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Old 07-12-2011, 10:02 PM
eric1959 eric1959 is offline
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Default Monarch(PPU) .357 in a K Frame

Seeking Ammo knowledge.New Accademy Sports just opened nearby. They sell a brass cased 158 gr sjhp for 19.99/box. Company spec say 490 m/s from a 10 inch barrel. I bought a trial box today.I'm looking for something to shoot from a Mod 13 and a Mod 65, both 4 inch barrels.What do you think? Too hot for frequent use, too hot for a k frame at all? I can always shoot it in some Ruger's so it won't be a waste. Around here that's a good price for 357. Main local alternative is Remington 125 gr sjhp for 47.00/100. Everything else 158gr is sky high or a mail order thing. 158 gr really appeals to me for the fixed sight models.
Anyone got an opinion, maybe a real world set of chronograph numbers?
Thanks,
Eric
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Old 07-13-2011, 06:03 AM
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I've shot a couple of boxes of their 38's with the same bullet and have been very satisfied. Helped my buddy shoot a box of those 357's in his 3" Rossi- they are fairly hot but nothing that would tear a revolver up with normal usage. I can't help with the chrono info-just felt recoil and gun reaction which is no problem. Post up your results.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:10 PM
LWCmdr45 LWCmdr45 is offline
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Back during the worst of the ammo shortage, I bought two boxes each of the Monarch in .38 Special and .357 Magnum. These rounds have the hardest primers I have *ever* encountered! Some rounds would require up to FOUR hits before going bang, including in revolvers that I know to be "box stock" with no spring replacing or tweaking. I hope to be able to burn them up in a Marlin carbine, but have not yet tried them in that platform. I hope your mileage *does* vary, but mine stinks!

My local Wal-Mart frequently carries the Federal Champion line in .357Mag./158grain: cheaper than Academy and reliable primer ignition. Check out the Wal-Marts near you.

Steve

Last edited by LWCmdr45; 07-13-2011 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:27 AM
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I've shot the Monarch some in my Models 19 and 13. I don't have a chronograph, but it seemed to be a fairly moderate 158gr load. It should be fine in a K-frame. I thought it was a little dirty, but that's probably to be expected.

It's made in Serbia, by Prvi Partizan, I understand, and is probably decent practice ammo for the price if you're particular guns like it.

edit: I seem to remember that my Marlin 1894 seemed to have trouble feeding these very reliably.

Last edited by jlanecole; 07-16-2011 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:22 PM
Morgan Orlins Morgan Orlins is offline
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I just spent 4 hours at the range with my rifles today. For starters, I didn't expect much from the Monarch because it's $5 cheaper per box than the Federal, and $3 cheaper than the Blazer brass which tumbled on me at 100 yds. So I went to shoot today with diminished expectations. I WAS IN FOR A SHOCK!!

1.) I shot 18 of the 20 rds. of Monarch .357, 158 grain from a bench at 100 yds. into a 5 inch group, 2 flyers. It marked 3 inches higher than the Federal 158 grain, and 2 inches lower than the Hornady Lever Evolution in 140 grain.

2.) Not only was the Monarch "hotter" than the other loads, but it was tighter and more consistent than the Federal 158 grain, and it's group was almost as good as the Hornady LeverEvolution--it was very close!

Dollar for dollar, the Monarch is definitely the best value.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:35 PM
Toblerra Toblerra is offline
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I've always liked PPU ammo, never had a problem with it and the price is right.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:37 PM
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AIM Surplus has some real good deals on brass PPU 357 ammo this weekend.
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:43 PM
Morgan Orlins Morgan Orlins is offline
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Thanks for that, I'm going to check it out!
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:49 PM
Edknn123 Edknn123 is offline
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I shot a box of Monarch 157gr .357 today in a 640 Pro. Definitely hotter than I want for the range in a J Frame but it should be fine in your K frame. Ammo was flawless just like the hundreds of Monarch .30 carbine I have gone through. Aim is cheaper for the PPU, same as Monarch, but only have the jacketed flat points in stock.
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:03 PM
RILEY31 RILEY31 is offline
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I have shot a lot of the Monarch in .38 Special and .357 Magnum and .45 acp I have never had any problems with it. Great for range ammo
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:12 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric1959 View Post
Seeking Ammo knowledge.New Accademy Sports just opened nearby. They sell a brass cased 158 gr sjhp for 19.99/box. Company spec say 490 m/s from a 10 inch barrel. I bought a trial box today.I'm looking for something to shoot from a Mod 13 and a Mod 65, both 4 inch barrels.What do you think? Too hot for frequent use, too hot for a k frame at all? I can always shoot it in some Ruger's so it won't be a waste. Around here that's a good price for 357. Main local alternative is Remington 125 gr sjhp for 47.00/100. Everything else 158gr is sky high or a mail order thing. 158 gr really appeals to me for the fixed sight models.
Anyone got an opinion, maybe a real world set of chronograph numbers?

Thanks,

Eric


Does it say 10 INCH or 10 CM barrel? A 10 CM barrl is four inches.

Based on what I know of Euro ammo, I'd fire it in a Ruger, not a K-frame Smith. I'm a little leery of Serbian ammo, anyway, although t it seems okay to most commenting on it.

I'd probably feel beter about their 9mm or 7.62X25mm ammo.

If I had a M-65 S&W, I'd be looking for Federal's 158 grain Hydra-Shok .357 ammo or use with Plus P lead SWC-HP 158 grain from Remington or Buffalo Bore.

These are defense ammo, not range loads. They're what I use in my M-66-3.

If I can't find the lead SWC-HP loads, I use Speer's 125 grain .38 Plus P JHP's for indoors or crowded areas.

Speer told me that their 135 grain Short Barrel load is okay for four-inch and shorter barres, but I load it manly in snub and three-inch barrels. You'll probably have to mail order good 38 and .357 ammo.

Of course, a real gun store may have a better selection than some place like Wal-Mart or Academy Sports.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:34 AM
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I would not worry about the 158gr bullet ammo but I would not recommend shooting many of anything lighter. Back in the day it was the high speeds generated but ammo made with a 125gr jacketed bullet that was damaging forcing cones on S&W K frame revolvers.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I would not worry about the 158gr bullet ammo but I would not recommend shooting many of anything lighter. Back in the day it was the high speeds generated but ammo made with a 125gr jacketed bullet that was damaging forcing cones on S&W K frame revolvers.
125 gr loads were associated with cracked forcing cones in the Model 19, etc.

I've heard it attributed to faster bullets, and I've hear it attributed to shorter bullets allowing the hot gas to get past the bullet and pre-heat the forcing cone. Neither is correct.

Erosion of the forcing cone creates V shaped cuts in the forcing cone, and those V shapes cuts become stress risers. In the K frame the forcing cone is milled flat on the bottom to allow clearance for the crane. That thin spot in the forcing cone is then more susceptible to stress cracks caused by the cuts from the erosion.

Erosion is maximized with large charges of colloidal ball powders - which happen to be the powders that produce the most velocity in the .357 Magnum when using longer barrels. The partially burnt powder flows through the forcing cone along with theft plasma from burnt powder, and the combination of heat and abrasion causes erosion to a much greater extent than with a faster burning flake powder.

The use of these powders occurred around the same time that law enforcement adopted the 125 gr hollow point. Around the same time several law enforcement agencies got sued for "under training" their officers by using .38 Special for practice and .357 Mag for duty. Consequently, most agencies stopped training with .38 Special and instead started training with their .357 Magnum duty loads. The Model 19, with it's thin forcing cone was designed to be shot mostly with .38 Special and only shot with .357 Mag on rare occasions, and was not designed for a steady diet of .357 Magnum. When a few Model 19s suffered cracked forcing cones, it wasn't really a surprise.

The lighter 125 gr bullets got the blame for the forcing cone cracks, but it's only partly deserved and needs to be qualified based on the powder used. For example, most 125 gr loads use a use a charge of around 20-21 grains of a slower burning colloidal ball powder like H110 or Win 296. That compares to around 16 grains of the same powder for a 158 gr bullet. This means that there is 20-25% more powder in the 125 gr load, and thus 20-25% more erosion per shot than with a 158 gr bullet.

Bullet weights lighter than 125 gains don't burn those slow colonial ball powders very efficiently, so they are seldom used and you don't see the same erosion and cracking issues with 110 grain loads - but no one really thinks about that.

You also don't see anywhere near the same level of forcing cone erosion with a flake powder like Unique. Those faster burning flake powders also produce comparable or even higher velocities in short barrel .357s. And with comparable bullets at comparable velocities, the faster powders (with charges around 9 grains - less than half the weight of a comparable load using H110/Win 296) produce significantly less recoil.

----

Now, with that said, I don't recommend a steady diet of .357 magnum for any K frame revolver - they simply were not designed for it (and neither were the J-magnum frame revolvers). But if I were going to subject a J or K-frame revolver to a steady diet of .357 Mag, I'd use a brand that did not use a colloidal ball powder, and failing the ability to control that, I would limit the bullet weight to 158 grains to reduce the amount of powder flowing through the forcing cone.
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2017, 09:56 PM
CTG_COLLECTOR CTG_COLLECTOR is online now
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Be aware re: Prvi Partizan 158gr semi-jacketed HP. The jacket is not crimped onto the lead core. It's just a lead slug placed in the gilding metal cup. I tried to pull a bullet using a kinetic puller and the lead core just separated from the jacket leaving the jacket stuck in the case.
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357 magnum, carbine, chronograph, k frame, k-frame, remington, rossi, ruger

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