Uzi 9mm Carbine 115 gr. +P FMJ

[David Sinko]

I just acquired about 75 rounds of Uzi 9mm Carbine 115 gr. +P FMJ, apparently made in 1987. The noses of the bullets are painted red. What is the background of this stuff? I find it hard to believe that it would be hotter than any of the really strong stuff that's available today and safe for use in modern handguns. In my experience their brass tends to be inferior and was always the first to split once I started to reload it.

Dave Sinko

[photoman]

The IMI 9mm smg ammo if very hot but it usually has a black tip. Your red tip ammo may be tracer.

[David Sinko]

The box says UZI on top and Israeli Military Industries on the back. It might not be the original box. The headstamp says 9mm TZZ 87. As for tracer rounds, I was also given eight rounds of red tip tracer rounds made by some outfit called "National." The headstamp actually does say National and the quality of this stuff is definitely inferior. They look like somebody's first attempt at handloading but it does come in a genuine box. I guess I'll shoot a few rounds of the Uzi ammo to see if it really is tracer. If it is, will there be any ill effects shooting it out of my 940? Any surprises out of the cylinder gap?

Dave Sinko

[Erich]

I used to shoot the IMI/Uzi red/black-tip (I had boxes with both - don't know of any tracer imported by IMI under the Uzi brand name) 115-gr FMJ +P carbine ammo from my Norinco 213 Tok. Worked great. It was my car gun back when I was doing investigating work in law school. I can't find my records from the (old original model Shooting) Chrony from back then, but I recall that the stuff was good for a bit under 1250 fps from the Tok pistol.

As you know, the no-dash 940 was not rated for +P by the factory. That said, I had problems with mine only with standard pressure Blazer 115-gr FMJ. I shot some +P+ through it with no observed ill effects. Can't say how your gun would handle this ammo, of course.

[625smith]

Here are some pictures of some Samson black tip UZI ammo. I would not fire any of this ammo in a handgun.

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

My buddy and I used to shoot a lot of the commercial IMI 9mm ammo back in the early 1980's. It was imported by Action Arms Ltd. The +P and Carb ammo came in a couple different boxes (blue Samson box and the "ammo crate" UZI box), two different tip colors (black and maroon), and various headstamped cases (lMl 9mm Luger +P, lMl 9mm CARB, T Z, TZZ). Those cases stamped TZ or TZZ also have a two-digit date on it.

The +P and CARB stamped carbine loads are significantly hotter than standard U.S. domestic made 9mm loads, as this ammo was designed to reliably function in the UZI Model A/B, Mini UZI carbine and UZI pistol.

AAL also imported subsonic 158FMJ load for the carbines and a 124FMJ for pistols. Both of these loads have a powder blue bullet tip and IIRC, the 124FMJ bullet has a light cannilure around the bullet just above the case mouth as a visual identifier.

All pictures that I have seen of Israeli tracers have been packaged predominately in the small 25 round military boxes with the pull-string opener. I've seen labels in both English and Hebrew and part of the label printing is always in red on the tracer boxes. The red tips of these tracers are very bright in color as opposed to the dark subdued maroon tip sometimes found on the 115FMJ carbine loads.

[David Sinko]

OK, the tips of these bullets are dark subdued maroon and not bright red. I guess that clears up the mystery. Thanks for the info. I will try some in the 940 to see what happens. If they use a fast powder to get the high velocity I expect to have trouble with extraction. I'll try to chrono some too.

Dave Sinko

[Erich]

Those 158-grainers really were not that impressive, as I recall.

[flop-shank]

Originally Posted by Erich

Those 158-grainers really were not that impressive, as I recall.

Makes sense. There can't be much case capacity left.

[Erich]

That was back when everyone was excitedly jumping onto the "subsonic" wagon . . . those 158-gr 9x19s were most definitely subsonic!

[paragon1]

Originally Posted by Erich

Those 158-grainers really were not that impressive, as I recall.

Made for suppressed carbines. It had to be subsonic out of a rifle barrel so their performance out of a pistol suffered. Some say they would keyhole out of a shorter barrel.

[David Sinko]

The 940 extracted this stuff effortlessly. Recoil was very snappy but fired cases practically fell out of the cylinder. There was a large amount of unburned powder left behind in the chambers which made chambering of subsequent cartridges difficult. That's something I've never experienced previously with this revolver, or at least not after the first cylinder fired. Obviously they are using a very slow powder which is not burning very well in a 2" barrel. I guess that's why it's called carbine ammo!

Dave Sinko