Ok I know I am new to all of this, but this has me stumped. I bought these at a gun show over the weekend to shoot in my Vintage S&W M&P. Since the box said .38 Special Super Match, I thought they were just very accurate .38 special rounds.

1. The Rim is smaller by about .035 and is beveled.

2. All else is the same, case length, diameter etc.

3. I have NO Clue what grain size the wad cutter is, not marked on the box. They do seem very heavy though compared to the 158 grain Federal .38 special next to it.

4. The wad-cutter has two crimping lines on the case.

5. The head stamp on the wad cutter is Western - 38 spl - SR

shown with a vintage Federal 158 Gr .38 Special

What I need to know is, can I shoot these out of my .38 special S&W M&P? They seem to fit fine and the ejector will remove them from the cylinder.

If I can't shoot these out of my M&P, would any of you guys want these. I would trade them for 2 boxes reg either wad cutter or SWC or round nose .38 special. Or I would sell them for $35 + $8.00 S&H in the lower 48. BTW there are 45 rounds in the box, the way it came when I bought it.

Hello -

Looks like what you have is a commercial box of a cartridge also sometimes known as the .38 AMU. This was a target cartridge designed for a predecessor of the Model 52. I forget the model number, but it may have been the Model 47 or 147. I don't have my Jinks book here at the office, but he gives the history of the gun and the cartridge. I know I have an example or two of the cartridges marked .38AMU, but I don't recall seeing the SR version you have. I suppose it could be a different animal, but I don't think so.

In any case, while the .38 AMU would be safe to shoot in any gun that was safe with .38 Special ammo, it may have enough collectable value that it would be a shame to shoot it up.

Jeff

I agree, .38 AMU for the Model 52-A, S&W made 3 steel framed prototypes and 87 with alloy frame for the Army, circa 61-64.

Well if they are collectable, I am willing to trade or sell them. I just want .38 special ammo to shoot as I am not an ammo collector. I looked the SW 52 up, nice looking piece.

If I remember correctly the 38 AMU[Army Markmanship Unit] was designed with the case of the 38 Special, and the Rim of the 38 Super.

The idea was for a very accurate cartridge to compete in the Centerfire stages of Bullseye Pistol Matches, that could be fired in a modified 1911.

The 38 Super just did not give the required accuracy.

I know that Jim Clark made guns in 38 AMU.

S&W developed the Mod 52 finding in the process that they could make the gun feed with regular 38 Special ammo.

I am not sure if Custom gunsmiths figured our how to make the 1911 feed the 38 Special before or after S&W, but once could get 1911's in the Special case the 38 AMU fell by the wayside.

I have used both a 38 Special 1911 and a S&W Mod 52 in Bullseye Competition.

Congratulations on an unusual and maybe rare find. The last time I saw a full box of those, I was still in high school and LBJ was still in the Whitehouse. The 38 AMU ammo was never common.

38 Spl WC conversions of 1911s were fairly common at one time. Some of them shot very well, but most had problems with the magazines. The process of converting the mags to take a rimmed cartridge was complex and there was a high failure rate. They were hard to maintain and just about anything that went wrong would turn them into paper weights.

Colt introduced a 38 Midrange National Match about '61 or so. It was different from the conversions in that it did not have a locked breech. It was a retarded blowback action with opening delayed by annular rings cut into the chamber. The brass flowed into these rings and slowed the slide. Hard on the extractor. The best thing about this pistol was that it ment that good factory 38 Spl magazines were available.

The 38 AMU was an attempt to solve the feeding problems in 1911s. The few guns I've seen in this caliber were stamped 38 AMU on the slide, if made by Colt. The Army converted some 1911s to the AMU configuration, but I've never seen one. I've only known one person who used the 38 AMU for the center fire portion, and he made his ammunition by turning the rim of regular 38 Spl cases.

I'll be glad to trade you some factory wadcutter for those boxes of ammo. A PM will be headed your way shortly.

RWJ

Hi RWJ, sent you an email back. Trade is a deal. Thanks, enjoy the .38 special super-match semi-rimmed ammuntion.

I just purchased (500) rounds of vintage Winchester-Western 148 grain wadcutter's in true .38Spl. Supposed to be extremely accurate. I wouldn't know as I have not fired any.





I was suprized to learn the history of your boxes. Very neat!

Anyone margin a guess as to the vintage of the ones pictured here?

Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x