Light .357s in K-frame Smiths.

[CCantu357]

Just wanted to make a rant. For years I always heard that the light .357 loads will abuse a K-frame .357s. However I have to make an excpetion. I do know for a fact the light, 125 grain full power load will abuse that forcing like crazy, but I have been using the 110 grain WWB JHP load for years with no ill effect. I know the Border Patrol as well as many police departments used it as well with good results. I suppsoe I just hate to see this good round get a bad rap. Its easy on the gun and easy on the shooter, while giving more power than a .38 Special.

[WR Moore]

If you look at the pressures developed by both rounds, the 110 gr loads don't operate at anything like that of the 125's. Check out the load data from any of the powder manufacturers.

One of the big things to keep in mind was that the K frame 357s were designed in an era where the vast majority of shooting was done with target or standard velocity .38s.

[Steve C]

The full power .357 mag 125 gr load @ 1,450 fps became known for cracking the K frame forcing cone. As happens on the internet someone speculated that the 125 bullet is relatively light, the 110gr is a light bullet too, therefore they should produce similar cracking but this was shear speculation without any actual proof. As things go on the internet, if repeated enought times, speculation becomes accepted wisdom and proof, facts, or truth is irrelevant. I have never seen any proof through actual tests or multiple K frame owners reporting cracked forcing cones when they used 110 gr loads only, so I've always been skeptical of the assertion that the 125gr problems extend to the 110 gr loads.

The 110 gr factory loads have always been more sedate than the 125gr full power loads, running at appropriately 200 fps less muzzle velocity.

[Nick B]

Originally Posted by Steve C

The full power .357 mag 125 gr load @ 1,450 fps became known for cracking the K frame forcing cone. As happens on the internet someone speculated that the 125 bullet is relatively light, the 110gr is a light bullet too, therefore they should produce similar cracking but this was shear speculation without any actual proof. As things go on the internet, if repeated enought times, speculation becomes accepted wisdom and proof, facts, or truth is irrelevant. I have never seen any proof through actual tests or multiple K frame owners reporting cracked forcing cones when they used 110 gr loads only, so I've always been skeptical of the assertion that the 125gr problems extend to the 110 gr loads.

The 110 gr factory loads have always been more sedate than the 125gr full power loads, running at appropriately 200 fps less muzzle velocity.

Well that's good to know because someone just gave me 2 fifty count boxes of Winchester 110 grain hp's .

[ContinentalOp]

Winchester 110gr SJHP were my favorite .357 Magnum loads to shoot in my 65. Very easy handling. As others have said, they're loaded considerably lighter than the full-power 125gr loads. I think the advertised velocity was 1295fps from a 4" barrel, IIRC. I would've used it as a carry load if it wasn't for the huge fireball that came out the muzzle every time I fired them; I prefer low-flash loads for SD/HD.

[PeterCartwright]

I sorta thought Remington brought out their 125 gr. (medium load) Golden Saber for this purpose?

PC

[mscampbell2734]

Originally Posted by PeterCartwright

I sorta thought Remington brought out their 125 gr. (medium load) Golden Saber for this purpose?

PC

I read that somewhere myself. I was on the ranger yesterday and chrono'd some Remington 125 gr half jackets loads, the full power stuff, and out of my 4" 586 it clocked an honest 1425 fps. Powerful stuff. But I've also heard from more then one source that shooting that load indoors WILL, no doubt about it, cause serious hearing loss. Everything is a trade off.

[semperfi71]

With the actual evidence we have had posted in this forum it is a distinct possibility that 125 grain .357 magnum loads will damage K-Frame revolvers. Also, others have posted proof here that their K-Frame revolvers have suffered no ill effects of the same load.

Perhaps some have extrapolated this to 110 grain loads. Perhaps some one has proven that 110 grain loads are also "bad".

I know that several years ago I tried a series of reloads with 110 grain Remington bullets and slow burning powders. I could not get enough powder in the cases to achieve full potential velocities. Maybe the medium burning powders can do that. This might explain why the factory loaded 110 grain loads do not seem to be as "hot" as the 125 grain loads.

I personally err on the side of caution since K-Frame barrels are no longer made for the K-Frame .357 revolvers I shoot.

Tis a shame because I originally wanted to strictly shoot 110 and 125 grain loads in my K-Frames.

[federali]

I don't think the K frame models were ever envisioned as being able to withstand a steady diet of full house loads. As someone else said here, back in the day, LE agencies often qualified with wadcutter ammo and fired off their street ammo primarily to rotate in some fresh ammo.

[ifjpm]

I called thr S&W factory and asked them if it was safe to shoot 125gr. 357 in the K frame revolvers. Their response was if its chambered for 357 than it would be OK to shoot 125gr. 357 in the handgun. They further stated that it was also OK to shoot them in the newer J frame guns also.

[USMC586]

My 586 has ingested hundreds if not a thousand 110's without fail. My old 686 saw even more and ran like a top.

However, I no longer take any chances with bullets under 125 in a titanium cylinder gun, because of my previous experiences. I had a .357 Taurus Total Titanium that I had fired about 50-75 110's through until.....the cylinder started to erode. There was also a small amount of forcing cone erosion as well. Their explaination was the setback and shorter bullet allows more of a flame to develop behind the bullet. The flame front acts like a blow torch. One could argue a .38 would do that to but they said it was the higher psi of the .357 causing the increased chance of problems. After a return to the factory for new components I sold it.

I replaced the Taurus with a 340 and will not shoot anything less than 125's out of it. This under 125 grain concern may only apply to the titanum cylinder J frame size guns, as the guns are marked to shoot nothing less than 125 grain ammo. I can not comment on larger frame .357 titanium cylinder guns.

This was my own scenario but I do not want to repeat it. Your mileage may vary.

[chief38]

The 125's are still a good defense load. Just keep them relegated for that purpose and use 158's for practice and familiarization. Fire a couple so you know where your POA/POI is, and then carry them.


Chief38

[browntown]

I too believe in the heavier bullet (158) with a lower charge of unique. They seem to do fine in my old 66 if I don't make them super hot.

[roaddog28]

Originally Posted by USMC586

My 586 has ingested hundreds if not a thousand 110's without fail. My old 686 saw even more and ran like a top.

However, I no longer take any chances with bullets under 125 in a titanium cylinder gun, because of my previous experiences. I had a .357 Taurus Total Titanium that I had fired about 50-75 110's through until.....the cylinder started to erode. There was also a small amount of forcing cone erosion as well. Their explaination was the setback and shorter bullet allows more of a flame to develop behind the bullet. The flame front acts like a blow torch. One could argue a .38 would do that to but they said it was the higher psi of the .357 causing the increased chance of problems. After a return to the factory for new components I sold it.

I replaced the Taurus with a 340 and will not shoot anything less than 125's out of it. This under 125 grain concern may only apply to the titanum cylinder J frame size guns, as the guns are marked to shoot nothing less than 125 grain ammo. I can not comment on larger frame .357 titanium cylinder guns.

This was my own scenario but I do not want to repeat it. Your mileage may vary.

You have a good point and this is the reason I don't shoot lighter grain 357 magnum ammo in any of my 357 revolvers. Slower burning powders, a slightly shorter length round and how the powder is loaded can erode a forcing cone sooner in any revolver. I have not used the 110 gr ammo. So I don't have experience with it.
This what I do know. Just about any 357 magnum revolver made was made to shoot 158 gr ammo. The original round was 158 gr LSWC round. As time went on, "experts" determine that a lighter grain round would be more effective on the "street". I don't believe everything read in a book or on the internet. Its simple for me. I use 158 gr ammo clean my revolvers and don't worry about "wearing out my revolver". I stick to what the manufacturer recommends. The 110 gr stuff maybe cheaper, but I would rather pay a little more for the 158 gr rounds and not have to replace my barrel on any of my 357 revolvers.
Regards,
Howard