a whole as a cartridge and it's usage all-around, I would say- No.
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2010, 01:08 PM
4inch357 4inch357 is offline
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Uh oh; I picked up a 27-2 and a 357Mag carbine barrel for my Encore last year and deer hunted with them in IN this last season - looks like I messed up!
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2010, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
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Uh oh; I picked up a 27-2 and a 357Mag carbine barrel for my Encore last year and deer hunted with them in IN this last season - looks like I messed up!
Sir, while cartridge fads come and go, deer remain available in the same old standard models.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

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Old 01-12-2010, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
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I agree, but hate to use it on the big bears to save my but.
Key word. "Most."
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2010, 09:05 PM
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I've been to a lot of shootings over the last 34 years. Rifles, shotguns and handguns, you name it. Nothing and I mean nothing in the realm of handguns has been as devastating as the .357 Magnum 125 grain JHP. Make no mistake, other guns have killed more, especially the 9mm, but as far as just opening up a can of whoop *** on a human body, the .357 is hard to beat. YMMV.
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  #50  
Old 01-12-2010, 09:22 PM
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Hell yes it has been obsoleted...most useless cartridge of all time. Wasn't it Dan Wesson that pushed it to the forefront. Guys like Elmer, Bill Jordan, that other Border Patrol Guy...Skeeter somethin'....and all them others that shined-on about how the Red Gods smiled down from above about that cartridge...

Well about 3 decades ago the .32 H&R Magnum came out. That was the game changer ~ right there. No more need for that other magnum....


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