I have a relatively "new to me" Model 13-3 with a 3" barrel. I have only shot .38's and .38+P's out of it so far and have realized it is set up for 158 grain bullets (they hit the target right on the money). I have not tried any .357 Magnum rounds and am well aware of the forcing cone issues when using 125 grain ammo. My question is what about the 145 grain Winchester Silvertip ammo? I am wondering if it will shoot to POA and will it be heavy enough to avoid any forcing cone issues? I've tried lots of ammo, but never Silvertips, and they are quite expensive, so I was hoping for first-hand experience/expertise before I made this purchase. Please advise on accuracy and if it will be OK to shoot it in this K-frame.

Thanks, B

Silver tips are long outdated and I had difficulty finding them quick on the Winchester Ammo website. NO .357 rounds are listed under Personal Defense. I suggest you look for similar reasonably priced rounds.
Geoff
Who used to use the 145s on bowling pins, worked, but not cheap even then.

The .357 Magnum Winchester 145gr Silvertip load is STILL one of the best available for self-defense. Its terminal performance in bare and denim-covered ballistic gelatin tests is enviable to even the most modern designs and its actual street record is unquestionably good. Old doesn't always equal antiquated.

The real problem, as noted by Skeptic 9c, is they have been difficult to find for awhile now. If you have find them, I'd buy them. They'll work just fine in your Model 13.

P.S.- Don't rely on the skill of some web designer and/or market agent to decide your ammo choices for you. The Winchester ammo web site may not have any .357 Mag "personal defense" loads listed, but that means exactly nothing.

As an example, note these boxes of Winchester PDX1 and Silvertip ammo. Yeah, they are personal defense rounds even if it didn't say so on the box.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

The 145gr.STHP are one of my favorites...I run it in my 3" & 4" model 13
Go to.....ammoseek.com You can find it!!!!!! No cheap!!!!! Natchez has it in stock!!!!!!!

I also like this round in my 3" 681PC....My father also keeps it in his 4" 66
No-dash.

I preferred 145-gr .357 STHPs for carry in my 3" 65 - they did 1175 fps from that gun. I'm with Xtrooper - this is one old-school loading that I completely trust.

The .357 Silvertip was the FBI issued magnum round when the 3" Model 13 ruled the roost. Even though agents were supposed to carry the +P+ .38 round unless they had special permission, some guys loaded with Silvertips anyway, and plenty of guys carried it in their speedloaders for reloads.

I think it is the perfect match for your Model 13. It can be hard to find, though.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Oy Vay!

Winchester® Super-X® Centerfire Handgun - .357 Mag 145gr Silvertip® HP 50/Box - Natchez Shooters Supplies
Tain't cheap is it?
Geoff
Who will stick with .38 +P in his Ruger Security Six Heavy Barrel.

Still an excellent load that tends to balance expansion and penetration very well. It was the last .357 load I bought and issued our Officers before we made the switch to autopistols, and I still use it today. I did, however, just buy some (also expensive) 140gr. Barnes VOR TX .357Mag rounds from Midway and supposedly they clock around 1300 or so through a 4in barrel. They'll be fine in my N frames but not so sure about my K's, and I'm pretty sure there is no way I try to use them in my J frame Magnum! :-)

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Run Fast, Bite Hard!

Thanks for all the information and replies...I may try to pick up a box and see how it shoots in the Model 13. You guys are a wealth of info. B

This is my current load of choice in a 66-2. A tip of the hat too 18DAI for pointing me in the right direction. Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

I have a M640 that just loves 145gr Winchester Silvertip Magnums. They are so accurate in that revolver I will shoot nothing else for SD if I have the choice. I had 2 boxes and shot about 20 rounds but stopped shooting them 2 years ago when I found out how hard they were to find. A few months back Winchester must have done a run of them because everyone had them for a while. I bought 3 boxes and would have bought more if they weren't so expensive.

That is my SD load for use in my M640 because they are so accurate. A few friends tell me that ammo is outdated and there is better stuff now available. That may be true but the best ammo in the world means nothing unless you get good hits...

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SWCA #3437

Own a 3 in M13 that appears sighted for 125 grainers. Winchesters 145 st is most accurate factory load have tried in ALL my 357 revolvers. Tough to improve upon and not only extremely accurate, but high velocity.

That's true and the bullet itself isn't bad either. Back in the day Winchester Silvertips and Remington Golden Saber bullets were the Ford and Chevy of the ammo world. Most LE agencies carried one or the other. Golden Saber bullets have a bad rep for separation but the Silvertips do not. They may be old but they still work...

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SWCA #3437

+1 in favor of the Silvertips. I actually really like that particular bullet and have used 145gr .357 Silvertip component bullets for years in some hot reloads.

I've taken multiple deer with them and they work great... probably better than any other .357 bullet I've tried. I do typically see some fragmentation, but I'm pushing them quite a bit harder than the factory load.

If I manage to shoot my way through 2 18-round mags of SXT, then the next 2 will be 147gr. 9mm hollowpoints out of my Beretta 92F.




Either way, it's a firefight, and I'm looking for my rifle...

Absolutely still a good load. In fact,these 145gr.ST's may have been the first of the "modern"performing loads.They still hold a good spot for defensive carry,if you can find them.

The 145 gr Silvertip was my LEO duty load for a number of years in a S&W model 19-3... It is a devestating round and
I can attest to this first hand..

New is not always better... especially in this case.

An ooooold Silvertip story.
Silvertips are the only rounds I've ever carried in my 2 1/2" 19-3, which I had along on a MT Elk hunt in '86. As we were bringing a Bull out in my pickup, we saw some Blue Grouse sitting on the ground maybe 40-50 feet away. My nephew said he'd get one ready for the pan if I could shoot its head off. I did. He kind of snickered that that was the luckiest shot I'd ever make. I did it again. They sure were tasty.

I've been carrying them for years. I'm getting about 1300fps out of my GP-100 4".

I've killed a couple of Texas whitetails with the 145 STHP load from a Model 19 4". The load works well. It was also one of the first duty loads that had a flash suppressed powder, resulting in almost no muzzle flash at night. When you compared it with the Remington 125 SJHP load that was very popular back in my youthful LE days, there was no comparison.

I know of one OIS with the 145 gr ST's. The ST worked, and the LEO went home safely.

LOBO,

The STHP was an issue load for Dallas PD back in the 80s-90s and was used to kill literally dozens of BGs here. The .38 load was the Winchester or Remington 158 +P LHP and it worked very well also.

I carried them on duty for years in my Model 28, still my favorite magnmum load. I have a few rounds left from those days around the house, but haven't seen or bought any in years. I used them in my 2.5" 66 also with no ill effects. A very good round...

Still the best anti-personnel .357 load as far as I am concerned. 125s are too light.

Oh no doubt its a great bullet. It and Corbons 125 gr DPX are my loads of choice for caliber.

What I meant in my post was an OIS that occured locally in the late 80's. Thankfully there hasn't been another since, except for shots taken to disable vehicles.

I've been able to find it locally lately and have been buying all I can afford. It's my favorite .357 round that I've run across. I use it for a SD round in my 66-5 3.25". I've also been contemplating using it for deer hunting out of my 627 5.5", but haven't had the chance yet. Maybe next year.

Ammo To Go is now showing this round in stock also.

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Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

I believe that Tropper Mark Coates (RIP) used these on his murderer years ago. He put five into the scumbag's chest but it never fazed him and he sits today in prison. Google it & you can watch the shooting. Be prepared to lose faith real fast in the Win. ST however.


I swore by the old Rem. & Fed. 125gr. Mag. HP's but today I am thinking the SCHP (solid copper HP) as made by Barnes and loaded by them in their Vortex line might be a better choice in 140 gr. or the Corbon 125 gr. DPX SCHP.

I should have stated in my original post that the one OIS that I know about, the Officer was using the Win ST and it happened in my AO back in the late 1980's. Thankfully there has not been another OIS in my AO since that one occured.

Regarding Trooper Coates' OIS, from what I have read the shots were to the perps abdomen. But regardless of the location of the Troopers shots, the outcome was obviously not a good one.

I have searched for ballistic testing of the Winchester 145 gr Silvertip using ballistic gel & 4 layers of denim but I have yet to find any. I hope to find some so as to see if the denim clogs the HP cavity, and also if the bullet suffers from core/jacket seperation.

Remember that there is no magic bullet, nor caliber. A single bad report with a load doesn't mean that load is too be avoided at all costs, just like a single positive report for a load doesn't make it the "end all be all" load.

I agree with you about the DPX bullet. I think it along with the HST, and Gold Dot bullets are the best to be had in todays ammo. The LAPD, and the NYPD both issue the Gold Dot in .38 special (135 gr +P short barrel load) as well as in 9mm (124 gr +P).

You're absolutely right and to be fair this was with an earlier "generation" of the ST. Winchester "tweaked" the ST line a last time in the early 2000's and to be frank they are fantastic, especially the .44 Special. However, Win. does not push the line as heavy as before as the name "Silvertip" has forever been unfairly associated with the Miami Shootout of '86. They should have changed the name & color like they did with Black Talon.

Here's an objective 4 layer denim/ballistic gel test of your round:

StoppingPower.net Forums - Winchester .357 mag 145 gr STHP

I carried the 145 grain Silvertip .357 Mag loading for a couple of years in my normal duty gun, a 6 inch barreled Model 66, and in my cool weather off-duty and plain clothes gun, a 3 inch barreled Model 66.

I liked the low muzzle flash the powder produced. Velocities were neatly between the Federal 125 grain JHP and the Federal 158 grain JHP.

I shot at least a dozen mule deer, from yearlings to very large mature bucks, that had been injured by automobiles. Most were still on their feet to some degree. These rounds worked very, very well. I never had to shoot any deer twice to kill him. These deer were generally pumped with adrenalin and seemed harder to kill quickly than an uninjured deer taken unawares.

The Silvertip made then (early to mid 1980's) was a very effective defensive round. Silvertips loaded now look pretty much like the old ones I still have.

I guess that if we are to take the Trooper Coates shooting as our lesson, then we should sell our 357's and carry NAA 22 mini revolvers.
I never, ever see the Silvertip 357 load for sale. Not at gun shops, not at large gun shows with numerous ammo dealers.
I would like to shoot some, but not enough to pay shipping on it.

Thanks for the link, I haven't seen that before. I would like to have seen the average recovered diameter instead of the recovered diameter at the widest point which could be misleading. Pictures would have been great too, but beggers can't be choosers I suppose

Here is a good one with great info from Doctor Gary K. Roberts,

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Natchez SS, and Cheaper Than Dirt had it in stock the last time I looked which was only a few days ago. But they would have to be shipped.

Winchester doesn't make this load year round, but only in batches or "seasonal runs" if you will. This could explain why you don't see it locally.

It's an excellent round,....... dated, but excellent.