I have both .38's and .357's. My home protection gun is a 686-4(P) seven shot that is one of my favorites. My carry gun is a 640-1 five shot, also one of my favorites. I like the idea of .357 ammo, but have heard several folks talk about permanent hearing loss if you fire one of these inside. Right now I have .38 +P Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain loaded in the big 686P. I have .357 Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain loaded in the smaller 640-1. So my question...what would be the best home defense round in the 686P assuming it would be fired inside? Also, what would be the best carry defense round for the 640-1...could be fired inside or outside...??

Any advice will be appreciated! Thanks, Bassoneer

The Speer +P 135gr SB is considered by many to be a good self defense load, and at inside the house ranges should be adaquate. Sure a hot 357 load offers a slight bit more knockdown power, at the risk of ringing ears and saying "huh what did you say, or say that again" for the rest of your life. Ultimately, it is your decision on what ammo to use.

I don't think I'd bother picking a self defense round on decibel rate. The shorter barrel will be louder with any given load, and the magnum will run at least 100+fps faster then the .38+P in the same barrel length. Most shoot out survivors talk about "audio exclusion", where they never hear the gun or see anything else but the threat.

That's true and I have experienced this while hunting. However, though you don't notice the sound, audio exclusion has nothing to do with the physical damage to your ears. It still happens.

Bassoneer, it's really up to you whether or not the extra damage to your ears is worth what you think is the additional stopping power. For me, the 38+P has been working for a long time and you have 7 rounds. I would even carry the .38+P GD in the J frame.
I mean, if the difference was, you have a .25ACP Baby Browning and it's either that or a .357 round, I'd take the .357.

There is no such thing as a hearing safe handgun -- especially if fired indoors -- but some are worse than others. With all other things being equal the general rule is that the higher the chamber pressure the higher the sound level. It's not quite as simple as that but it a good guideline.

Noise wise, The 38 spl +P will be about equal to the 45 ACP. Typically about 155 dB. Cartridges like 9mm, 40 S&W and 357 will be at least 10 dB higher. Each 3 dB is a doubling of the sound level so a 10 dB difference means the sound level is 10 time as large though the human ear will perceive it as twice as "loud".

Ultimately it is up to you to choose so I suggest you go to an indoor range -- wear good hearing protection, please -- and fire a few of each just to get an idea of the difference.

Also consider keeping a pair of inexpensive compact electronic muffs near the gun.

carry the round that yout shoot most accurately and consistently. The plus P is a good round...the .357 provides more knock down providing you hit the target...It provides no knock down if you miss....If you shoot both about as accurately, then I would go with the .357....my little 120 pound 5'2" wife has the .357 near and close by should she need it for home defense and she carries the .38 spl (110 grn hydra shock-low recoil) as her carry gun....mostly because it is lighter and easier to carry...we shoot both at the range and she is slightly more accurate with the 38 but still not so off with the .357 that it would negate her using the heavier hotter round

I have always been concerned over using a 357 Magnum inside a modern constructed house in a typical suburban neighborhood because of the possibility of a stray bullet going somewhere I would not want it to. No doubt that if you hit your target, the 357 would do a much better job at stopping a threat than the 38 special, but darkness, stress, etc. makes it more difficult to accomplish that.

That is why I mostly rely on my Remington 870 12 gauge (7 shot) loaded with #1 Buck shot. I do keep a handgun handy, but it is not my first line of defense for a home invasion. The shotgun is less likely to over penetrate, will do a better job of stopping the threat, and I would think that I am less likely to miss with it. I do regularly shoot it at the range for practice, but probably not as much as I should. Just might take it for an outing this weekend!

chief38

A 12 gauge with buck shot is my reach for gun if I might be defending me and mine in my home. I don't care who you are and how much practice you have had when a threat is in your home the adrenalin pumps and you are NOT the same person as on the range.

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The quick the steady the alive.

For the hearing issue I usually go with the .38+p or a good standard .38 load. Considering the wide range of calibers and quality bullet designs we have and if the high pressure .357 can cause permanent hearing damage, there is no reason to use it inside a building where you may damage your hearing, unless that is your only choice.

If you feel a .38 load is not enough, try a .41, .44 special or .45, they will have more power and still have lower chamber pressure.

Sometimes I think the "I use the full house .357 all the time, my hearing be damned" crowd is suffering from some compensating machismo. If you know that there is a chance you will harm yourself in some way and you can plan ahead and avoid it, that is the smart thing to do. When I have hunted with Weatherby calibers (huge chamber pressure, noise and kick like a mule team) especially is rifles equipped with muzzle breaks, I use and carry spare hearing protection. Some buddies laugh at me, but they are also guys who constantly say "What? Speak up!" every day. I use and hunt with full .357s, 10mm, .454, you name it I use it and I use it loaded hot, but I wear muffs of earplugs. I don't think in a self defense situation, though, muffs or plugs are a good idea, you need your hearing in that situation unobstructed. So you compromise on caliber.

Bottom line, if you are in a dangerous situation where all you have is .357s, blast away, you can't hear dead. But if you aren't in immediate threat, try to plan ahead where the only person who suffers is the bad guy.

This issue has the legs to go a long way!!! For me it's not simply a noise issue. I have homes with kids on almost all sides so the stray bullet is the number 1 issue with me. What can you consistantly place on the target? But don't feel like in a stress situation you will be able to shoot that well.

For me it's the .38. However I do feel the shotgun is best overall. Great knockdown power and if you miss the house structure will absorb the round and not blow away the 9 year old next door.

If it was me, I'd just switch the loads between the two guns. The 686 would be easier to fire the .357's out of than the J-frame. Actually, on second thought I'd get a better .357 load than the short barrel .357 for the 686(if you don't believe me look at the velocities advertised on Speer's website), and keep both Gold Dot loads for the J-frame.

Interesting thread, this.....

My two daily carry revolvers are a model 638 (loaded with Federal .38 Special +P 158-grain LSWCHP's or Hydra-Shok +P 129-grainers), and a newly "de-locked" model 649 with Federal .357 Mag 158-grain Hydra-Shoks. I would not feel undergunned with the 638 and +P's, versus the full-house .357 Mags. But it's comforting to know that that extra "oomph" is there in my belt, should the need present itself.

As others here have stated, hitting the target where you aim is paramount. Might be a good practice routine to lower the range lights (if possible where you shoot), and practice a little point-shooting with your revolver. I've done that for years with my snubbies, just like throwing a softball at a target 7 yards away.....just infinitely more forceful.

649Guy

I think if I have to fire a gun in my dwelling I am more concerned about stoping the threat and where are my rounds going. After 20 years in the the military and firing a few guns in my time, I'm going with a double barrel coach gun backed up by the .357. Nothing wrong with the +p but if I have to fight in the house I'm using every advantage.

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Thanks Rob

Strictly answering the question, I'd go with the + P.

As others say, not only will your hearing suffer with the 357, but so will your sight after being blinded by the muzzle flash of a 357.
Here's a little story and my 2 cents--Read an old article by Skeeter Skelton I think, who mentioned both these things. (yes, I am getting chronologically challenged!)

As luck would have it, I was at the range a few wks later playing with sights on a 6" bbl. revolver. Forgot to put the muffs back on before letting off a 357 round--NOT GOOD! Ears rang for minutes. Took a break for a few minutes and got to thinking about the article. Went back in to the range and turned the lights off (there was still some residual light) and let off another 357. BIG ball of flame, the size of a basketball--then couldn't even pick up the target again for another 5 to 10 seconds--an eternity in a self defense mode. If you're going to use a 38/357--use the plus P is my recommendation

Just a couple of notes: First, with regard to concerns about penetration of building materials, either +P .38s or .357s will go through lots of layers of wallboard without stopping. Your best plan is to hit the torso of the home invader. I have actually had the opportunity to do some testing of various loads by shooting up an old house I was about to demolish. Most good self-defense JHPs in handgun loads will zip through at least 6-8 layers of sheetrock and keep on truckin', unless you hit a stud or a brick or stone exterior wall. Sheetrock is particularly good at plugging up a hollowpoint and making it act like ball. If you want to limit wall penetration, a .223 loaded with varmint bullets or a shotgun with #4 Buck or smaller shot will be much better. By the way, 00 Buck will also penetrate multiple layers of sheetrock, and the hottest .357 magnum 125gr. JHPs will likely penetrate less building materials than will a heavier, slower +P .38 bullet.

As to hearing concerns, I say, "Huh?" My ears have been ringing since my 15th birthday, when I got a .22 magnum revolver and shot a couple of cylinders full of magnums while standing next to a cinder block wall, without ear protection. Years of exposure to gunfire with inadequate ear protection, and to loud machinery with no hearing protection, have caused me to lose quite a bit of hearing. Nonetheless, concerns about my hearing are way down my list when it comes to choosing a self-defense load. Someone has commented that you can't hear if you're dead. Yep; as we say here in Texas, "There you go." My usual carry guns are 9x23s, which have the sound energy of a hot .357 mag. load, and the same ballistics. Best option if you are really concerned about hearing issues is to keep a set of electronic amplifying muffs next to the bed. If you have time to don them and turn them on, they will not only protect your hearing, but will amplify sounds made by an intruder.

As to not hearing a thing during a gunfight I can speak from experience. During my time as a LEO I had to use deadly force more than once to defend myself and others. Not once did I hear a thing (hotel lobby, inside a liquor store & in a parking lot), my hearing is fine (.38 spl. each time) and I'm still around to tell the story.

My favorite ammo for indoors is the FBI Load. I find the 158gr LSWC/HP bullet to work very well especially at the velocities associated with +P pressures. When shot from a 4" barrel the FBI Load is very hard to beat. (even now)

As for the M640 I can only tell you what I carry in my M640. My M640 for some reason just loves 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo. That ammo shoots better in that revolver than any other. Of course that doesn't mean it will shoot well in your M640 but it's worth a try.

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SWCA #3437

If you can handle the recoil in a small handgun .357 125 gr
hollow point is the most effective handgun round when shooting a human attacker. I would worry about the potenrial hearing loss after my attacker is "neutralized".
There are plenty of variations made by Rem,Hornady but they are all in the 125 gr hollow point neighborhood.
38+p has nearly the same potential to damage hearing but not the same juice .357 has. Get a 649 great shooter with either round

Sorry but I can't agree with that statement. The crack of a .357 Magnum is much sharper than any .38 Special +P I've ever fired. The only exception is the 135gr Speer Short Barrel .357 Magnum round which is only rated @ 990 fps. (hardly a .357 Magnum at all)

Also, don't forget about the excessive flash produced by a .357 Magnum especially when in a small dark room. (like your bedroom in the middle of the night) IMO touching off a .357 Magnum in the house at night is just like setting off a flash-bang. Of course this is only my opinion...

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SWCA #3437

Boy did this thread go all over the place
My 2 pennies...I farmed for years and in defense of the crops...We found ourselves out at night killing rabbits from the back of a moving truck lights out till we knew there was a rabbit to be had. The flash of a 12 gauge is not an issue and the volume is not an issue for the most part till many rounds were fired.
At home in the dark it's shotgun all the way for me.

In my daily life, if ever in a firefight, I can only imagine that that desperate situation would not have me thinking about flash or volume, but surviving. I have never had much of an issue with volume with 1 exception...The .45 auto creates so much pressure that it literally hurts my ears.

.357 isn't worth it until you get to a 4" bbl IMO. In a 2" bbl I would stick with +P if you need more horsepower. In a light snubby I would stick to regular .38 because of flash & recoil on a double tap. Bigger is not always better. .357 Mag works great in an N Frame revolver with a 4" or longer barrel. This is where you get some "bang" for your buck.

Since this post started on my birthday I'll offer my two cents, albeit a bit late. My home defense gun is a 2.5" Model 19 loaded with Buffalo Bore .38 +P 158 gr. for all the same reasons as those before me stated. Best and hope you never need to use it . . .