Super Vel 38 special and Federal Nyclad 357 Magnum

[Krim1234]

I just bought some random 357 magnum and some 38 special ammo because the price was right. They are all older, the 38 says super vel 110 grain jhp and the federal nyclad is 158 grain lswchp 357 magnum. There’s also some Federal 110 plus p which I have found was considered “the treasury load” alongside the Winchester loading. I bought it all for cheap and I planned on shooting it. Is it worth more to a collector or should I just run it downrange and shoot it? Code on the nyclad is 357E, code on the treasury load is 38F. Thanks for the help/input!

[LoboGunLeather]

I need to follow you around! You have some very collectible ammo there, the original SuperVel's in particular. The NyClad .357 is also very desirable stuff.

[jframejoey]

Wish I had stumbled into even one box of that 357 Nyclad.

[Rubone]

I got a new unused box of Nyclad .38 when I purchased this model '36 a couple years back. It was bought at the same time as the gun. I have no plans to use it, it just sits on the shelf with the other oddballs.

[jamestx]

I love the Nyclad ammo wish I still had a box. The super vel I never had the pleasure of trying it out, the treasurers +p+ load I bought cheap years ago at a gun show now today it’s ridiculously expensive. Great find

[Rushing1]

I've got 5 38 Nyclads in my 642, because this particular pistol is most accurate with with them!

I think they are a good self defense load, even though I read they were developed for ranges to produce reduced lead.

Picked these up maybe 20 years ago at a gun show.

[Dave Lively]

I saw this article where someone had Super Vel tested for pressure and it was about 10% over the SAAMI limit for +P and 27% over the limit for regular 38. This ammo was made before there was a +P spec. If you do decide to shoot it avoid doing so out of any gun you wouldn't feel comfortable shooting +P 38s through.

It certainly sounds like something a collector would be interested in. I wouldn't shoot it until you find out.

[wheelgun28]

A few years ago the Super Vels (if full of original cartridges) was bringing around $50.00 a box. Probably more now...

Ny clads allso have a good following.

I wouldn't be shooting them up.

I did buy an open half box of Super Vels and tried some out. Slightly more kick but nothing magic shooting paper.

In the early 1970's my dad bought a new M36 and a box of Super Vels. I still have the receipt someplace. He carried them for quite some time.

[Johnnu2]

I was told (many years ago) by a police forensics guy that Nyclad bullets are next to impossible to ID to the gun they were fired in. I have no idea if that's true or not(?)
Does anyone know why Nyclads are no longer produced...?

[LoboGunLeather]

Originally Posted by Johnnu2

I was told (many years ago) by a police forensics guy that Nyclad bullets are next to impossible to ID to the gun they were fired in. I have no idea if that's true or not(?)
Does anyone know why Nyclads are no longer produced...?

My recollection is that the Nyclad ammo was developed for LE use on indoor ranges to reduce or eliminate airborne lead dust (health hazard). Then there was a public uproar when people started claiming that Nyclad would penetrate police soft body armor, so the mainstream media began screaming about "cop killer bullets" and Federal withdrew the product line from the market. Since that time there have been several reports of generally excellent results (penetration and expansion testing) for defensive use.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by Johnnu2

Does anyone know why Nyclads are no longer produced...?

My guess? $$$$

Probably just didn't sell well enough for Federal to justify continued production. They did bring back the .38 Special 125gr Nyclad, my favorite low recoil snub load, a few years ago, but discontinued it soon after. I bought some and still have a few boxes left.

Never knew they made a .357 Magnum Nyclad, though. Back in the 90s I had some 9mm 124gr Nyclads. Supposedly they were considered the best choice in 9mm for home defense because they had the least penetration through building materials of various HP tested. I'm pretty sure I still have some back at my parents' house, but I'm not sure if I have any of the original boxes. I may have to check next time I visit home.

[Dave Lively]

Originally Posted by Johnnu2

Does anyone know why Nyclads are no longer produced...?

Some people thought the Nyclads expanded a little too well, coming apart in strong calibers and having inadequate penetration in weak calibers.

They still make Nyclad style ammo for range use but call it Syntech these days.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by Dave Lively

They still make Nyclad style ammo for range use but call it Syntech these days.

Being a fan of Nyclads, I was curious and looked it up. Federal makes personal defense Syntech rounds, but they're very different from Nyclads. Nyclads were basically lead hollowpoints with a polymer coating. Syntech rounds, according to Federal's website, are designed to break up into 3 segments plus the core.

The training rounds are RN bullets. I didn't dig too deeply, but it looks like they're only offered in 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP.

[rockquarry]

Originally Posted by Dave Lively

I saw this article where someone had Super Vel tested for pressure and it was about 10% over the SAAMI limit for +P and 27% over the limit for regular 38. This ammo was made before there was a +P spec. If you do decide to shoot it avoid doing so out of any gun you wouldn't feel comfortable shooting +P 38s through.

It certainly sounds like something a collector would be interested in. I wouldn't shoot it until you find out.

In HANDLOADER magazines #26 & #27 (fifty years ago) there's some good information on pressures, etc. on Super Vel .38 Special ammo. Velocities and pressures were pretty much where they should have been. Granted, testing equipment and it's accuracy has likely improved in fifty years. The articles also include pressure and velocity testing of other hot factory ammo that was produced at the time, before the "+P" designation.

Super Vel ammo was still in production when the the HANDLOADER articles were published. The ammo seemed to be very popular at the time and no one questioned whether a particular revolver was suited for use with such a factory loading. However, I would guess most who used this or similar ammunition didn't shoot much of it and only fired enough to verify point of impact, etc.

I don't recall the accuracy level of Super Vel ammo in comparison with other .38 Special loadings, but, at the time, the high velocity was more important to users than was the accuracy. Super Vel offered bullets for sale to handloaders. I had some .38 Special 110 grain HP Super Vel component bullets. I measured the diameter, but don't recall what that was. They were undersized to the point that they didn't work well with .38 Special dies that did fine with other jacketed and cast bullets.

Whether all Super Vel .38 bullets were undersize or not, I don't know, but it would certainly be a good way to keep pressures down.

[Eddie Southgate]

Super Vel went out of business then was sold and operated for several years as Triton . Triton went out and last I heard someone had started selling Super Vel again in I think either Reno or Las Vegas .

I loved their stuff in the 70's and the 135 gr Triton ammo is all I ever shot in my .40 S&W Kahr . Not seen any of the new Super Vel in the stores but they had a website last I looked .

If I bought what you bought I would sell everything but the Super Vel If I could make a good profit . The Super Vel I would keep for old times sake .

Shop All - Page 1 - Super Vel Ammunition

PS : Didn't look close enough at the third picture and missed the Norma 158 gr .357 . That would stay with me also . Have none of that in factory loads but I shot up a bunch in the late 60's and early 70"s for the brass . Still shooting it today and consider it and the Super Vel to be real treasures , no way I'd sell either one but might be interested in it if you decide to sell some .

[Krim1234]

I just ended up picking up 5 more boxes of 38 special supervel in 50 round boxes today!

[BillBond]

It has been over 10 years but I sold all my nyclad for a nice profit.
I had about a case and it all sold to one guy.

[moosedog]

I had a cold case homicide where the husband killed his wife with a 38 Nyclad round to the head.
The lab told me the same thing about the Nyclad coating not imprinting the rifling imperfections the way metal does. Plus it heats up going down the barrel and then shrinks some when cooled.
I don't know if that had anything to do with the reason they stopped making it but I guess it could have.

[SG-688]

From a report at the time by my memory: The first prototype Nyclad gave the examiners fits when they tested it. As a result, S&W changed the thickness of the coating and all was well again.

Some did confuse the blue color Nyclad with green color KTW (Teflon) -- in a classic episode of Cops for one -- but none of it is or was AP.

A KTW competitor did color their bullets a very dark blue that would not be confused by anyone who knew anything.
(Yeah, don't ask me now - 40 years later - what company that was.)

[SG-688]

I don't have documentation for .38 Special, but this 9 mm data I posted previously is interesting.

============================

Lee Juras, owner of Super Vel, published a report on his test of military 9 mm "submachinegun" ammunition in the March, 1972 Shooting Times. It was all well within standard pressure, including WWII German black tip.

US commercial and Super Vel 9 mm were included for comparison and also were within standard pressures. The S&W/F was higher than the Super Vel.

The lowest tested was 24,800 while the highest (Canadian 1945) was 32,500.

======================================


No. 3 pressure barrel; min. chamber; 6 inches long; WRA .225 x .500 copper crusher; tarage table 11366; 72 degrees F .. 55 per cent R/ H. Velocity instrumental at 20 feet.

Super Vel 9mm 90 JHP 31,000 (ave. pressure) 1415 FPS

Super Vel 9mm 112 JSP 31.700 (ave. pressure) 1349 FPS

S&W/F 9mm 100 JHP 32,100 (ave. pressure) 1433 FPS

[JOliver]

Those are my favorites, My grandfather was a LEO and I grew up on Supervel, Nyclad and the Federal +P+ .38 Hydrashocks.
A few years after he passed I found his carry bag that was hid in a footlocker in his closet. There were several pairs of handcuffs and all sorts of goodies that were his prized possessions when he was in the road and the foot locker had several boxes of all the listed ammo.
I shot a few boxes to see how it performed and still have several boxes full that I carry to this day. Great ammo I always liked the Nyclad and the .357 Nyclad is hot. The supervel is hot! But my favorite of the 3 is the .38 plus P plus .38 hydrashock. When shooting them you know real quick that the +P+ rounds mean BUSINESS.
Glad you found you some