The other night on TV, they guy from Red Jacket got together with the guy from American Guns in Colorodo and here is my question.
You all know I'm very humble in my being honest regarding lack of knowledge with long rifles and thier ammo. That said I do know metals, and have a small piece of 1/4 steel plate in my hand right now. I regularly shoot some pretty big bore hand guns, so this type of ammo I know a little bit about.
Well these guys back up from a big plate of 1/4", I thought they said 20 yards, but looked like 20 feet. When they said they were going to shoot thru this steel, I thought, oh boy these guys have a death wish, the camera men too, and anyone within ricochet range of a 30.06.
They run a mag's worth of ammo thru the steel, and I mean THRU the steel like a soldering iron thru lexan.

Was that real?
Thank you. 26

Absolutely real. .30-06 M1 and M2 ball would have no problem at all penetrating 1/4" steel plate. Armor piercing ammo penetration is much much greater.

Even on the USMC LAV-25 series of light armored vehicles, the armor is only 5/16 steel plate and only rated to resist 7.62x39 combloc ball ammo.

You betcha, and I have piles of scrap 1/4" steel pistol plates shot full of holes by morons with ARs, AKs, and whatever other centerfire rifle they thought "wouldn't hurt steel" to prove it.

I guess they couldn't read the "NO RIFLES."

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Science plus Art

The steel was probably just a soft hot rolled A36 type steel and not a high quality armor plate like AR500

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

If the question is will a .30-06 punch a hole through 1/4" steel....yes, it certainly can. Not all steels are created equal. Steel used for firearms targets are usually AR-500. Shooting steel core bullets makes it easier to penetrate a steel plate as well. The training facility I go to does not allow any bullet to which a magnet will stick....whether that is a steel alloy jacket or a steel core. They have lost too many expensive steel targets in the past because of students shooting them with the wrong type bullets.

As for the distance you quoted, you would not find me shooting a center fire rifle that close to a steel target.

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Stu

26Ford,

Yes, that was very real. Actually a 30-06 round will punch through 1/4" plate quite a bit further away than 20 yards. It's suprising how powerful a standard soft point rifle bullet is. Kind of makes you reconsider what you use for "cover" when someone is shooting at you with a rifle.

De Oppresso Liber

Bullet type matters a lot, back when I was young and stupid not old and cranky like now. I set up as a target at about 50 yards an automotive flywheel that was less than 1/2 thick if I remember and shot at it with a 30-06 with 150 grain soft point ammo and it did not go through the steel or what ever the metal was. Remember kids it's much better to watch somebody else do these "Experiments" on Youtube than to do it yourself.

Thank you everyone!! I would have lost a lot of money if I was to bet on that scenario. Thank you 26

I watched too.
I wouldn't swear to it but i thought he said it was ap anyway.
Certainly wouldnt have much problem at that distance, ap or fmj.

Interesting video High speed film.

1 million fps Slow Motion video of bullet impacts made by Werner Mehl from Kurzzeit - YouTube

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Eccentric old coot

You realize a 30 06 is traveling around 2X faster than a .357, .41, or .44 mag?

I have personally shot 30-06 AP ammo thru 1" mild steel plate. It must be shot from "straight on" also it will penetrate 3/4" plate at a slight angle.

Probably had more to do with the angle of impact as steel will deflect a soft nose bullet that doesn't strike near perpendicular. I remember seeing a high speed photo in one of the gun mags many, many rears ago of a soft point from a 30-06 that had just passed through a 1/4" (maybe 1/2") steel plate.

Plain Jane .30-06 ball is nice stuff. It will make nice round holes in a lot of things. Once upon a time I was given a nice piece of T-1 steel plate that was 5/8" thick and about 14x16" on the sides. I set it up at the 100 yd. line and when back to the firing line. I loaded my M-1 Garand up with some nice M-2 ball (.30-06 150 gr. FMJ) and popped the plate. That M-2 round drilled a hole completely through the T-1 plate. I've got a number of cases of M-2AP. That stuff is positively amazing. It gives new meaning to the term penetration. Wonderful stuff. I think with a M-1 and a couple of bandoleers of M-2AP there nothing that walks in North America or even darkest Africa that one could not settle down... just put the pumpkin on the fence post and light it up! JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

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An interesting thing about rifle bullets is that their penetration actually improves the farther away you are from your target.

Not to ridiculous distances, of course, but the bullet is better stabilized at 100 yards than it is at 20 yards. I wouldn't want to be 20 yards away from a piece of steel being shot anyway.

In my fly wheel penetration "test" I did try to keep everything at a right angle but point taken I know that armor is much more effective if rounds hitting it do so at an angle.

Thanks

I've shot through a thicker (1/2in?) mild steel I-beam center with the lowly 30-40 Krag. We hit the same beam with muzzleloaders and a 44, all they did was blow the rust off the surface. Barely a dent.

Conversely, a .30-06 loaded appropriately to shoot out of my Garand with similar soft point bullets to the 30-40 Krag mentioned above will crater AR400 pretty well at 100 yards, but not so badly that I won't keep shooting at it there (with the 300WM I have to back off to 200 yds or I'd chew through the plate in a few rounds).

The alloy makes all the difference.

Usually, I'm on the M&P forum, but somehow got linked to here. While its' not about .30-06 steel plate penetration or lack thereof, this link at the bottom was interesting to me, showing how when it comes to various ammo's ability to penetrate (or not penetrate) different materials, there are some real surprises. (at least to me) I have more respect for a 12 gauge shotgun slug than I used to!

As for steel plate, as mentioned--there's sooo much variation in steel strength and quality, Rockwell hardness and brittleness for starters.

The Box O' Truth - The Box O' Truth

also (edit)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSGqze_Oy6E

In my younger (and stupider) days I had fun pulling AP bullets from 30-06 rounds and loading them into 300 Weatherby cases. Shoot through 18 inch oak trees, motor blocks, any size steel plate. It was a hoot!

Back in the 80s,I owned a Sako L61 in 30-06.At my club(Cavalier R&P Club) I shot at what was said to be a piece of cold rolled steel 3/4" in thickness at 200 yards with a handload of H205 powder and a 165 spitzer.It made swiss cheese of that plate.Note:mine were not the first through it...there are definitely differences in steel.

Thank you all!!!! Makes me feel like my 44 Magnum handgun is just a pea shooter, 26

1/4" steel is nothing for a 30-06 or anything else with a similar velocity.

Keep in mind that the guys at Red Jacket Arms are usually 3/4 full of poop on their show, too. I've heard enough of their nonsense to make me turn that show off for good. I'd rather watch the British "Top Gear" or a good movie than "Sons of Guns" ever again.

At 40 yards, 223 Wolf/Wpa cuts right thru 1/4" grading stakes. I use the stakes for setting up targets. My son thinks it is funny to saw them in half with the ar15.
FWIW, I used to drop 30-06 FMJ target ammo thru 1/4" plate at 200 yards like it was absolutely not even there.

I now use A514 in 3/8" thickness for rifle target shooting. Black tip 30-06 scratch it up at 100 yards..... but they do not go thru. These are tungsten core 168gr ammo. FWIW, they take a type III chest plate and cut right thru it at 50 yards. They go thru a kevlar vest at 400 yards.
It's a shame we have moved up to the 300WinMag and down to the 308 for longer range anti personnel. I really like the black tip ammo, but it is getting hard to come by now that the mil does not use it much.

It was AP. That's what I remember as well.

My father served in Europe in WWII...he recounted using 30.06 AP to shoot at Germans hiding behind trees...he also mentioned that it would take apart a brick wall.
I bought some Canadian AP in cloth MG belts years ago. I found it to be very accurate in my two groove Springfield 03A3.

Out deer hunting once i took a 243 and shot through the side of the rail road track,cant remember what bullet i was useing.you have to be pretty straight on.

Depends on what kind of steel and what kind of .30-06. The tungstun core AP ammo has a black tip and I think it is rated for 1/4" of armor plate or 1" of mild steel or 12" of wood.

The standard military ammo is less but I doubt it would have a problem with 1/4" of standard scrap yard steel at 20 ft and a 90 degree angle.

Someone here mentioned a brick wall there is actually a USMC video where it demolishes a cinderblock wall both sides and goes through multiple interior walls beyond.

In terms of energy and velocity your .44 magnum is a lot closer to a .22LR than it is to a 30-06.

Easy to forget handguns are pretty weak.

I have shot through a 1/2" steel plate hung @ 200yds with my 300RUM useing Barns 180 gr TSX. Plate never moved, burned a hole through it with no problem.
kids SKS carbine just stuck a FMJ in about 1/16 " . pulled it out for him to keep....

Using WW2 AP 30-06 I have shot thru 2-3" of laminated transformer
core. That is silicon steel in layers. Don't ask the particulars.
I was young and stupid. Washing machines were toast.
I still have some but not gonna shoot it any more. It's toxic don't ya know.

...Nemo...

back when I was about 19 a freind of mine dad had a range set up at his house in the back woods of Ga., he had some 1/4 steel plates set up and 7.62x39 punched through with no problem and 55grn .223 just dented them up. M2 ball I am sure would punch through and maybe a second..

300 mags of any flavor are rather heady beasts. I was never so happy as to sell my 300 Weatherby magnum. I was young and skinny back then.... the rifle would just man-handle me and beat me up. I often felt the thing ran so hot it would just scream thru a deer or elk without slowing down, just as you describe the plate not moving. The gent who bought it loved it, so it went to a good home.

My 300 RUM has a muzzel brake, does tame things down quite a bit.

.30-06 AP @ 75 yds

Back in the early 1990s I had a hankerin' for a .458 so I bought one. Next day we took it out to test it. Only we were stupid and forgot to bring along anything to shoot at. It was OK, the guy who was driving that day had an old truck rim in the back of the truck. We went out about 100 yards to a pile of gravel and set it up. My gun, I got first shot and I selected 510 gr solids (elephant ammo). It was a nice day and my first shot made the rim jump about 10 feet in the air. It weighed maybe 50#. So we all walked over to see if I'd kilt it. Soo Nuff, it was real dead. The .458 ball it it kind of at an angle and then proceeded to punch holes as it went along. All the way through, not bothering to slow down or deflect. Kind of like the steel was soft butter or something. Very impressive for a low velocity rifle round (maybe 2000fps).

Back in my ill spent youth, I managed to shoot one of my best friends. We were at a different gravel pit and part of the scenery included an ancient power shovel. It had been used by many generations of plinkers. Most pistol rounds couldn't even penetrate the steel cab. But that day I was after bigger game. I took my trusty war surplus Mauser and using unknown ammo (all surplus 8mm was questionable) I took careful aim and shot the bucket! The core vanished after punching into the 2" thick steel where it hit. The problem was the jacket came right back at us. Caught my buddy in the forehead and looked all the world like those wood staples that are zig-zag. Stuck in his hard head, too. I'm guessing it hurt some, too. So we retreated to his dad's Nash Metropolitan to look for tools. Found some surgical pliers, like the off brand one's you found along the road. He held still and I extracted it without much trouble, only then it started bleeding. All we had to stop the bleeding was an old shop rag (complete with rust and grease.)

So he held it in place while driving up the road to the Pony Keg (a little out of the way store). We knew the proprietor pretty well because we always stopped in for some chips and a coke. He asked if we needed an ambulance, but we said no. So he offered up to do some repair work. With some ice and a much cleaner rag it bled a bunch less. So he found a few butterfly closures, put some Mertholade on it, and we were good to go. But we didn't go home, we went back to finish our day of shooting. Weekends weren't all that long back then.

The lesson we learned was not to shoot at hard targets from too close. Its good advice. From that point on we shot the shovel bucket from cover. Farther out and just peeking around a pile of gravel seemed much safer to us. Oh. And my buddy's father insisted we park his pride and joy out on the road and hike into the pit. Bob always did have a zigzag scar after that.

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Dick Burg

A couple years ago, a metal fabricator contributed a large "bad guy" shaped target to our club (I think 3/8" stock, as I recall). He confidently told us it would withstand anything "up to 20mm" fire. My partner and I set it up about 100 yards downrange and fired about ten rounds each from our ARs (simple 55 gr. Federal bulk .223 stuff-NOT green tips). That little stunt cost us a trip to the welder to repair the damage we created. Our rounds left large, ugly craters on the front and bulging boils on the back of the target. Our target was apparently mild, rolled steel and easily vulnerable to rifle velocity projectiles.

PC

I've got a hanging metal "swing target" and my dad has had a similar one since the mid 90's. When dad bought his at a gun show he was told it was "for pistols only". We shot it with .22's and his 9mm and then .40 Heckler & Koch pistols and friends handguns including .44 Magnum. Held up just fine.
It's a roughly cut piece of plate steel probably 3/4" or so thick. Not a lightweight.

Using fuzzy logic we decided dad should use it to sight in his .50 cal muzzle loader.

First shot sent the thing spinning around and the whole target up and back several feet.
When dad went to reset it he discovered a large dimple in it. The back of the target was actually pushed out. That ended that...


...then a while later we decided it'd be AK-47 and 7.62x39mm proof. We knew an AK wasn't as powerful as a .30-06 or .303 so figured it'd take it.

Wrong. Regular FMJ went straight through it like it was butter.
To this day dad's target has one .311 calibre hole and a golf ball sized dimple in it.














Just to prove the apple doesn't fall far from the tree last fall I shot mine at 75 yards with the same AK but using soft point ammo. Figured it wouldn't penetrate.
Nope...it didn't. Did put a 1" dimple in it though. Whoops.
Now trying to save for some armor plate to shoot rifles at...

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Caretaker of a small herd.

There's the official standard on .30 M2 AP.

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Caretaker of a small herd.