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  #51  
Old 02-04-2010, 02:15 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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First off, many "ammunition failures" have nothing to do with the bullet performance or lack thereof. If you don't hit vital areas, it doesn't matter what you're using-if you rule out tactical nukes.

Secondly, I believe that when Mas Ayoob wrote about a progression from the 147 gr 9mm to .40, he also commented that many of those departments that stayed with lighter weight (+P?) 9mm bullets stayed with the 9. Some departments went back to a lighter weight bullet and decided to stay with the 9mm.

The performance of the 125 gr JHP .357 Magnum load has demonstrated that a light for caliber, high velocity round can be extremely effective. A combination of bullet design and load development can deliver similar results in any other caliber.

Last edited by WR Moore; 02-04-2010 at 02:19 PM.
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  #52  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:43 PM
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My 2 cents.. I am still trying to figure out which is the best load to carry also. One thing I disagree with is the statement that size/weight of the bullet is king. A simple law of physics from high school says that Force F = M (mass) x V2 (velocity squared) Since velocity is squared the faster the projectile can travel the force goes up much faster than using a larger bullet.
I will explain the math using no units.
Force =a mass of 10 and a velocity off 10 = 10x(10x10) = 1000 units
If you double the mass to 20; Force = 20 x(10x10) = 2000 units
But if you double the velocity; Force = 10X (20x20)= 4000 units
So velocity is really king. I am not a ballistics expert or even a good journeyman. I am just looking at the math. SO I don't understand why a lighter bullet (say 115gr) going significantly faster than a subsonic 147gr bullet has less penetration. It should have more. Please help me with this. I must be missing something. Unless when we mean penetration we really mean the damage done by a larger object when it enters a cavity. That is a different science altogether. Somewhere in the past couple of month I read a really interesting paper on stopping power, hydro shock and penetration. I wish I could find it. Anyway.. I remain a learner on this subject and I just carry good factory fresh ammo that is recommended to do the job of ever needed.
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  #53  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:01 AM
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There is a whole lot more to the science of terminal ballistics than just one aspect or focus point. Lots of variables must come together in the successful development of a good performing bullet and then on to loadings for that bullet. There are many published articles and books on terminal ballistics along with a ton of info on the internet. Some is good, some bad, and some written with hidden agendas. Read all you can and form your own opinions.

Velocity alone is not the end all in defensive ammo. From all my study and profession, I have found no scientific evidence that a bullet at handgun velocities can shock the body. A handgun bullet works as a cutting implement that destroys tissue. Bullets that expand, jacketed hollow point, are the most effective duty/defensive bullet designs as they disrupt more tissue resulting in more blood loss to stop an attacker.

A light weight/high velocity JHP may over expand and not reach deap enough into the body's vital organs despite its velocity and kinetic energy. A slower/heavier bullet will have the momentum and mass/sectional density to continue to plow through clothing, bone, muscle, etc and reach the vitals. In the past JHP bullets were highly dependent on being velocity driven to expand. The latest high tech bullet designs are not dependent on velocity to perform. In selecting ammo for serious purposes penetration is tops on my list followed by expansion. If a certain loading has adequate penetration, consistent expansion, accuracy/pistol functioning, and performs well through heavy clothing/light barriers, its velocity is of no real concern to me. Bill
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  #54  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:01 AM
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[QUOTE=38-44HD45;1275847]David, I think some of our "senior" writers like Chuck are sometimes guilty of being frozen in time with respect to advances in bullet design, load efficiency, and the like. Chuck would fit that category. Since I'm something of an old guy, I try not to hold it against them.

I agree,sir. It's a very prevalent thing with those writers who don't keep up with the advances. I can't hold it against Taylor either.He's the only guy I know besides myself who's crazy enough to shoot himself to see if his vest worked.
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  #55  
Old 07-03-2012, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbliss57 View Post
My 2 cents.. I am still trying to figure out which is the best load to carry also. One thing I disagree with is the statement that size/weight of the bullet is king. A simple law of physics from high school says that Force F = M (mass) x V2 (velocity squared) Since velocity is squared the faster the projectile can travel the force goes up much faster than using a larger bullet.
I will explain the math using no units.
Force =a mass of 10 and a velocity off 10 = 10x(10x10) = 1000 units
If you double the mass to 20; Force = 20 x(10x10) = 2000 units
But if you double the velocity; Force = 10X (20x20)= 4000 units
So velocity is really king. I am not a ballistics expert or even a good journeyman. I am just looking at the math. SO I don't understand why a lighter bullet (say 115gr) going significantly faster than a subsonic 147gr bullet has less penetration. It should have more. Please help me with this. I must be missing something. Unless when we mean penetration we really mean the damage done by a larger object when it enters a cavity. That is a different science altogether. Somewhere in the past couple of month I read a really interesting paper on stopping power, hydro shock and penetration. I wish I could find it. Anyway.. I remain a learner on this subject and I just carry good factory fresh ammo that is recommended to do the job of ever needed.
Google "sectional density" for the answer to your question. There is more to the physics than velocity.

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West

Last edited by Out West; 07-03-2012 at 12:14 AM.
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  #56  
Old 07-03-2012, 02:19 AM
ElectroMotive ElectroMotive is offline
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Mass and momentum are what is being neglected..

For the record Dallas, Tx PD started running 9mm as issued in 1988'ish. They used the 115fgr Hornady XTP and had issues with bullets not expanding (clogging up with clothing) or shallow penetration. They then moved to the Remington +P+ 115gr JHPand the problems persisted. In 1996 they did two things, they authorized the .357sig, and they changed their 9mm duty load to 147gr Winchester Ranger SXT, and later to Ranger Talon. The problems have gone away except for some old cops tales of woe about 9mm.

Contrary to what certain magazine and book writers will tell you, even in the 80's 147gr JHPs did just as well (or poorly) as bulkets in other weights.
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  #57  
Old 07-06-2012, 11:50 AM
Rich K. Rich K. is offline
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Sorry to say David but you are a bit mistaken on your thinking here. The term over penetration is a valid concearn to the responsable shooter and refers to a shot going completely through your assailant and possibly putting innocents in the area in danger. Defense rounds expand out for two reasons, first to cause extra tissue damage inside your attacker than compared to a FMJ round to better stop them and to stop over penatration so the round isn't as likely to go through your assailant, into a building behind him, through the dry wall and into some poor child. So yes over penetration is something to be worried about.
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Originally Posted by David Sinko View Post
I'll go out on a limb here and say that there is no such thing as "over penetration." The term itself makes it sound like complete penetration of your adversary is a bad thing, from a ballistic point of view. The best way to stop your assailant who is trying to kill you is by shooting THROUGH him. That means that we'd like the bullet to expand at least a little bit and we want one hole in and another hole going out. This belief that a bullet must stay inside the adversary to "dump all its energy" is complete nonsense and is the purvey of gun writers, police chiefs and lawyers. Being concerned about being sued is one thing, but advocating the carry of less than effective ammo for the explicit purpose of not being sued is another matter entirely.

Does this mean that we want to go around carrying ball ammo? No, not at all. In this day and age we have bonded cores (Speer Gold Dot) and homogenous construction (Barnes XPB) which should expand at least a little bit and retain enough weight to punch on through. In my experience, many of our better loadings today simply lack velocity. It's unfortunate that we have some of the best technology and it's being defeated by watered down ammo. From what I've seen out on the street, we're far better served by jacketed flat points than most of the hollow points we have nowadays.

I will concur with the laws of physics and momentum in that all else being equal, heavier is almost always better.

Dave Sinko
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  #58  
Old 12-04-2015, 07:46 PM
Phil Weber Phil Weber is offline
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Default Comparing 9 mm ammo

My primary carry is a Glock 23, .40 cal. I also have a Glock 43, 9 mm. My comments relate to the latter handgun. I use 9 mm 115 grain +P FMJ primarily for practice on the range. For personal protection I use 9 mm 124 grain +P JHP. I've owned the Glock 43 for six months and have fired approximately 1,500 rounds on the range and in the field. I have noticed little or no difference in the performance of the two aforementioned loads. Comments?
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  #59  
Old 12-04-2015, 09:07 PM
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ANY bullet will work if..........................

1. it has enough fps/energy
2. expands...... (optional )
3. hits an organ to cause enough blood loss
4. does enough damage to prevent movement
5. lastly......... is just visible !! (revolvers)

I have shot9mm 110 to 147gr bullets and it just comes down to what YOU feel comfortable with.
Nothing worse than having a load in your weapon that you do not have trust in.
To some a +P+ load is what works for them, while there are others that are happy with just a standard 9mm loading.
If you can only hit a target with just one out of twelve shots.......
you need to fine tune every thing a little more...............
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  #60  
Old 12-04-2015, 09:28 PM
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My experience is with full-size pistols, and standard

FMJ loads. For SD purposes, I prefer 147 grain, as

bullet speed won't matter, but weight might make a

difference. For target, 124 grain is preferable, for my taste.

115 grain is OK for general practice, and also for distance

shooting.

The S&W 3914 is a fine pistol, but I would experiment, and

see what works best for you. The shorter barrel and lighter

weight are going to shoot differently than a full size gun.

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  #61  
Old 12-15-2015, 01:37 AM
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It doesn't matter how fast it is, the design, the weight, the material, the jacket, the lube etc. It only matters what happens when it gets there. And this is the biggest secret of the ammo industry.

And the manufactureres and the firearms media are doing everything they can to keep that secret.
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  #62  
Old 12-15-2015, 08:42 AM
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It doesn't matter how fast it is, the design, the weight, the material, the jacket, the lube etc. It only matters what happens when it gets there...
The latter is hugely affected by the former, no?
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  #63  
Old 12-15-2015, 09:23 AM
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Default A few other reasons....

I prefer 124 grain and up. The 125 grain bullet is a good .38 bullet and I seen no reason to go lighter than that, while velocity is still higher than a similar barreled .38 +p load. It's good for penetration as well. I prefer the slower recoil over the snappy 115 grain loads. Some powders work better for a really gentle shooting session.
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  #64  
Old 12-15-2015, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
The latter is hugely affected by the former, no?
That's my point, we don't know. There is no Underwriter Laboratories for cartridge performance. No standards. Just opinions based on nothing. All we have are a bunch of YouTube "scientists" who brew up a batch of gel in their bathtub and put grandma's old denim underwear in front of it and shoot.
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  #65  
Old 12-15-2015, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbliss57 View Post
My 2 cents.. I am still trying to figure out which is the best load to carry also. One thing I disagree with is the statement that size/weight of the bullet is king. A simple law of physics from high school says that Force F = M (mass) x V2 (velocity squared) Since velocity is squared the faster the projectile can travel the force goes up much faster than using a larger bullet.
I will explain the math using no units.
Force =a mass of 10 and a velocity off 10 = 10x(10x10) = 1000 units
If you double the mass to 20; Force = 20 x(10x10) = 2000 units
But if you double the velocity; Force = 10X (20x20)= 4000 units
So velocity is really king. I am not a ballistics expert or even a good journeyman. I am just looking at the math. SO I don't understand why a lighter bullet (say 115gr) going significantly faster than a subsonic 147gr bullet has less penetration. It should have more. Please help me with this. I must be missing something. Unless when we mean penetration we really mean the damage done by a larger object when it enters a cavity. That is a different science altogether. Somewhere in the past couple of month I read a really interesting paper on stopping power, hydro shock and penetration. I wish I could find it. Anyway.. I remain a learner on this subject and I just carry good factory fresh ammo that is recommended to do the job of ever needed.
Those are really good questions and a good example that we shouldn't just automatically accept what we hear, or even read.

I'm going to use a few things that I think are true. If you piece this together with a lot of other stuff, you might get an answer.

Gelatin block tests show the heavier slugs getting better penetration. This depends on both bullets expanding to about the same size.

The formula works in a medium of little resistance, like air, but traveling through a semi solid other factors come into play. Like pushing watery organs and flesh aside plus more friction and the effects of penetrating different materials, skin, organs, muscle as well as expanding the bullet and making a bigger hole.

Hunters of very large game use heavy, 'solid' bullets for the greater penetration. Not that they don't deform at all, they mostly blunt instead of 'mushroom'.

Bottom line. 12" is given as a the needed penetration to wound deeply in a human. It doesn't matter a whole lot what the weight/mass of the bullet is as long as it makes that requirement.

This is all opinion, not gospel and I'd welcome any additions but I prefer the 124 and 147 grain jhp type bullet going fast enough for them to perform properly. Better makes like the 'Gold Dot' are very predictable in terminal performance.
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  #66  
Old 12-15-2015, 01:19 PM
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I'm partial to the heavier bullets. Most of my friends think I'm wrong. I will say this; when weight is an issue for carrying comfort, I will carry a 10 rd. magazine stoked with 115 grain projectiles as opposed to a 15 rounder loaded with 147s.
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  #67  
Old 12-16-2015, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbliss57 View Post
My 2 cents.. I am still trying to figure out which is the best load to carry also. One thing I disagree with is the statement that size/weight of the bullet is king. A simple law of physics from high school says that Force F = M (mass) x V2 (velocity squared) Since velocity is squared the faster the projectile can travel the force goes up much faster than using a larger bullet.
...
Sorry, but that's wrong.

F=MA
Force = Mass x Acceleration

KE = 0.5MV^2
Kinetic Energy = One-Half x Mass x Velocity x Velocity

P = MV
Momentum = Mass x Velocity

SD = M/D^2/7000
Sectional Density = Mass (in grains) / Diameter (in inches) / Diameter (in inches) / 7000


DESIGN IS KING. The bullet design must be matched to the cartridge and target. Design cannot be captured by the basic physics equations and must be verified against a useful test protocol.

Last edited by V0OBWxZS16; 12-16-2015 at 01:30 AM. Reason: Diameter squared, not diameter, for sectional density
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  #68  
Old 12-16-2015, 07:10 AM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecRacer View Post
That's my point, we don't know. There is no Underwriter Laboratories for cartridge performance. No standards. Just opinions based on nothing. All we have are a bunch of YouTube "scientists" who brew up a batch of gel in their bathtub and put grandma's old denim underwear in front of it and shoot.
I agree there's less definitive information than desired, but what about FBI protocols as afar as standards, and dedicated groups or individuals like Brassfetcher and DocGKR for properly performed, dispassionate testing?
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sinko View Post
Wow, that stuff costs $77.40 a box?!?! My Academy just gave me four boxes of that same load, just to get rid of it! My goal (as soon as the weather becomes more reasonable) is to chronograph it, then pull some bullets and see what I can get by handloading it. I'll then compare it to the 147 gr. bullets in the 9mm. My only concern is that the Hydra-Shok would come apart at maximum velocity before it penetrates.

A quick glance at my Midway catalog tells me that the only two "factories" that are loading 147 gr. 9mm bullets with any good velocity are Buffalo Bore and Double Tap, with 1175 and 1135 FPS quoted. Both loads use the Gold Dot and I'd prefer either of these to any of the lighter bullet weight loads.

Dave Sinko
I believe underwood is pushing a gold dot at about 1100 fps. I believe buffalo bore changed to bullets that arent as good quality or so ive heard.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbliss57 View Post
My 2 cents.. I am still trying to figure out which is the best load to carry also. One thing I disagree with is the statement that size/weight of the bullet is king. A simple law of physics from high school says that Force F = M (mass) x V2 (velocity squared) Since velocity is squared the faster the projectile can travel the force goes up much faster than using a larger bullet.
I will explain the math using no units.
Force =a mass of 10 and a velocity off 10 = 10x(10x10) = 1000 units
If you double the mass to 20; Force = 20 x(10x10) = 2000 units
But if you double the velocity; Force = 10X (20x20)= 4000 units
So velocity is really king. I am not a ballistics expert or even a good journeyman. I am just looking at the math. SO I don't understand why a lighter bullet (say 115gr) going significantly faster than a subsonic 147gr bullet has less penetration. It should have more. Please help me with this. I must be missing something. Unless when we mean penetration we really mean the damage done by a larger object when it enters a cavity. That is a different science altogether. Somewhere in the past couple of month I read a really interesting paper on stopping power, hydro shock and penetration. I wish I could find it. Anyway.. I remain a learner on this subject and I just carry good factory fresh ammo that is recommended to do the job of ever needed.
What comes to mind is an old video of a corvette in a high speed chase rear ending a semi and disintegrating. The semi was practically unharmed. Now imagine a semi going the same speed, im sure the results would be much differebt for the semi that was rear ended
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:50 PM
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The latter is hugely affected by the former, no?
We don't know.
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:23 PM
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Ah, the old argument... Supersonic BB or the sub-sonic bowling ball.

Me... I like the supersonic bowling ball.
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:50 PM
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We do know a lot about terminal performance from hunting, not just self defense. Heavier bullets for caliber and better sectional density lead to superior penetration, as far as weight is concerned with bullets, when isolated from other aspects, we more than understand the importance of this. When bullet design stays the same, heavier weight bullets are chosen for penetration, this is age old. Weight and sectional density matter a lot, and you can't simply sweep it under the carpet.

The 115 grain hollow point bullet was based on an extremely flawed theory in the 1970's and early 80's based on the theory that temporary cavities from bullet shock caused damage, and lead to stoppages in attacks. This lead to the flawed idea that maximizing temporary cavity and shock was the means to increasing effectiveness of handgun rounds, and an entire science was formed around this, using 20% ballistics gel and measurements of temporary cavities in these gels. Since fast, light bullets for caliber caused the greatest amount of shock in these tests, all of the experts at the time said that light and fast bullets were now super duper awesome cutting edge super one hit stopping ultra mega bullets. The experts took the flawed conclusions of the metrics and immediately went to the pulpit in front of LEO's and preached from the mighty gospel of fast handgun bullets. With great firebrand preachers for the new cult, they converted many a heretic to the One Truth of handgun terminal performance, that speed and shock are everything. Did you know that the Glaser Safety Slug is the best bullet ever designed?

Low and behold, true believers, it turns out the theory and conclusions they drew were absolutely wrong. The great new cult was built around misunderstandings and bad scientific conclusions, a deeply flawed theory. It turns out that almost no handgun can produce hydrostatic shock, and that temporary cavities are of little to no importance in stopping attacks. The 20% gel tests also purposely exaggerated these effects, making the illusion worse. It turned out the primary, and perhaps only, mechanism of stoppage was the actual crush cavity from the bullet itself. The super duper ultra mega super one hit man stoppers turned out to not be what they were said to be by the preachers of the new terminal ballistics cult, but the myth lives on today through those who still believe.

No matter how well you design a bullet, weight and sectional density will limit its potential. That's a dead on fact. Handgun bullets are already light for caliber to begin with, and sectional density is always an issue. All standard handguns area also low velocity and low energy. 1150 fps, or 1350 fps may be relatively fast for a handgun, but its still very slow. You don't really hit high velocity till you break the 2000 fps mark, and no "high velocity" handgun does that, much less a 115 grain 9mm Luger. No, the velocity is not high enough to create effective shock in tissue, no, the energy isn't high enough either. Its a medium power handgun, a low power cartridge, and a low velocity projectile.

So, when we talk about handgun bullets, and expanding bullets, what is best? Handgun bullets don't penetrate very well to begin with, weight, velocity, energy, and sectional density all considered, they aren't spectacular to begin with. The supposedly dangerous FMJ over penetrating tissues has been greatly over exaggerated, and non expanding bullets often times don't go through targets. If a non expanding bullet can fail to punch through a man, what does that say about expanding bullets? The answer is that we should be careful that the bullets don't fail to punch deep enough because of the increased surface area and resultant drag reducing penetration, not to mention bullets absorb their own energy in expanding. They can easily fail to get deep enough in angle shots.

So, if we need to make sure we can punch deep enough with our expanded bullet, what's the best way to go about it? One way is to build a better bullet that won't fragment or over expand. This is key to success, and preventing failure. The other is giving it the advantage of weight and sectional density, increasing its ability to penetrate deep even with the increased drag of crushing a bigger cavity with its bigger expanded face. It would appear for the handgun, with its limitations, would be best suited to use the heaviest bullets for caliber available when using expanding bullets. Using a higher velocity, lighter bullet simply doesn't seem to make sense, and in fact, fliess in the face of what we know about terminal ballistics.

Yes, you can attempt to design a bullet that will expand less and mitigate the problems of the light bullet, but that won't change the end limitations. Sure, they can and have designed 115's that won't fragment or they control expansion to prevent it from under penetration, but in truth, these bullets still under perform against heavier rivals. In the end, design can't make up for real physics and real physical limitations.

The people who believe in the Cult of the light bullet will often times pull out the old flawed science or Marshall and Sannow's work to prove they are right. Prove to them the old tests were flawed and the books they read are poor statistical hack work, they tend to degrade into "terminal ballistics don't matter, shot placement is everything" and generally try to change the subject to something other than the subject at hand. The same people who bash modern ballistics gel testing are sometimes the same people who preached to you about the old gelatin tests being final proof of smaller calibers and lighter bullets being superior. They ignore the science when its convenient.

Lastly, the 125 grain .357 Magnum rounds did well. But, what about the 158 grain hollow points? Just because .357 magnum had the power to make the 125 work well, is there the possibility that there is better? Could it be a hotload 158 grain hollow point of the same build might actually out perform the all sacred 125? Could it be, that even though the 125 grains were incredibly effective, that perhaps there was something even better? The 125 grain bullet argument always seems to state that 125 worked in 357, but I've never heard of any of these people ever mention if it was better or stacked up against other .357 Magnum rounds. They state the 125's grand superiority as if it were the best, without ever once stacking it up against alternatives.
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Old 01-01-2016, 03:59 PM
caleb4387 caleb4387 is offline
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9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr.  
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Originally Posted by REM 3200 View Post
Ah, the old argument... Supersonic BB or the sub-sonic bowling ball.

Me... I like the supersonic bowling ball.
lol I agree! I was gonna say just use 45 super and be done with it.
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Old 01-01-2016, 06:36 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr.  
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I have a Beretta PX4 Sub Compact I carry when I'm not carrying my 40c and was concerned with 147 grain JHP bullets expanding properly under the lower velocity from a 3 inch barrel verses a full size weapon with a 4-5 inch barrel producing a much higher barrel velocity ..

Testing with what was available - water filled gallon milk jugs with 4 layers of denim from a pair of jeans !! All of the different brands of JHP in 147 grain I tested expanded shooting through this configuration .. some did expand slightly more then others but all the modern rounds expanded in the 3 inch barrel..

The one that I thought expanded the best was Western Defend and that is the one I carry after my experiment and watching video of test of the round being shot into gelatin that is on YouTube ..

A series of video's called Ammo Quest on YouTube tests many of the most popular bullet sizes and weights in a controlled environment that comes close to simulating FBI Testing Controls ..
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:58 PM
Goblin Goblin is offline
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9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr.  
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While I'd agree that some writers, both popular and ad copy types, may have overblown "energy transfer," I sure want any bullets I might have to launch at a goblin to stay inside said goblin, unless I know for sure that no non-goblins are behind him.
I resemble that remark.
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  #77  
Old 01-01-2016, 11:35 PM
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BaldEagle1313 BaldEagle1313 is offline
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9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr.  
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I see we've managed to resurrect a six-year-old thread to have another discussion about bullet weight, complete with math formulas about E=MC2.

My two cents? Experiment and shoot all of them. 115, 124, 125, 147, whatever else you can find.

Whichever brand and bullet weight is the one your are most accurate with, use that one.

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  #78  
Old 01-05-2016, 06:18 PM
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usm1rifle usm1rifle is offline
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9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr. 9mm 115 Gr. vs 124 Gr. vs 147 Gr.  
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I don't shoot 9MM all the time, but when I do, it is Hornady 135gr Critical Duty.
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