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  #1  
Old 04-22-2010, 08:42 PM
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Wink The "multiball" ammo nobody likes.

I buy "estate" ammo when I can beat the auction house to the punch. I bought several boxes of older factory ammo recently and this box was in the mix.





I'd never seen Remington ammo like this before, so I did a little internet search...

Remington?s Multi-Ball Ammunition

Is the Remington "Multi ball" load really that bad a round to carry? - Glock Talk

Multi-ball loads for a .357? [Archive] - THR

... and discovered it's about THE most despised 357 ammo that Remington ever put out.

I thought the idea of more than one projectile per round was an often used and sometimes successful idea. As in a .410 shell with 3 slugs or buckshot for any gauge shotgun.

I guess this one was underpowered, inaccurate and scorned by every gun magazine that tested it. It didn't last long.

So, I'll put this box up and when some of my know-it-all friends tell me about 357 ammo, I'll say "bet cha' I got a round you never saw before!" and spring this on 'em!

GF

Last edited by GF; 04-22-2010 at 09:41 PM. Reason: spellin'
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:29 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if a good multi projectile load is successfully done in .357 at some point. Perhaps something along the lines of a 90 gr. JHP that exibits very controlled expansion and a 70 gr. lead cylinder sitting right behind it. All the same, one would be hard pressed to top the 125 gr. JHP.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:35 PM
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If you searched this forum you might find at least two threads, one I started a couple years ago and another within the last few weeks. I have a full box of the .38 Special, have not tested it yet, but like the concept just fine.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiab View Post
If you searched this forum you might find at least two threads, one I started a couple years ago and another within the last few weeks. I have a full box of the .38 Special, have not tested it yet, but like the concept just fine.

Is your 38 spl ammo Remington too? I can't believe they made it in two different calibers after all the bad press.

Did any other mfg. make this kind of ammo besides Remington?

GF
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:07 PM
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Default Multi-ball ammo

I have very old .45-70 3 ball ammo I picked up in the 1940's. I think it was Civil War stuff.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:11 PM
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I've got the remainder of a box of Remington .38SPL --- it deserved any bad reviews it got. Turns groups into patterns, and is anemic to boot.
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:36 AM
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It is a good idea but could have been done better. There were several other types of multiple projectile munitions over the years and Remington was probably more interested in getting in the market than wasting time on research. In the end none of them lasted very long and I'm sure that one reason was because the gun writers couldn't shoot an IPSC match with them.
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Old 04-23-2010, 01:20 AM
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I think the concept of this stuff is funny, not effective, but funny. Anybody know when this stuff was marketed? From the boxes I'd say early 1980's. Anybody know?
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:33 AM
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Peter, there is nothing wrong with the concept at all. At close range they would be similar to getting shot by both of Wild Bills .36 cal. Colts at the same time. If loaded properly.

I don't recall ever hearing about them being used in a gunfight or any other "reality" situation. There have been many great ideas that were trashed by "experts" and a whole lot of junk that became a marketing miracle by the same. Such as the .41AE cartridge. The trouble is nobody checked these experts credentials and simply took their word for who they claimed to be.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:17 AM
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I kept the .38 Multiball in my house gun for a while.
Never shot anything with it but paper targets.
I used it a couple of times to puzzle shooting buddies by firing one shot and hitting the target twice.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:30 AM
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I think the reason so many people hated them was because they didn't understand them. They are a specialty round and not intended for everyday use, like many of the other experimental offerings that were a good idea but died anyway.
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2010, 10:10 AM
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I purchased and shot two boxes of these rounds during the early eighties for home defense based on a couple of positive articles I read in gun magazines. Coming out of my 3.5" Model 27 at 10 yards I would see two holes sometimes two feet apart. Needless to say those rounds became target fodder and I have since relied upon Black Talons (yes, I stocked up big time on those!) for my home defense.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2010, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellybean View Post
I think the reason so many people hated them was because they didn't understand them. They are a specialty round and not intended for everyday use, like many of the other experimental offerings that were a good idea but died anyway.
I think these were indeed specialty rounds. Based on the way they perform, I would have to guess that the intent was to give multiple hits at very close range with limited penetration. I don't think they were intended as any sort of general purpose ammunition.

There have been so many theories about "stopping power" over the years. (There still are: look at any thread about light vs heavy 9mms)

One theory, which is still around, is that multiple hits, close together in time and location, are more effective than a single hit that might have greater energy and/or greater expansion. You can see this concept played out at just about any non-bullseye pistol match. It's the whole idea behind the double tap.

There were problems with this load related to bullet jump in light weight revolvers. Trusting my memory (which is often a mistake), they were OK in a M-36, but would jump just about every time in a Colt Cobra.

I tested some of the 38 SPL multiball. Here is the link, if anyone is interested in the numbers.

Any one remember this stuff?

Charles
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  #14  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
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I have several boxes of this stuff in .38 and .357 loadings. I never shot a lot of it, but at 10-15 feet the balls from the .38 spl load would normally hit within 2-3 inches of each other out out of my 2 inch 49 or 15. At the time I bought them (mid '90s?) I thought that they might be just the ticket if I had to go to New Jersey or somewhere silly that didn't allow hollow points.

I always thought that it would have performed much better with two 80-90 grain wadcutters instead.
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:43 AM
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I was given a handfull of these rounds by a friend about 10 years ago, the .38 special version. I found that they impacted a little high and to the left of standard .38 speical out of my 2 inch snubbie. They consistantly hit about 2 - 3 inches apart. Recoil was light. I think this might have good home defense applications. Good chance of a hit and I know the balls will penetrate and do damage. Like a previous poster said, it would be similar to being hit by a .36 cap and ball.

A friend of mine was hit by a .36 ball at a bad Civil War reenactment. (The culpret who accidently brought a live loaded cylinder has never been identified.) It passed through his groin and exited his butt cheek. Don't dismiss what a .36 ball will do. BYW, his "groin" is now working fine although one testicle was destroyed. He made a full recovery otherwise.
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  #16  
Old 04-23-2010, 12:59 PM
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Question

"...although one testicle was destroyed. He made a full recovery ..."

I dunno 'bout that statement !?!


Anyway, an earlier poster stated that I should've done a search when I posted this thread up. Thanks for your link.
I'd asked if this ammo in 38 spl was also Remington and you had the answer. Looks like this ammo turns up more than I thought.

GF
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  #17  
Old 04-23-2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
"...although one testicle was destroyed. He made a full recovery ..."
OOOOOOHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! KICK ME IN THE JIMMY!!!!!!!!!
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  #18  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GF View Post
Is your 38 spl ammo Remington too? I can't believe they made it in two different calibers after all the bad press.

Did any other mfg. make this kind of ammo besides Remington?

GF
Multi-projectile loads have been made in the past but they were all short lived. A few that come to mind are:

Multiple Munitions Inc (MMI). They loaded a JHP on top of two lead discs.

Triplex. They used three conical lead projectiles stacked on top of each other.

Onslaught. This load used 6-7 lead discs (depending on caliber, 38 or 357).

Even the U.S. Govt got into trying to stuff 2-3 bullets into service caliber rifle rounds. They called it Project SALVO. Never did pan out.

I believe that even Double Tap loaded 10mm ammo with a JHP and a lead ball seated below the JHP. I don't know if DT still makes the load or not.
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTG_COLLECTOR View Post

I believe that even Double Tap loaded 10mm ammo with a JHP and a lead ball seated below the JHP. I don't know if DT still makes the load or not.

DoubleTap Ammunition


230gr. two projectiles: 135gr. JHP and 95gr. lead ball

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  #20  
Old 04-24-2010, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GF View Post
Anyway, an earlier poster stated that I should've done a search when I posted this thread up. I'd asked if this ammo in 38 spl was also Remington
GF
Yes, the .38 Special that I have is Remington, and I believe it is more common than the .357. I didn't meant to indicate you should have done a search here, but if you did you might (depending on how well the search function is working that day) find two other threads. One of them will have some chrono info.
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  #21  
Old 04-24-2010, 10:04 PM
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I've never shot any factory multi-ball loads but I have done quite a bit of experimenting with mulitple projectiled ammunition. I've used .32 mag, .38/.357 and .41 mag. with roundballs. .41 mag with short wadcutters. .38/.357 with Speer shot capsules loaded with various items and shotshell pellets in every revolver caliber. They are all promising although some are limited more than others in their application, but is an interesting study and I think they are highly under rated. I've been thinking about going back to the .41 mag for some more experimenting with roundballs, but I need to find some .30-30 brass.
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  #22  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:56 PM
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Jellybean,

Please explain the use of, I presume, cut down/modified 30-30 brass in the 41 for what you have in mind. Or PM me.

Now, you've got my curiosity aroused, a bad thing to do.....

Altho, I don't own a 30-30 now, I do have a bunch of 375 Winchester Big Bore brass, some 32 Winchester and a few 30-30 cases.

Now I have to go check out the similarity of the 2 cases........
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  #23  
Old 04-25-2010, 02:14 PM
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Yogi, Long ago I had made some full length shot shells for my .41 magnums using modified .30-30 cases. I found a couple of them while digging through my odds and ends boxes, laid them down next to some standard length brass and noticed the amount of gap between factory brass and the cylinder throats. I'm planning on modifying some more cases that will be cut just behind the throat. These might be able to carry a larger payload of roundballs and/or small wadcutters.
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2010, 09:16 AM
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I've loaded bunches of these in 38 special and 357 cases. What everyone says is right, 2-3 inches at 10 yds is the best I ever achieved.

Now I've developed a 3 ball 45/70 load that groups 3 inches at 30 yds and kicks like a kitten. That ones a dandy for walking the woods.
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threepdr View Post
A friend of mine was hit by a .36 ball at a bad Civil War reenactment. (The culpret who accidently brought a live loaded cylinder has never been identified.) It passed through his groin and exited his butt cheek. Don't dismiss what a .36 ball will do. BYW, his "groin" is now working fine although one testicle was destroyed. He made a full recovery otherwise.
Now that is a realistic (and crazy) reenactment. I guess everybody here knows that Wild Bill favored the .36 cap and ball, so its a known killer. Glad the idiot that shot your friend was a poor shot.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:52 AM
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Yogi, I looked at one of the cut down cases a lttle closer. It won't give me enough extra space to really do anything, so I'm just going to make some more shotshells. In case you wanted to know.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:59 AM
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I loaded some the other day. I took two 310 dia 32 round balls and loaded them in a 32 S&W Long. Each ball weighed 40 grains. I used 2 grains of Bullseye. Crimped second ball on top. They were accurate out to 20 feet each ball measuring 6 inches apart. Neat load, fun to play with. I also have several boxes of the 357 Magnum and 38 Special Remington stuff. Never tried them. Got me curious now.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:34 PM
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This brings back memories. I have a mould that casts an 84 grain wad-cutter. 2 of these could be loaded in a .38 Spl case, or a .357, for that matter. 2" at 10 yards was about right. One would usually shoot to point of aim, and the other would be about 2" away.

Might be good for 2" guns if you couldn't get good hollow points.

Lee makes a .38 caliber 105 grain semi wadcutter mould. I always wanted to try the 105 grain semi-wad-cutter on top of my 84 grain wad-cutter for 189 grains of duplex goodness.

Now that I am casting again, I may just have to break out that old mould and pour a few.
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  #29  
Old 05-21-2010, 12:17 PM
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Interesting load. I purchased a 75 gr .357 bullet mould but for a similar use but have yet to cast any to test. Should work well at short distances.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLflag View Post
I have very old .45-70 3 ball ammo I picked up in the 1940's. I think it was Civil War stuff.
Just a FYI...

The 45/70 was developed for the 1873 Trapdoor Springfield. That was a bit after the Not-So Civil War.

As to the Rem. multi-ball load - I sold these when I worked in a gun shop back in the late 80's. I believe it was intended as a lower powered - close range ammo - kinda like the view I have of the Taurus Judge. I know there were complaints about leading, but I never shot enough of it to see it.

Have a good weekend,
Bob S.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:01 AM
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I still have a couple of boxes of both the .38 and the .357, IIRC these grouped fairly close together out to the 10-15 yard line from my 640.

I'd like to see an updated version of this loading, perhaps with a copper plated OOO pellet behind Remington's 88gr .380 bullet sized to .357
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:04 AM
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Back in the late '80s or early 90's Remington made this load in standard .38 SPL. I never got my hands on any, but I did manufacture my own.

I used 000 swaged lead buckshot, lubed it and loaded it into .38 cases using the loading data from an old Speer #9 manual, for standard pressure 140 gr. usuing Unique powder (each 000 buck weighed 71 gr.).

Worked just fine and was fun to shoot. However, if I were to do it again I would use the slowest burning powder available so that it filled as much of the case as possible. The problem with Unique was that there was not enough powder to keep the balls from falling down into the case. I solved this by stuffing half of a cotton ball between the powder & projectiles. The balls fit a bit "spongy" into the case, but it worked just fine.

The loads shot great out to 10 or 15 yards, and were extremely pleasant. Not much contact with the bore for the round balls, so there's not much resistance meaning not much recoil. What was better was all of the cotton floating in the air and drifting out of the barrel after the balls went downrange.
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLflag View Post
I have very old .45-70 3 ball ammo I picked up in the 1940's. I think it was Civil War stuff.
If you are talking about the American Civil War, I can gaurantee you don't have .45-70 ammo from that conflict.



As to the OP, this is the first time I've ever heard of this load from Remington. I know Double Tap has what they call their "Double Defense" (or something) ammo that usually consists of a couple lightweight JHPs or other design bullet, and they make on for the .357 magnum.

Can't say I'd trust it to be any more lethal than a quality full power 125 grain SJHP. The Federal 357B load comes to mind, I've got a couple boxes of them tucked away.

Still a pretty cool item to have in the collection, even if it isn't super useful stuff. I wonder if it is rare or particularly valuable? It might appreciate in value over time if not.
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:52 AM
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Default I could see.....

As mentioned, I could see this ammo used in a 'Civil War' type scenario where, without having quick loading repeaters, you could try to hit as many people in close proximity to each other with one shot before they are in your face with a bayonet.

Oh yeah, another practical use for multiball ammo. Target shooting with a buddy. How did you make 7 holes with a 6 shooter?

Last edited by rwsmith; 05-11-2014 at 03:02 AM.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:36 AM
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Just look at it as snake load for REALLY BIG snakes.
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