Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:45 AM
SW909Dude's Avatar
SW909Dude SW909Dude is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Self Defense Ammo

What is the best self defense ammo for a 9mm,specifically S&W 909?Thanks!
__________________
"Smith and Wesson 4life"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:29 AM
Erich's Avatar
Erich Erich is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: High Desert of NM, USA
Posts: 5,097
Likes: 4,391
Liked 5,047 Times in 1,624 Posts
Default

No test has been published which enables anyone to identify the "best" (the various expansion tests that people publish are interesting, but not really relevant to real-world "stopping" functionality). You would do well with any of the recent bullets from major makers. Look for Winchester Rangers, Speer Gold Dots and Remington Golden Sabers. Look for a 124-grain +P hollowpoint at a minimum. And test them to make sure that they function well and are accurate in your gun - guns are very individual with what they like sometimes.

Based on having done this, I carry Speer 124-gr +P short barrel Gold Dots in my 3" CZ RAMI and Winchester 127-gr +P+ Ranger (RA9TA) in my 4" Sigma. Your 909 (nice gun) has a 4" barrel . . . .

The most important thing is that you shoot your gun accurately and place your shots into the vitals. This requires your gun to function, it requires shot-placement, and it requires adequate penetration. (Note that I did not say "expansion": expansion is gravy, but it's not an essential. The best thing that expansion does for a 9mm is keep the bullet from coming out of the back of the bad guy and going through the school bus of kids behind him.) Any decent 9x19 JHP on the market should be able to handle this from your 909. There is no magic bullet, but you should be able to do well with any number of them out there.

Last edited by Erich; 07-28-2010 at 07:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:38 AM
SW909Dude's Avatar
SW909Dude SW909Dude is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich View Post
No test has been published which enables anyone to identify the "best". You would do well with any of the recent bullets from major makers. Look for Winchester Rangers, Speer Gold Dots and Remington Golden Sabers. Look for a 124-grain +P hollowpoint at a minimum. And test them to make sure that they function well and are accurate in your gun - guns are very individual with what they like sometimes.

Based on having done this, I carry Speer 124-gr +P short barrel Gold Dots in my 3" CZ RAMI and Winchester 127-gr +P+ Ranger (RA9TA) in my 4" Sigma.

The most important thing is that you shoot your gun accurately and place your shots into the vitals. This requires your gun to function, it requires shot-placement, and it requires adequate penetration. Any decent 9x19 JHP on the market should be able to handle this from your 908. There is no magic bullet, but you should be able to do well with any number of them out there.
Thanks for reply!I agree with everything you stated.The guy at the range told me to buy Corbon,he swore and praised and went on and on of what a great bullet they are, from the way they are manufactured to the way they are tested and the way there are individually inspected before packaging.VERY EXPENSIVE tho, which isn't a problem if there that good and you are defending your life or your family's life..........
__________________
"Smith and Wesson 4life"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:40 AM
Smith357's Avatar
Smith357 Smith357 is offline
Administrator
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 4,615
Likes: 927
Liked 3,376 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Most of todays premium SD ammo is generally pretty good, buy a little of everything and see which one works best in your gun. Even two guns that came off the line one after the other may digest the same ammo differently. Just stay clear of the weak, worthless and malfunction-prone 147 grain ammo in your 9mm.
__________________
Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:10 AM
Simmy952 Simmy952 is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: OH
Posts: 343
Likes: 3
Liked 27 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Whatever JHP that functions well with your weapon. Try a box or two and see what cycles through with the best accuracy and reliability. That is the one you use.

I seem to have the best luck with Winchester Ranger ammo. I also use a relative's reloads. He loads some home defense ammo that is top notch. That is what works the best for me. Some may say not to use reloads but I have not had any issues with mine. It is what I shoot and what I am use to.

Last edited by Simmy952; 07-28-2010 at 08:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-28-2010, 05:50 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,465
Likes: 130
Liked 1,519 Times in 866 Posts
Default

While I've been quite pleased with Cor-Bon 115 gr+P JHP, it's not the only round in the world. I tend to have Remington 115 gr +P in the first spare magazine and I'd happily carry Federal 9BP/C9BP in standard pressure loads. [Note, that while 9BP-LE (+P+) has a really good street record, Honolulu PD wasn't real happy about its performance on South Seas Islanders (think NFL linemen). Recall Erichs comment about penetration: there is such a thing a too much velocity for the bullet in use.]

The Remington will feed in anything that will feed ball, the Federal is very close. There's no bullet that will make up for a lack of practice/failure to place your shots well. In general, you want ready availability, good accuracy and be able to afford replacing your carry ammo at least yearly, every 6 months if possible.

Last edited by WR Moore; 07-28-2010 at 06:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:20 PM
ajpelz ajpelz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Desert of AZ
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
Just stay clear of the weak, worthless and malfunction-prone 147 grain ammo in your 9mm.
Here is what some of that worthless 147 grain looks like after being fired.... Scroll to the very bottom picture of the page...

Bullet results after firing
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:39 AM
Kanewpadle's Avatar
Kanewpadle Kanewpadle is offline
US Veteran
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wrong side of Washington
Posts: 8,228
Likes: 8,091
Liked 10,992 Times in 3,632 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW909Dude View Post
Thanks for reply!I agree with everything you stated.The guy at the range told me to buy Corbon,he swore and praised and went on and on of what a great bullet they are, from the way they are manufactured to the way they are tested and the way there are individually inspected before packaging.VERY EXPENSIVE tho, which isn't a problem if there that good and you are defending your life or your family's life..........

Corbon DPX is great ammo. And yes expensive. There are many great self defense loads available. As the other guys stated, find one and test it.

Corbon is really catching on. Some police departments have switched to it but most haven't due to the expense.

Winchester 127 +P+ has an outstanding reputation with law enforcement as does Speer 124+p.

I prefer the Winchester because I can find it locally in 50 round boxes for about $35.00.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:40 AM
Elmer Elmer is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 280
Likes: 2
Liked 23 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
Just stay clear of the weak, worthless and malfunction-prone 147 grain ammo in your 9mm.
It's unfortunate that thousands of law enforcement agencies such as LAPD, LA Sheriff, San Diego PD, etc., along with most legitimate wound ballistics experts, such as Dr. Martin Fackler, Dr. Gary Roberts, or Buford Boone of the FBI, haven't been privy to your sage advice, and continue using and recommending the 147 grain projectile for use in the 9mm, as they have for more than 20 years.

Perhaps they might be lucky enough to stumble in to this forum someday. Or maybe they could just pickup one of the gun magazines, where famous gun writers with vast experience shooting pine boards or water filled milk jugs, could similarly set them straight on their mistakes......
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:59 AM
Red Tex's Avatar
Red Tex Red Tex is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Quote:
What is the best self defense ammo for a 9mm
From my experience, just about any good quality JHP round would be A-OK. I've used Golden Sabers, Gold Dots, Winchester Ranger, Federal HST, and Hornady Critical Defense. It's all good.

Determining which of the above would be "best" is just picking nits.
__________________
With S&W, you're holding history in your hand
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:48 PM
Larry from Bend Larry from Bend is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC Montana
Posts: 840
Likes: 87
Liked 441 Times in 188 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW909Dude View Post
What is the best self defense ammo for a 9mm,specifically S&W 909?Thanks!
It's that particular ammo in which you have total confidence.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:02 PM
JC4013 JC4013 is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fort Worth,TX
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

This may be the wrong approach and perhaps a gross simplification, but generally regardless of the caliber I look to: 1) Does it have an advertised velocity of at least 1100 feet per second but not more than around 1300; 2) Does it generate at least 400 FPS of energy; 3) When I examine the bullet itself does the ogive, the shape of the round part, look like it will feed well, and; 4) Is the hollowpoint wide enough to expand and not so narrow that it will just plug up and act like hardball.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:51 PM
Elmer Elmer is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 280
Likes: 2
Liked 23 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC4013 View Post
This may be the wrong approach and perhaps a gross simplification, but generally regardless of the caliber I look to: 1) Does it have an advertised velocity of at least 1100 feet per second but not more than around 1300;
That would eliminate the majority of the ammunition carried today by law enforcement, including most of the loads tested and found to be the best performing by wound ballistic experts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:23 PM
mag318's Avatar
mag318 mag318 is offline
US Veteran
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 16
Liked 972 Times in 387 Posts
Default

Elmer, I totally disagree with your assesment of 147 grn loads. My department issued this weight load and it worked quite well with the vast majority of documented cases being one shot stops. Guys like Fackler and Roberts recommend this weight for good reason, it works.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:27 PM
Elmer Elmer is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 280
Likes: 2
Liked 23 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tex View Post
From my experience, just about any good quality JHP round would be A-OK. I've used Golden Sabers, Gold Dots, Winchester Ranger, Federal HST, and Hornady Critical Defense. It's all good.

Determining which of the above would be "best" is just picking nits.
Perhaps the most useful post in the thread.

Far more effort is often expended trying to find the "magic bullet" than in practicing with the firearm in question. That's always the advice given by any legitimate expert in the field of wound ballistics. Shot placement will always trump bullet selection.

Having said that, there are ways of determining which projectiles meet minimum standards. There is still ammunition being sold today, billed as "superior performance", that exhibits characteristics 180 degrees different than what is universally accepted as ideal by the majority of wound ballistics experts. Those rounds are often touted in gun magazines as having the best "stopping power", by famous gunwriters with little qualifications, and often financial ties to the companies they write about, (along with advertising dollars directed towards those magazines), or in a long ago discredited book.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-30-2010, 02:29 PM
Elmer Elmer is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 280
Likes: 2
Liked 23 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mag318 View Post
Elmer, I totally disagree with your assesment of 147 grn loads. My department issued this weight load and it worked quite well with the vast majority of documented cases being one shot stops. Guys like Fackler and Roberts recommend this weight for good reason, it works.
I guess my tongue in cheek didn't come across in my post.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:53 PM
cp1969's Avatar
cp1969 cp1969 is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 279
Liked 60 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmer View Post
Perhaps the most useful post in the thread.

Far more effort is often expended trying to find the "magic bullet" than in practicing with the firearm in question. That's always the advice given by any legitimate expert in the field of wound ballistics. Shot placement will always trump bullet selection.

Having said that, there are ways of determining which projectiles meet minimum standards. There is still ammunition being sold today, billed as "superior performance", that exhibits characteristics 180 degrees different than what is universally accepted as ideal by the majority of wound ballistics experts. Those rounds are often touted in gun magazines as having the best "stopping power", by famous gunwriters with little qualifications, and often financial ties to the companies they write about, (along with advertising dollars directed towards those magazines), or in a long ago discredited book.
I agree that Red Tex's post was very good. However, yours is at least equally good.

The thing is, the "best" bullet is something that can be bought; it's the easiest thing in the world to do. Acquiring the ability to make a bullet go where you want it isn't something that can be bought. What people find hard to accept is that the "best" bullet isn't going to make up for poor shot placement.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-31-2010, 09:54 AM
tpd223 tpd223 is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 9 Posts
Default

This is a good read;

Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads - M4Carbine.net Forums


In 9mm we have had very good service from the 124gr +P Gold Dot, for many years. This is the same ammo issued by NYPD and it has worked well for them also.

LAPD has had very good service from the 147gr Ranger-T for many years.

Basically I would carry any 124gr to 147gr name brand premium load, the Ranger-T, HST, and Gold Dot are top choices, also the 115gr Cor Bon DPX is a superb loading.


Lots of good reading here as well;

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/

Last edited by tpd223; 07-31-2010 at 10:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-31-2010, 12:04 PM
Kanewpadle's Avatar
Kanewpadle Kanewpadle is offline
US Veteran
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wrong side of Washington
Posts: 8,228
Likes: 8,091
Liked 10,992 Times in 3,632 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tex View Post
From my experience, just about any good quality JHP round would be A-OK. I've used Golden Sabers, Gold Dots, Winchester Ranger, Federal HST, and Hornady Critical Defense. It's all good.

Determining which of the above would be "best" is just picking nits.
How true.

Too many people put too much effort into ammo selection. Ammo selection should be given equal consideration as well as gun, holster, carry method, training, and practice considerations. It should not be placed above those considerations.

For personal defense to be effective it must be a total and complete package.

As far as "experts", there aren't any. Those that study ballistics and compile statics, in the end can only form their own opinion. The problem with so called experts is that they can all study the same facts and they still have differing findings and opinions. One man's opinion ain't good enough for me.

There are no majic bullets. If there were the "experts" would have already designed it. Nobody can guess or predict how any bullet design will work each and every time it's used. There are far too many variables.

We must all choose our own savation. Pick a load that works in your gun, is accurate, and easy to find if you need more.

If the first one or two bullets don't have the desired affect, shoot the son a gun again!

Just my 2 cents.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:52 AM
Elmer Elmer is offline
Member
Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo Self Defense Ammo  
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 280
Likes: 2
Liked 23 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post

As far as "experts", there aren't any. Those that study ballistics and compile statics, in the end can only form their own opinion. The problem with so called experts is that they can all study the same facts and they still have differing findings and opinions. One man's opinion ain't good enough for me.
Well, actually there are experts, and no, one of them's opinion shouldn't be enough for anyone.

But when many of them see similar outcomes, and they, as a group, form peer reviewed theories based on that data, it's worth considering.

Last edited by Elmer; 08-02-2010 at 01:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hornady, projectiles, remington, scroll, sigma, winchester

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
31-1 defense ammo Cal44 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 16 07-15-2014 08:59 PM
Best Practice Ammo vs Defense Ammo Tom Goodrick Ammo 18 07-08-2012 01:05 PM
self defense ammo 19max99 Ammo 2 09-09-2011 07:42 PM
9mm defense ammo firebirdude Ammo 27 02-11-2011 10:12 PM
Best Self-Defense Ammo for 642? NavJAG06 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 50 03-07-2009 02:37 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:42 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)