|
|
08-12-2012, 10:16 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts
|
|
Ammo Alert
One of our students yesterday was using some S & B (158gr LRN) .38 specials, and was having a difficult time ejecting spent cases, even using a 'stressfire slap'...cases were swelling. Well, closer exam revealed...
Notice the splits are all in the SAME AREA on cartridge cases...they all came from the same box.
Thoughts?
|
08-12-2012, 10:24 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,556
Likes: 3,344
Liked 9,154 Times in 3,433 Posts
|
|
Bad brass.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-12-2012, 10:31 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Great Lakes State
Posts: 29,687
Likes: 12,672
Liked 33,605 Times in 7,845 Posts
|
|
I'd stop shooting that ammo in my gun. I've seen shotgun hulls that were reloaded too many time burn through, but I can't say Ive ever seen new brass do that.
Any visible damage to the chambers?
__________________
"I also cook."
|
08-12-2012, 10:34 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Timonium, MD
Posts: 719
Likes: 53
Liked 295 Times in 181 Posts
|
|
Wow. I've shot most of a half-case of that same ammo I got at a show a few months ago, and no problems whatsoever. S&B is one of my favorite low-cost brands.
|
08-12-2012, 10:45 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: extreme So. Florida
Posts: 298
Likes: 112
Liked 83 Times in 38 Posts
|
|
S & B brass has always been a little suspect for me, I usually pitch it if found in range brass. Friend of mine says the name should be Soundslikea Blowout.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-13-2012, 04:52 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: C-Bus
Posts: 6,335
Likes: 4,311
Liked 4,916 Times in 2,086 Posts
|
|
Cheap Eastern European ammo acting out?
Who'da thunk it??!!
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-13-2012, 04:58 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 107
Liked 456 Times in 205 Posts
|
|
S&B is usually good ammo. This is possibly a problem with the lot. Did the person contact S&B?
|
08-13-2012, 05:38 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sadly, Seattle WA
Posts: 10,562
Likes: 22,762
Liked 10,304 Times in 4,263 Posts
|
|
I haven't had any problem with S&B either, but it seems they are loaded a little hotter than some of the other brands. No problems with other ammo in the gun? Anyone mike the chambers yet?
__________________
Even older, even crankier....
|
08-13-2012, 07:30 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 860
Likes: 2,363
Liked 820 Times in 270 Posts
|
|
I never would use it or wolf except in rimfire
|
08-13-2012, 09:14 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sandy Utah
Posts: 8,616
Likes: 1,554
Liked 8,615 Times in 3,452 Posts
|
|
It always amazes me how many seem to think that a case split will result in chamber damage! The chamber isn't damaged at the mouth of the case when a cartridge is fired is it? Then why does anyone think the same gas, at the same pressure, will instantly damage the chamber when it comes through a crack 1/4" farther back? It doesn't happen and isn't an issue.
Now, those cases look pretty shiny for new S&B. Your friend didn't by chance think he would pretty them up by polishing them with Brasso or another metal polish containing ammonia did he? Those splits look exactly like what happens as a result of nitrogen imbrittlement when cases are polished with Brasso! Can't do a thing about it, shoot them up and throw them away. S&B is excellent ammunition and certainly not to be avoided.
__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-13-2012, 11:37 PM
|
|
Moderator SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
|
|
This is what happens when you shoot that kind of ammo. you may shoot it dozens of times without incident and then you get a box that does that...
Like said above, I would stop shooting that ammo in your revolver and it would probably be a good idea to contact S&B.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
|
08-14-2012, 05:32 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: C-Bus
Posts: 6,335
Likes: 4,311
Liked 4,916 Times in 2,086 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
This is what happens when you shoot that kind of ammo. you may shoot it dozens of times without incident and then you get a box that does that...
Like said above, I would stop shooting that ammo in your revolver and it would probably be a good idea to contact S&B.
|
I would imagine the phone call will be a touch expensive!
Sellier Bellot J.S.C
Address: Lidická 667, 258 13 Vla*im, Czech Republic
Phone: +420 317 892 492
|
08-14-2012, 05:45 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: alabama
Posts: 131
Likes: 143
Liked 18 Times in 12 Posts
|
|
Read on a different forum that some older S&B .38 ammo used brass washed steel cases.
|
08-14-2012, 08:19 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 7,437
Likes: 13,465
Liked 8,495 Times in 2,835 Posts
|
|
Yeah, write them a letter. They can speak english, it just might take a long time for them to answer...
S&B is supposed to be a "good" brand. I mean as good as eastern europe brands can be... their QC standarts are different from others... in a bad way... I'm just sayin'...
Perhaps they have an US Rep. somewhere... I don't know...
__________________
Jorge
|
08-14-2012, 08:26 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 11,102
Likes: 1,690
Liked 16,302 Times in 4,231 Posts
|
|
Defect in weapon itself?
|
08-14-2012, 08:46 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 292
Liked 641 Times in 345 Posts
|
|
S&B has an e-mail address shown on their homepage. Write them along with your pics.
__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73
|
08-14-2012, 09:15 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 107
Liked 456 Times in 205 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01
I would imagine the phone call will be a touch expensive!
Sellier Bellot J.S.C
Address: Lidická 667, 258 13 Vla*im, Czech Republic
Phone: +420 317 892 492
|
They list an email address on their website, along with contact info for their foreign partner here in the US.
Magtech Ammunition Company, Inc., 248 Apollo Drive, Suite 180, Lino Lakes, MN 55014, USA
Tel: 001 763 235 4000, Fax: 001 763 235 4004, E-mail: [email protected]
|
08-14-2012, 10:17 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 510
Likes: 352
Liked 99 Times in 40 Posts
|
|
I have shot a lot of S&B ammo in .32/.380/9mmP without any issue, but never any of their .38 spl. Were they shooting a new gun? Has it been fired successfully with different ammo?
A friend of mine had a very similar problem with a Charter Arms Southpaw that had three terribly miss-machined chambers. It had obviously never had a cylinder full test fired through it at the factory because the fired cases (Rem UMC ball) had to be pounded out of the chambers with a brass punch and hammer. Some of the cases split, others had a belt about half way up their length.
I would email S&B with pictures of the cases and see what they say.
Last edited by revolvergeek; 08-15-2012 at 03:40 PM.
|
08-14-2012, 10:27 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MA
Posts: 287
Likes: 87
Liked 173 Times in 79 Posts
|
|
Strange, I had the same failure in a S&B brass case that I only reloaded once. My recipe was 115 grain round nose, 4 grains 231. Shot out of a 4" S&W 681.
Chris
|
08-14-2012, 10:31 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,260
Likes: 2
Liked 114 Times in 84 Posts
|
|
I have never experienced any problems with S&B ammo.
|
08-14-2012, 12:11 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: High Desert of NM, USA
Posts: 6,236
Likes: 9,331
Liked 8,820 Times in 2,555 Posts
|
|
I really like S&B brass for reloading (nice deep primer pockets), but I've definitely found the brass to be more brittle on average than most other makes. I have had case splits just like those illustrated above on cases I've reloaded several times.
I think the OP's student just got a lot of particularly brittle S&B brass. What a shame if he was planning to reload it, but not an especially big deal.
__________________
Now go make God proud...
|
08-14-2012, 08:17 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Anaheim, Ca
Posts: 926
Likes: 204
Liked 445 Times in 243 Posts
|
|
Could be an annealing problem, especially if they anneal their brass in big bins. In the bins the centers have problems getting to the annealing temps and could be the reason for the brittleness.
|
08-14-2012, 08:26 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: US
Posts: 385
Likes: 86
Liked 182 Times in 92 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy.jet
Read on a different forum that some older S&B .38 ammo used brass washed steel cases.
|
You will find that in their 9mm as well. I use a magnet to pick it out from the brass. Save it for my lost brass matches.
|
08-14-2012, 09:27 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Liked 68 Times in 33 Posts
|
|
Yep, S&B 158gr. LRN .38 special
Have seen this numerous times with that particular round.
It has happened to me and also a shooter earlier this year firing the distinguished revolver match here.
Out of 30 rounds, more than half were split.
It is a case problem, not a chamber problem.
It does not harm the cylinder, just a touch more time to clean out the carbon fouling from the splits.
I use S&B once in a while, but never reload their brass.
But I must digress, I did reload a whole bunch of .45 brass when I first got into bullseye shooting with no problems.
So, I guess I have only seen this happen with their .38 and .357 brass.
Clarence Perkins
__________________
B.E.Master in&outdoor
D.R.#99
|
08-15-2012, 12:29 AM
|
|
Moderator SWCA Member Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01
I would imagine the phone call will be a touch expensive!
Sellier Bellot J.S.C
Address: Lidická 667, 258 13 Vla*im, Czech Republic
Phone: +420 317 892 492
|
Most foreign manufacturers have an in-country contact. You can always use their contact page on the same site you were on: Sellier & Bellot - Contact us
Or you can go to their foreign partner page and use the USA number posted there which happens to be MagTech. Sellier & Bellot - Foreign partners
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
|
08-15-2012, 04:12 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sadly, Seattle WA
Posts: 10,562
Likes: 22,762
Liked 10,304 Times in 4,263 Posts
|
|
[QUOTE=Alk8944;136655610]It always amazes me how many seem to think that a case split will result in chamber damage!
[QUOTE]
I was thinkin' more along the lines of out of spec chambers allowing the brass to expand and crack, but it sounds like other folks have had similar issues so that probably rules out the gun defect track....
__________________
Even older, even crankier....
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|