Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Ammo
Forum Register Expert Commentary Members List


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:54 PM
aterry33's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Default Your thoughts on 158GR 357 HP and over-penetration

I saw a few boxes of Speer GDHP 158 Grain 357s in the bargain bin today and grabbed them. Would you be worried about over-penetration with the 158 grain loads vs. the 125 grain loads (against humans). I tend to think that the 158s would be fine in a HP loading but I have not tested this out on jugs or anything.

Thanks.
__________________
Aaron Terry
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:12 PM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 174
Liked 920 Times in 606 Posts
Default

I would think it's the other way around. I would worry more about the 125gr bullet than the 158gr bullet. (but I really would worry about either) IMO the additional velocity achieved with the lighter bullet would lend itself more to over-penetration. BUT, the GDHP bullet is well designed and will penetrate well but expand reliably so as not to pass right through what your shooting. Ball ammo is a totally different matter.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:58 PM
SAFireman's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Home of the Alamo
Posts: 1,611
Likes: 528
Liked 669 Times in 229 Posts
Default They were made for SD purposes

I have had some of the Gold Dot stuff...it was designed for self defense purposes, not for hunting, so why worry too much?

I bet you can get their gelatin results online...

here is the first google result that came up...

Ballistic gelatin test results : .357 Magnum 158gr Speer Gold Dot JHP [Archive] - THR

Seems less than a perfect scientific test, but there it is...

Hope that helps clarify things....you can always compare it with the 125 grain bullet's test as well...loads of people are doing their own tests now, so there are a lot of different opinions out there...I would carry it for SD, probably a good winter round
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-31-2010, 10:17 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I would think it's the other way around. I would worry more about the 125gr bullet than the 158gr bullet. (but I really would worry about either) IMO the additional velocity achieved with the lighter bullet would lend itself more to over-penetration.
Lighter bullets will almost always result in less penetration.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 05-31-2010, 10:38 AM
cp1969's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 279
Liked 44 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Higher velocity does not always result in more penetration, either. In fact it rarely does with expanding bullets.

I want penetration, all the way through.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-31-2010, 12:55 PM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Rust Belt Buckle/Mich
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWnTN View Post
Lighter bullets will almost always result in less penetration.
More often than not, yes, but do keep in mind that penetration is as much a result of bullet design as weight, and, of course, velocity. Clothing can also have an effect.

Example #1; .380 JHPs. I've tested several and read the gel test results on numerous other sites. There are several loads that penetrate ~8". They are designed to expand to a large diameter. Hornady and CCI/Speer's engineers got it right in that their bullets are designed to expand to a certain point (~.42") and stop. They sort of "half put on the brakes" and thus generally reach 12" - 14" penetration. If they fail to expand ~ 17" is the norm. Also look at the Hornady XTP. If an XTP is tested alongside most anyone else's JHP of equal weight, caliber and velocity, it will usually outpenetrate the competition. That's because the XTP series were designed to be super deep penetrators compared to other JHPs (and part of the reason they are so popular with hunters). Corbon's Powerball line up tend to be quite shallow for their caliber, although part of how this is achieved is with lighter bullets that lose more weight as they ditch the plastic ball in their nose.

Example #2; heavy clothing can retard expansion enough to stop a bullet that would have fragmented from doing so, and thus cause the bullet to expand to a greater diameter. The result would be less penetration. I have found that the Federal .44 magnum 180 gr. JHP behaved that way in my tests (see the thread Perma-Gel Test Results, in the ammo forum).Sometimes, however a bullet will expand less, or not at all due to heavy cloth and as a result penetrate deeper.

As far as the .357 is concerned, it appers to me that Remington and probably Federal. have created a line up of cartridges that offer a wide range of performance. 110s are designed to have less velocity, milder recoil, less muzzle blast, and offer shallower penetration (probably ~ 10"). The 125 grainers are designed to offer 12"-14" and perform optimally against humans. Full power 125s are generally the most powerful loads in .357. 158s are generally a little deeper penetrating and a good compromise load that can work well for humans, and work well enough on deer. The 180s are deep penetrators designed for hunting deer and really offer no advantage for self defense over lighter weight bullets.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-31-2010, 01:14 PM
Absent Comrade
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 209
Likes: 27
Liked 30 Times in 10 Posts
Default

158 JHP by Winchester is the duty load for .357 with my agency. I have seen a suspect get hit three times, solid torso hits, one exited but did not travel far. In the 90's we switched from 125 JHP's by Remington because admin found out they would penetrate our body armor at the time. I would say the GD's should be just fine.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-31-2010, 03:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Liked 81 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Here is some information on the Firearms Tactical Institute website regarding the .357 mag the FBI and Factory data that contains penetration information.
.357 Magnum Ammunition Performance Data
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-31-2010, 07:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 2,228
Likes: 346
Liked 966 Times in 332 Posts
Default

I am a firm believer that in terms of liability you are in much more danger/risk from firing a miss and hitting what's behind the intended target than worrying about over penetration. Spend your time and attention to improving your marksmanship rather than worrying about which bullet does what.

Dave
__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-01-2010, 02:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Both the 125gr and 158gr Gold Dot loads are very high penetration ammo, according to the testing I have seen from Speer, personally I would save this for hunting/woods ammo.

The design of these bullets is why they penetrate so much, combined with the velocity.


Our old duty ammo back in the day was the 125gr Remington .357mag, this bullet showed rather shallow penetration in actual shootings, again due to bullet design combined with the velocity it was being pushed at. The same bullet in the .38 +P expanded and fragmented much less, and penetrated more.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-01-2010, 02:34 PM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 174
Liked 920 Times in 606 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWnTN View Post
Lighter bullets will almost always result in less penetration.
Yeah, your right when it comes to the .38 Special, I was thinking more on the lines of the 9mm. I know I use only 158gr or heavier bullets for all my .38 Special ammo. Very hard bullets or ball bullets will change the mix like I mentioned. The Gold Dots will work very well...
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
357 magnum, 380, 44 magnum, hornady, marksmanship, remington, tactical, winchester

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Ammo Thread, Your thoughts on 158GR 357 HP and over-penetration in Ammunition-Gunsmithing; I saw a few boxes of Speer GDHP 158 Grain 357s in the bargain bin today and grabbed them. Would ...
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
.44mag penetration dhom Reloading 11 03-09-2011 10:00 PM
Penetration jimmyj S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 10 12-09-2010 05:22 PM
S&W 500 Penetration--- UNBELIEVABLE Video sw282 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 20 09-06-2010 09:34 PM
Video on Penetration, Expansion Etc. AZ Desertrat Ammo 6 12-09-2009 12:44 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:13 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)