Opinions on what 38 special ammo to get?

Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
163
Reaction score
4
Location
Utah
I have an 2.5 19 and 66 and would like some self defense ammo in 38 special to use in it. I would like your guidance on which one to choose. I know, I know, pick the one that shoots the best in your gun...but I would like help narrowing down the decision.
1. Critical defense both regular and plus-P.
2. PDX1 plus P.
3. Remington HD Plus P.
4. Mag Tech Guardian gold.
The prices are pretty similar and I won't be using a lot of them.
Thanks in advance.:)
 
Register to hide this ad
I have an 2.5 19 and 66 and would like some self defense ammo in 38 special to use in it. I would like your guidance on which one to choose. I know, I know, pick the one that shoots the best in your gun...but I would like help narrowing down the decision.
1. Critical defense both regular and plus-P.
2. PDX1 plus P.
3. Remington HD Plus P.
4. Mag Tech Guardian gold.
The prices are pretty similar and I won't be using a lot of them.
Thanks in advance.:)
Click It
 
I don't think that any of the ones you listed have any kind of history yet of actual shootings - or at least none that I have read about. For the ones you listed my choice would be #2 based upon tests that I have seen in calibrated gelatin.
Outside of your list I would pick the Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P first and the Remington 158gr +P LSWCHP second.
Another plus for the Speer is that you can often find them in boxes of 50 for $25-$30 so one can afford to practice with them a bit more.
 
Hornady Critical Defense is VERY good ammo, right up there with the Gold Dots.

IMG_7058.jpg


I would avoid the Magtech Guardian Gold............it got almost zero expansion in wetpack, and not much in water jugs. When it does expand, it tends to break up pretty quickly. Too brittle, in my opinion.

The W-W PDX stuff is also VERY good, at least in the larger calibers. I haven't found any to test in the 38 yet.

IMG_6960.jpg
 
BallisticPhotoSummary029.jpg


Here is the PDX1 in .38 +P. Wonderful round. However, the original poster asked about rounds from models 19 and 66, right? I recently purchased a model 13 (same gun, but blued with fixed sights) and I found it shoots low with 130 grain ammo and shoots dead on with 158 grain ammo. So, no matter whether these rounds are effective or not, you should try them in your gun to make SURE they shoot where you want them to shoot. I have experienced this two times now...I have a couple of guns that know what they want to shoot, and I have to pick out specific ammo for them. I am in the same quandry about the Model 13, because I've tested Buffalo Bore .38 +P LSWCHP and the expansion doughnut sheared off...I have seen the same results with the Remington 158 grain +P LSWCHP (FBI Load?). So, while the point of aim = point of impact, it will probably act pretty much like a non-expanding .38 and penetrate all the way through what you're shooting. I have some .357 Mag Speer in 158 grain, but I think that will probably penetrate too much also. I am still experimenting, but when you get right down to it, I'm not sure there is a good answer. From what I've seen on-line, I would say the best you could do (as far as I can tell) is the Remington 158 grain +P LSWCHP...just don't know what the actual bullet is going to do when it impacts...
Good luck, B
 
bulleta022.jpg


And here's the Hornady Critical Defense...always works, but don't know about point of impact with 19/66. A little smaller than some of the other rounds, but effective. B
 
A couple of thoughts on testing and measuring recovered bullets..........expansion rings were mentioned, which describe the ring of metal left after the bullet has expanded and the core has pushed past the ring. I don't see that as a failure, though some folks do. The softness of the alloy allows it to expand well, but the weight of the core allows momentum to drive it past the ring.......I see that as a good thing. In stiffer test media like wetpack and duxseal (stiff oil-based clay) expansion rings are more common, in ballistic gel less so. In human tissue who knows, it would matter more where the bullet impacted, i.e., abdomen or ribcage, spine or liver.

IMG_6969.jpg


Some folks measure the diameter of the recovered slugs and compare the numbers, I do not. If the expanded section of the bullet has curled around behind and under the core, then maximum expansion was obtained BEFORE the bullet stopped, and comparisons are invalid. If bullet A stops before the petals are folded back, and bullet B does not, which is better? The measure of expanded diameter doesn't tell the whole story.

IMG_6959.jpg


As much as I like the Critical Defense ammo from Hornady, it tends to be light-for-caliber, and I tend to prefer heavy bullets. You don't know whether you might be attacked by a 120-pound crackhead or a 375-pound biker, so you'd better have ammunition that will work on both. A lighter bullet generally won't penetrate as well as a heavier one, though lighter bullets go faster and expand more readily. Like everything else, it's a compromise, but I'll err on the side of penetration just in case the 375-pounder is the guy I'm dealing with. In summer it matters less, as there is less clothing to penetrate, but in wintertime I'll opt for the heaviest bullet that expands at the velocities it can achieve from the gun I'm carrying.

IMG_6973.jpg
 
A couple of thoughts on testing and measuring recovered bullets..........expansion rings were mentioned, which describe the ring of metal left after the bullet has expanded and the core has pushed past the ring. I don't see that as a failure, though some folks do. The softness of the alloy allows it to expand well, but the weight of the core allows momentum to drive it past the ring.......I see that as a good thing. In stiffer test media like wetpack and duxseal (stiff oil-based clay) expansion rings are more common, in ballistic gel less so. In human tissue who knows, it would matter more where the bullet impacted, i.e., abdomen or ribcage, spine or liver.

IMG_6969.jpg


Some folks measure the diameter of the recovered slugs and compare the numbers, I do not. If the expanded section of the bullet has curled around behind and under the core, then maximum expansion was obtained BEFORE the bullet stopped, and comparisons are invalid. If bullet A stops before the petals are folded back, and bullet B does not, which is better? The measure of expanded diameter doesn't tell the whole story.

As much as I like the Critical Defense ammo from Hornady, it tends to be light-for-caliber, and I tend to prefer heavy bullets. You don't know whether you might be attacked by a 120-pound crackhead or a 375-pound biker, so you'd better have ammunition that will work on both. A lighter bullet generally won't penetrate as well as a heavier one, though lighter bullets go faster and expand more readily. Like everything else, it's a compromise, but I'll err on the side of penetration just in case the 375-pounder is the guy I'm dealing with. In summer it matters less, as there is less clothing to penetrate, but in wintertime I'll opt for the heaviest bullet that expands at the velocities it can achieve from the gun I'm carrying.

Papajohn,

Awesome post and very nice photos. I have often wondered about the doughnut ring thing. Good to hear its not an issue.

I've had several bullets fragment when shooting and wondered what effect that would have. Best example was the Federal 357B (often ranked as #1 for a .357 in terms of effectiveness), but when I shot it in waterjugs it basically fragmented into pieces. I discounted the round, thinking it was ineffective, but now I'm wondering if that was right. As you mention, just because something fragments, may not mean I should discount the round.

bulleta025.jpg
 
Good guestion. I just bought a snub nose .38 model 6. Probably made in the 80's. 300000 range sn. Can I shoot P+ loads in it? I'm loading 4 gr. Unique and 158 RNFP and I got an offhand group of 2 inches at 35 feet, but I'd like to use factory ammo and HP. Lawyer friend of mine said always load factory ammo for defense. Legal thing.
Thanks Ken
 
hornady critical in my 638-3 and 442-2. we tested some stuff at work and found it all to be pretty much the same. i choose to use hornady because of the polymer insert. it pretty much gaurantees full expansion in any sort of clothing. or drywall(important if you plan to use this a home def). ammo these days is pretty damn good. you cant go wrong with any of the manufactures. go for the heaviest you can shoot. shoot some at the range to see point of aim variations.
 
Buffalo Bore 158 LSWC-HP +P Heavy.

Great round and in the pistols you mentioned wont be a problem at all.
 
Buffalo Bore 158 LSWC-HP +P Heavy.

Great round and in the pistols you mentioned wont be a problem at all.
I'm a very vocal proponent of Buffalo Bore® handgun ammunition. They have two 38 Special 158gr LSWCHPGC offerings that are superb. The Standard Pressure load has the same velocity and energy (854 fps 256 ft. lbs.) of the Remington +P FBI load (#R38S12) w/o the higher recoil. The +P 158 gr. LSWCHPGC load gives you 1,000fps/351 ft.lbs. Both loads shoot POA/POI in all of my 357 Magnum & 38 Special revolvers. The FPS and FPE figures I quoted are from 2" barrel guns! Those two loads, IMHO; are Simply the Best.
 
Last edited:
Papajohn,
I've had several bullets fragment when shooting and wondered what effect that would have.

Some "frangible" or fragmenting ammo is sold on the premise that a bullet that breaks up into segments does more damage via the secondary missiles. That may be, but as before, it depends on where the bullet strikes the target. Bullets in flesh can do one of three things; pass straight through, deflect off bones and cause more damage via secondary projectiles, or stop within the body. Soft bullets that strike bone can flatten or shatter, increasing wounding potential, but I'd prefer a bullet that can break the bone, especially structural members like the spine, the legs or the pelvic bones. The impact might not stop the attacker completely, but if he can neither stand nor walk, he's a lot less of a threat than he was.

But back to bullets that "separate"...........in most cases this means the core of the bullet leaves the jacket behind, though they're usually not far apart. Is this a failure? I don't think so, both components did what they were supposed to do, and their parting company is inconsequential in the scheme of things. But if you want the bullet to remain intact, the easy choice is a bullet that's either a homogenous hunk of metal, or a bullet with a jacket that's plated on, like the Speer Gold Dots. There may other bullet designs that expand and hold together as well, but I don't think there are any that do it better.

IMG_1630.jpg
IMG_1510.jpg
 
Back
Top