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Old 08-12-2012, 10:16 PM
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Default Ammo Alert

One of our students yesterday was using some S & B (158gr LRN) .38 specials, and was having a difficult time ejecting spent cases, even using a 'stressfire slap'...cases were swelling. Well, closer exam revealed...


Notice the splits are all in the SAME AREA on cartridge cases...they all came from the same box.


Thoughts?

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Old 08-12-2012, 10:24 PM
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Bad brass.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:31 PM
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I'd stop shooting that ammo in my gun. I've seen shotgun hulls that were reloaded too many time burn through, but I can't say Ive ever seen new brass do that.

Any visible damage to the chambers?
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:34 PM
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Wow. I've shot most of a half-case of that same ammo I got at a show a few months ago, and no problems whatsoever. S&B is one of my favorite low-cost brands.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:45 PM
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S & B brass has always been a little suspect for me, I usually pitch it if found in range brass. Friend of mine says the name should be Soundslikea Blowout.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:52 PM
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Cheap Eastern European ammo acting out?

Who'da thunk it??!!
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:58 PM
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S&B is usually good ammo. This is possibly a problem with the lot. Did the person contact S&B?
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:38 PM
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I haven't had any problem with S&B either, but it seems they are loaded a little hotter than some of the other brands. No problems with other ammo in the gun? Anyone mike the chambers yet?
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:30 PM
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I never would use it or wolf except in rimfire
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:14 PM
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It always amazes me how many seem to think that a case split will result in chamber damage! The chamber isn't damaged at the mouth of the case when a cartridge is fired is it? Then why does anyone think the same gas, at the same pressure, will instantly damage the chamber when it comes through a crack 1/4" farther back? It doesn't happen and isn't an issue.

Now, those cases look pretty shiny for new S&B. Your friend didn't by chance think he would pretty them up by polishing them with Brasso or another metal polish containing ammonia did he? Those splits look exactly like what happens as a result of nitrogen imbrittlement when cases are polished with Brasso! Can't do a thing about it, shoot them up and throw them away. S&B is excellent ammunition and certainly not to be avoided.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:37 PM
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This is what happens when you shoot that kind of ammo. you may shoot it dozens of times without incident and then you get a box that does that...

Like said above, I would stop shooting that ammo in your revolver and it would probably be a good idea to contact S&B.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
This is what happens when you shoot that kind of ammo. you may shoot it dozens of times without incident and then you get a box that does that...

Like said above, I would stop shooting that ammo in your revolver and it would probably be a good idea to contact S&B.
I would imagine the phone call will be a touch expensive!

Sellier Bellot J.S.C

Address: Lidická 667, 258 13 Vla*im, Czech Republic
Phone: +420 317 892 492
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:45 AM
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Read on a different forum that some older S&B .38 ammo used brass washed steel cases.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:19 AM
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Yeah, write them a letter. They can speak english, it just might take a long time for them to answer...

S&B is supposed to be a "good" brand. I mean as good as eastern europe brands can be... their QC standarts are different from others... in a bad way... I'm just sayin'...

Perhaps they have an US Rep. somewhere... I don't know...
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:26 AM
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Defect in weapon itself?
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:46 AM
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S&B has an e-mail address shown on their homepage. Write them along with your pics.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
I would imagine the phone call will be a touch expensive!

Sellier Bellot J.S.C

Address: Lidická 667, 258 13 Vla*im, Czech Republic
Phone: +420 317 892 492
They list an email address on their website, along with contact info for their foreign partner here in the US.

Magtech Ammunition Company, Inc., 248 Apollo Drive, Suite 180, Lino Lakes, MN 55014, USA
Tel: 001 763 235 4000, Fax: 001 763 235 4004, E-mail: [email protected]
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:17 AM
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I have shot a lot of S&B ammo in .32/.380/9mmP without any issue, but never any of their .38 spl. Were they shooting a new gun? Has it been fired successfully with different ammo?

A friend of mine had a very similar problem with a Charter Arms Southpaw that had three terribly miss-machined chambers. It had obviously never had a cylinder full test fired through it at the factory because the fired cases (Rem UMC ball) had to be pounded out of the chambers with a brass punch and hammer. Some of the cases split, others had a belt about half way up their length.

I would email S&B with pictures of the cases and see what they say.

Last edited by revolvergeek; 08-15-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:27 AM
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Strange, I had the same failure in a S&B brass case that I only reloaded once. My recipe was 115 grain round nose, 4 grains 231. Shot out of a 4" S&W 681.

Chris

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:31 AM
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I have never experienced any problems with S&B ammo.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:11 PM
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I really like S&B brass for reloading (nice deep primer pockets), but I've definitely found the brass to be more brittle on average than most other makes. I have had case splits just like those illustrated above on cases I've reloaded several times.

I think the OP's student just got a lot of particularly brittle S&B brass. What a shame if he was planning to reload it, but not an especially big deal.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:17 PM
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Could be an annealing problem, especially if they anneal their brass in big bins. In the bins the centers have problems getting to the annealing temps and could be the reason for the brittleness.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy.jet View Post
Read on a different forum that some older S&B .38 ammo used brass washed steel cases.
You will find that in their 9mm as well. I use a magnet to pick it out from the brass. Save it for my lost brass matches.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:27 PM
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Default Yep, S&B 158gr. LRN .38 special

Have seen this numerous times with that particular round.

It has happened to me and also a shooter earlier this year firing the distinguished revolver match here.

Out of 30 rounds, more than half were split.
It is a case problem, not a chamber problem.

It does not harm the cylinder, just a touch more time to clean out the carbon fouling from the splits.

I use S&B once in a while, but never reload their brass.
But I must digress, I did reload a whole bunch of .45 brass when I first got into bullseye shooting with no problems.

So, I guess I have only seen this happen with their .38 and .357 brass.

Clarence Perkins
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
I would imagine the phone call will be a touch expensive!

Sellier Bellot J.S.C

Address: Lidická 667, 258 13 Vla*im, Czech Republic
Phone: +420 317 892 492
Most foreign manufacturers have an in-country contact. You can always use their contact page on the same site you were on: Sellier & Bellot - Contact us

Or you can go to their foreign partner page and use the USA number posted there which happens to be MagTech. Sellier & Bellot - Foreign partners
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:12 PM
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[QUOTE=Alk8944;136655610]It always amazes me how many seem to think that a case split will result in chamber damage!
[QUOTE]

I was thinkin' more along the lines of out of spec chambers allowing the brass to expand and crack, but it sounds like other folks have had similar issues so that probably rules out the gun defect track....
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