Super Vel is what my Dad still keeps in his Bed stand 357 It is bad stuff. I shot several critters with it over the years and it made big HOLES!

__________________
Protected by Sigma 40VE

I agree with Frank237. Super Vel is not that old. I remember getting the stuff occasionally over the counter when I could afford factory 357 mags.

__________________
SWCA 1646

I'm glad to see this thread revived.
I was reading my 1980 vintage Ken Waters pet loads when I noticed he had tested some Super Vel .357 in a six inch Colt revolver.

The load is listed as original Super Vel.

The 110gr JSP velocity was 1,343fps

The 110gr JHP velocity was 1,359fps

So now you know about that load of Super Vel.
I have shot 115grJHP 9MM's that would be its equal. Speer #14 has 110gr loads that exceed 1600fps with 110gr bullets.
Super Vel in this case isn't so super.
Bruce

In the late 1970s I had a source for .38 Special Super Vel so bought the occasional box. I chronographed it in my 4-inch Model 10 Heavy Barrel and found that the 110 grain bullet was clocking 1237 fps. I also had a box of the Winchester "Treasury" 110 grain +P+ loads and tested it on the same outing. It gave 1100 fps.

I considered that Super Vel to be pretty good medicine. I was packing it in the Model 10 when I spine shot a buck deer from less than 10 feet away as it ran past me, fleeing from another hunter. The .30-40 Krag I was using flattened it effectively with a 220 grain round nose bullet but, though paralyzed, it attempted to struggle on the ground. I quickly shot it through the heart with the .38 Special at point blank range. Upon field dressing the buck I found that the Super Vel 110 grain jacketed hollow point had poked a .38 hole through the heart then ranged far down in the deer's left front leg stopping at the knee joint. I extracted the bullet to find the bullet to only be abraded on the exposed lead portion, the hollow point still intact. Despite the rifling marks it looked as if it could be loaded and fired again.

It was only a single instance but the experience left me disillusioned about jacketed hollow point bullets in handguns.

The heart shot did shut down the deer though.

I thought I'd shot up all the Super Vel .38 Special loads years ago but when moving year before last I found a couple of boxes I forgot I had.

Here is the scoop. The original Super Vel (Lee Juras) ammo should have Shelbyville, Ind. printed on the box. If it has Greensburg, Ind. it is the newer and down-loaded vesrion. The old stuff generally ate up J and K frames after moderate amouts of shooting. The gunsmith I worked for got quite a few duty and O/D guns with flamecutting of the topstraps. N frames had no such problem.

I have a box identical to this in the basement. Frankly, I've never fired them because I'm not a 9mm fan, guess I just keep them now.

For what it's worth, I shot a dillar with a 44 special from about 50 feet and he ran off never to be seen again. Not saying a 44 spec is like a 380, just saying bullet placement is everything no matter what you shoot.

I had the same experience with a 125 JHP in .357 vs. a dillo.



They are too dumb to know they have been killed.

I think you may be correct. The problem is that crack heads may very well have an equivalent I.Q.

Bob

Which takes you back to bullet placement. LOL

As the Deputy Chef Medical Examiner for Dade County (Miami) Florida in the early seventy's, before anyone ever called us "CSI Miami", I can assure you that SuperVel was the ammo of choice, usually shot from a Walther PPK .380 by the locals, especially by a group known then as the "Cuban Mafia", with due respects to all Cubans on this site.

I will never forget that on a Sunday night, at a wedding reception at one of the Sheraton Four Ambassador's Hotels, an altercation broke out over a cigarette, taken from the groom, and all hell broke loose. When the cops arrived, all was quiet, but a search of the hall, especially behind the drapes, yielded an assortment of Walthers, all loaded with SuperVels. The total take of contraband was several bushel baskets!

Ahh, for the good old days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

I'm suprised no one has mentioned this yet, but the term "flying ashtray" was originally applied to the Super Vel 185gr .45ACP round. By the way, to this day, one of the baddest .45 rounds ever developed, and the cases were nickle plated!

Buddy,

Perhaps the "Cuban Mafia" discarded their armament because they had heard of my failed encounter with the armadillo which I related back in post #18. If I hadn't had so much regard for James Bond I would have discarded my PPK after the event too.

Bob

PS. Now that we know more about the terminal ballistics of hollow points, I think it is all together possible that the "ashtray" was plugged by the animals external shell and the expansion never occurred so most of the energy was expended after it exited. I didn't do a PM on the armadillo but, retrospectively, it might have have been instructive.
B.

I probably already posted this a while back in some other thread, but in December 1998, I chrono'ed some .38 Spl 110 gr SuperVel, almost surely Shelbyville vintage, in my 4" Model 10 and 6" Official Police. Average velocity for ten shots at a few yards was 1181 fps for 4", 1251 fps for 6". SD was 36 and 42 respectively, a bit wilder than some other ammo.

I recall firing 110 gr .357 Mag Supervel in my 6" Model 19 many years ago, probably in the very early 70's, and I was impressed mostly with the lack of recoil, which makes sense considering the light bullet. Sorry, no chronograph back then.

I thought flying ashtray was originally a Speer bullet.

Bob,

As the new boy on the block, I decided that I should be armed like the competition. So, I went out to the Hialea Gun Shop and got me a Walther .380 and a box of SuperVels. That pistol is in my safe with most of the box of SuperVels, 37 years later, having shot one mag.

It was too snappy for me, plus I am a revolver man.

May SuperVels rest in peace. I dug out many a one from bodies. They did a good job on the ones that I got. But, I am sure that there were many more non-fatals, just as you describe.

Sorry I missed your post # 18. Tell me how I can find it!

Buddy

__________________
Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

Buddy,

My post #18 is back on page 2 of this thread.

Bob

Anyone heard of super vel's being loaded in sako head stamped brass. I got a box of .357 looks like super vel in sako brass.

this thread brings back memories... last box of 357's I had went through a dan wesson with a 6" barrel. about 28 years ago. the 110 gr hp's were fast (no crono though) BUT they left a copper dust on the outside of the barrel. my buddy had the gun, I had the left over super vel's. he thought the ammo had rusted the outside of the gun. I had a colt trooper mk lll and had a problem with flame cutting the top strap. those fast super vel's, smith and wesson 110's and the later remington 125's were a bit rough on a mid size gun. Lee made a good high performance ammo. I got to thank him once. he started a movement in ammo making where the big guys had to get off dead center and catch up to him. that is neat to know and to have lived through. kinda like cor bon, grizzly and buffalo bore of today.

As a newly minted rookie I carried a Model 19 with a six inch barrel in a Jordan holster with a night stick made of walnut. Does that make me an ol' timer? I couldn't afford Super Vels, but we were limited to department issue 158 grn mags, but some of the guys carried them in O/D or backups.

I've got 2 boxes of which 1 is half full. Jurras munitions corp. yellow box, Shelbyville, Indiana FACTORY REMANUFACTURED AMMUNITION 38 special 158 grain S.W.C.

Checkman: my dad is one of those cops that you described so well. He was sworn in in 1950 and retired in 1980. He was (and still is even though he's mellowed at age 82) a no-nonsense guy. He considered his night stick, not his Colt 38 special, his first line of defense. The night stick got used all the time. As he taught me many years ago, "If you pull your gun out of the holster use it. But you'd better make sure you're right." Still good advice. He told me not too long ago (I thought I had heard all the stories) about his encounter with two guys having a knife fight. When my dad arrived on the scene one guy ran but the other stuck around (no pun intended). This guy refused to drop his knife when "asked". One broken arm later from the night stick, the knife was on the ground and this guy was on his way to the hospital. In the '70s dad was on the job but wearing jacket and tie and carrying his Chief Special Airweight 38. Someone had given him a box of Super Vel ammo which he promptly loaded into that J frame. He had that ammo for many years, even up to retirement. Thank God he never dropped the hammer on any of those rounds! The whole thing would probably have come apart. About a year ago he was rummaging around in his gun box and handed me that box of Super Vels. I don't intend on shooting them. Thanks for the memories.

You are correct.

__________________
CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

The Super Vel .45 190 grain JHP, with it's wide mouth hollowpoint, pre-dates the Speer .45.



Don't remember anyone calling it that at the time, but I can see where they might have.....

I would love a stash of Super Vel ammo.
I fired two of the calibers....45 ACP and 110 grain .357 mag. The .45ACP produced a nice, large blue flame out of the barrel of a Colt 1911A1. Recoil wasn't bad at all. I fired the .357 magnum out of a Colt 2 inch Lawman Mark 3. The flame and noise produced by that ammo was truly spectacular. The whole indoor range stopped shooting as I touched off each round. I'm surprised all the hair on my hand wasn't burnt off. If you didn't kill the bad guy with the bullet, the flame would be like tossing gasoline in his face.

I've noticed some Super Vel .357 Mag popping up as I've cleaned cases and reloaded. I continually find .357 mag brass from when I first started shooting 35 yrs ago, in a coffee can in the basement or garage, an old box full of "stuff" in the barn. I have no idea when or where I got it but I've quarantined those cases (about a box of 50).
May trade them for something if I find someone has an interest. Interesting to read the stories.

Super Vel bullets were sold as reloading components. I still have a partial box of the .38 110gr left from the old days. The diameter marked on the box is .3565.
I have chronoed CorBon .38 spl 110 gr hp ammo. One box was marked 1300fps and did make 1300fpr from a 3 inch model 65. The other box was marked 1250fps and made 1200fps from the same gun. Dean

I never tried Super Vel but still love the old 200 gr Flying Ashtray. I have some left and in fact, 7 rounds of CorBon loaded with it resting in a magazine inside a 4506 neatly tucked under my pillow. This is one of those bullets from CorBon shot into wet phone books at about 15 feet from a Commander.

ColColt,

I'd say that if a wet phone book sneaks into your bedroom in the middle of the night, it's dead meat!.

Bob

It was-and, there was no retribution from his kin folks either.

This thread brings back many fond memories of my Ruger .44 magnum Super Blackhawk with a 7 1/2 inch barrel.

I shot many boxes of Super Vel in that gun, and I can attest, it was the hottest ammo I ever shot. The Ruger handled it without a hitch.

Super Vel quality was bar none, simply the best.

I think I would be afraid to shoot much of it in my S&W .44 mag today.

augy

You're right. My police career spanned this time period and the "Flying Ashtray" was the Speer 200gr .45 ACP JHP. I kept all my .45 ACP pistols (and one old converted Webley revolver) loaded with this ammo.

Regarding Super Vel ammo, I kept my personal Model 28's chambers alternately loaded with Super Vel 110gr JHP and Western 158gr Metal Piercing cartridges, three of each. Those were the days.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I have a nearly full box of 190 gr .45 JHPs. Orig price tag $7.85.

Sooooooooooo, should they be shot or collected?

And does anyone know the velocity of these rounds from a 1911?

__________________
Jon

Very collectable.

Good hot loads right out of the box.

It was desinged by Lee Jurras. I shot some .357 at a combat shoot back in the late '70's and the range officer stopped me due to it penetrating the steel targets. RO thought I was shooting armor piercing.

Keep it. Don't shoot it. If you don't want it, send it to me.

Jim

I shoot a few thru the chrono and keep a few. I believe the notion that all Super Vel is highly collectable is greatly overstated. The last two boxes I bought, both 9mm at separate gun shows, were less than $10 each.

I remember this ammo from many years ago. It was the Cor-Bon type of ammo in that time, "hot, stout stuff". Many used it for CCW even the leo's at that time too. I remember it mainly in the 357mg ammo. Bill

BTW; I just found a box of Olin 45acp ammo in a brown box dated 1968 (surplus military) and probably from the nam war. Is it collectable? I pulled it out to shoot it. I also have some very old Peters 12ga still in new condition filled with paper cased 12ga shells, so its the orginal boxes with the orginal ammo in them. I guess there collectable too.

I don't know. I've collected the last 12 of each 110gr hollow points and soft points. They dated from the mid 1970s, and they collect dust, too.

I've bought and stored some since. Not 9mm's, but mostly 357s and 38s. Only because I still love them.

A couple of years ago some individuals voted wrong and we got a president that gun owners didn't like. So they started a run on ammo at every store selling it. That in turn brought out ammo that hadn't seen the light of day in decades. For whatever reason, I was in a spending mood so I bought a bunch of Super Vel (and then some Black Talons). Just because it was there, and I considered the idea it might be my last opportunity to do so.

I even managed to pick up a couple of the wallet packs of 357s. Back in the day, those were the cat's meow. You never saw them in stores when they were in production. As for the price, I don't recall them being out of line with current production ammo. I'm guessing the sellers saw the price tags still on them from the 1970s (30 years prior) and thought it was a chance for them to get a profit.

And its a fun subject because there are those among us who are sure ammo has a "use by date" just like milk. And they're convinced they took us stupid hillbillies to the cleaners.

But thanks to this thread, I'm headed to the gun room. I have no idea how much in total I have, but I guess I need to get an idea.

__________________
Dick Burg

OK, in one .50 cal box I found 3 new to me boxes of .357s, plus an 18 pack wallet. That was from the winter of 2 years ago. I can't find my can of factory .38s, and there should be more there.

So yes, its kind of collectible.

__________________
Dick Burg

When I first started working fpr AZ DPS in 1972, we were issued a model 15 and 12 rounds of the 110 HP Super Vel, with the armory staff claiming it to be the best and hotest 38's on the police market. In fact we carried it in our of duty J frames too, which was something to see and feel when fired.

Just thinking about SuperVel out of a J-frame makes my hand hurt!!

When I was a young copper I used to carry some of the .38 Special variety in my off-duty snubbies. It came in handy when camping for starting campfires.

__________________
Loyalty Above All.. but Honor

Back around 1973 my friend and I used to go shooting in an old junkyard one county east of where I lived. We conducted an experiment with my 6 1/2 " Model 29 shooting various types of ammo into a discarded underground gas station gas tank which had very thick steel sides. Shooting into the flat end portion of the tank, from about 25 feet, we fired Remington, Norma, Winchester and Super Vel ammo into the tank. All of the ammo put a small dent and stopped at that falling to the ground upon impact. The Super Vel ammo went right through the steel leaving an almost perfect hole that appeared to have been made by a drill. I became an instant believer in that ammo. I still have a few boxes of the original Juras Super Vel left. That was great ammo, way ahead of it's time.

si--------

Good thread and brings back memories for me, too.
My first 'paycheck job' (instead of farm-work and yard work) was as a teenager at a fairly large gunshop in our capital city, 10 miles from home.
The year was 1974 when I started. I was quickly hooked, and the manager took me under his wing and taught me all things related to handloading.
Being as how I was making about $1.90/hr. there, there were not alot of extra funds for play.
In the store were many, many boxes of Super Vel bullets (as in component bullets). They were always in 50 - count boxes, unlike all the Sierra, Speer and Hornady stuff we carried which were, of course 100 count. Most had been in stock since the late '60's and were relatively cheap. I so well recall loading my first .38's and .357 rounds for my 'brand new - just on the market' Ruger Security Six with SV 110 and 137 gr. JSP's. There were also a bunch of 148 gr. HBWC's. Being a rash handloading geek teen, I quickly ran loads to redline and above with those bullets. The Ruger just kept taking the abuse until I traded it on a M28, so I could take advantage of a 6" barrel. Also had alot of .429 180 gr. JHP SV bullets I ended up shooting in a used Super Blackhawk. I think I finally bought up and used all those bullets.

In the early through mid-'70's, in my area, many customers were beginning to use the term 'Super Vel' to describe ANY sort of JHP pistol cartridge, especially once +P's began to show up. As in "Gimme a box of .38 Super Vels" That didn't mean they neccessarily wanted that brand, they just wanted some sort of JHP.

And not to go OT, but when I began wearing a badge and pushing big ol' Plymouths around, my department issued S&W - brand .38 +P ammo for our Colt Trooper MkIII's. First in 110 gr. JHP's , and then later in 125 JHP's.
How far my old agency has come - I helped test/eval what became their newest duty weapon right before I retired - they now carry S&W M&P .45's with Speer 230 gr. GD's.

So, both of these types of ammo bring back good memories of some neat times in my life.
There'll always be a few boxes of the old blue & white S&W ammo and yellow, red-striped SV stuff stashed around my shooting gear.

__________________
Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

You guys are taking me back to my childhood. Going to the range with dad and his fellow officers on their days off. Range boxes, Hoppes # 9, big old Model 28's and 22 pistols (since they were cheaper to shoot) and the occassional surplus handgun like a Walther P38 or even a Luger P08. Not to mention more than a few rifles and shotguns purchased through Sears and Woolworths and of course they were affordable. Maybe they weren't ubertactical cool, but they seemed cool enough to me. Good times. Many of those officers are now dead and dad no onger shoots since he is slowly going blind. Times change, but I still have those memories.

I wouldn't want to be shot with super vel. I bet that Super Vel will still do the job.
Joe-R

Brings back memories. I killed my second deer ever with a 1911 hardballer set up by a local gunsmith and Super Vel .45 acp. Side to side in and out. Turned the lungs into a consistency like scrambled eggs. Very short blood trail.

I found a magazine still full of those cartridges the other day when I was cleaning my shop. Sadly the hardballer is long gone.

Lee Jurras is/was still around. He was a regular on the old Sixgunner forum as 'Old Curmudgeon'.

I still have some of the .45 ACP ammo that was packed in brown plastic 18rd MTM ammo-wallets. Bullets would set back into the cases fairly easy. Maybe that was the 'secret' to the high velocity.

I am ashamed to admit that I only have five rounds of 110 grain 38 special left, used to shoot that stuff all the time in a 357.

__________________
Currahee

I have half a box of .380 Super Vel JHP from around 1972. Is it still live and can it still be fired in my Browning .380 auto circa 1960's, made in Belgium. Any info would be appreciated.