What affects felt recoil in snubbies?

[jandr272]

I've noticed after shooting a widening variety of ammo out of my M&P340, which weighs in at 15oz loaded, that I'm not noticing the same recoil as I've read about.

For example, when shooting today, I noticed more recoil out of Magtech 158gr lead round nose than I did out of either Corbon 110gr +P DPX, or Hornady 110gr +P FTX. In previous sessions, I couldn't tell the difference between the DPX and Magtech 130gr FMJ or Armscor 158gr FMJ, even when blindly mixed in the same cylinder.

I thought there would be a significant difference between regular and +P; does anyone else not notice a difference?

I'm sure there is still a significant increase between .38 and .357, but I'm wondering if it is a huge as reading about it makes it seem. My hand starts aching enough around the 80-90 round mark of .38 for me to call it a day, but otherwise I don't really mind the recoil; still, I'm not in a hurry to try .357, but my curiousity is increasing.

[badge 851]

Every gun and shooter is different regarding recoil. I can certainly feel the difference between standard pressure 38 and 38+P. +P recoils a lot more in my J frame than any standard load. YMMVH...

[sodacan]

There's a big difference in the bullet weights you are shooting. A basic formula in physics is that force equals mass x acceleration. That would account for a big part of the difference.

[snuffy51]

There is no felt recoil when you have to really use it. No formulas.

[Old cop]

Shooting the small J frame I usually change to a larger rubber grip if I plan on shooting more than 100 rounds. Other things that impact felt recoil, for me at least, are the choice of round.

[tcon]

I noticed the same thing as the OP with my M&P340. Seems the heavier bullet weights have more to do with increased felt recoil than the power level (regular or +P) of the .38 round.

BUT.... when you do try full power .357mag ammo in this little guy, I recommend shooting no more than two rounds, holstering your revolver and then looking at the area on the inside of your thumb where the upper part of the backstrap contacts your lower thumb knuckle.

Feel the area on the inside of you thumb and check for signs of skin abrasion, separation or blistering.

With my M&P340 and full power .357mag ammo, what happens with my own grip is the extra recoil shifts the revolver suddenly back (of course) and the metal part of the upper backstrap pushes heavily on the inside of my thumb. The force is strong enough to move the upper rubber handgrip tab forward and enough to move (tear) skin. Not sure if I described it well. Worded differently, that top 1/2" of the rubber grip on the cylinder release side shifts forward under heavy recoil and allows the metal edge to harshly rub the lower knuckle during the .357mag recoil.

I want to figure this out and I believe wood grips would offer a more stable, steady, non-shifting backstrap area where the upper part stays wide won't give way under harsh recoil. I might also change (loosen) my grip to accommodate this little guy in the rare occasion where I might shoot some full .357mag ammo.

I'll soon be trying Buffalo Bore 19G/20 .357mag 125gr JHP as a candidate for defensive carry. It's supposed to address the issues (flash, recoil, noise level) of those who want closer to .357mag performance in a 2" revolver without the negative drawbacks . We'll see - but in the meantime... .38+P JHP self-defense ammo will be just fine.

When you try some .357mag, let me know how it goes.

[Horace & Daniel]

Felt recoil is a subjective thing. But, when you shoot .357 loads out of that lightweight j-frame, you'll definitely notice the difference. Bank on it.

Let us know how it goes.

[Neumann]

Recoil is roughly proportional to momentum, p = velocity x mass, which is distributed evenly between the projectile and the firearm. Felt recoil is roughly proportional to the force (dp/dt) per unit of area. A larger, particularly wider grip has more area, hence tends to reduce the amount of felt recoil. I am able to shoot a small .44 M revolver with Ahrends boot grips because they fill the palm of my hand.

The 3" 629 is not a featherweight, but .44 Magnum isn't .38 special either. That said, the first ten rounds or so sting quite a bit. After that my hand goes somewhat numb and the rest go downrange in relative comfort. My recollection of shooting my uncle's 15 oz .38 seem oddly familiar.

Rubber grips have the effect of jumping in a falling elevator just before it hits - nada. If they reduce recoil, it's because they are wider. I tend to get blisters because rubber sticks to the skin whereas wood slips just a little. What could be softer than keeping the stock of a shotgun just off your shoulder when you shoot. See how that works out. (In other words, recoil happens. Love it or leave it.)

[sodacan]

Originally Posted by snuffy51

There is no felt recoil when you have to really use it. No formulas.

Whether you feel it or not, it's still there and will have some effect on the shooter.

[Abflyboy]

I can shoot my 340 and 360 pretty much all day on any .38 Special ammunition. Some of the +P ammo seems like there might be a bit more recoil.

Full power .357 Magnums . . . that's a very different story. My nickname for my scandium J's is Nuke 'cause it feels like a bomb went off in my hand.

[chief38]

Primary difference in felt recoil is weight of gun, grip type and loads being shot. The lighter the gun usually the stiffer the recoil. Rubber grips while not as concealable are usually more recoil-soaking than wood. Obviously +P ammo will have more recoil than standard velocity stuff.

[reddog81]

+p has a max pressure 10% hotter than standard ammo. .357 Mag is close to 100% the pressure of 38 special.

Different brands and loads of 38 special are going to vary by more than the 10% difference between 38 special and +P loads.

[Groo01]

Originally Posted by tcon

I noticed the same thing as the OP with my M&P340. Seems the heavier bullet weights have more to do with increased felt recoil than the power level (regular or +P) of the .38 round.

BUT.... when you do try full power .357mag ammo in this little guy, I recommend shooting no more than two rounds, holstering your revolver and then looking at the area on the inside of your thumb where the upper part of the backstrap contacts your lower thumb knuckle.

Feel the area on the inside of you thumb and check for signs of skin abrasion, separation or blistering.

With my M&P340 and full power .357mag ammo, what happens with my own grip is the extra recoil shifts the revolver suddenly back (of course) and the metal part of the upper backstrap pushes heavily on the inside of my thumb. The force is strong enough to move the upper rubber handgrip tab forward and enough to move (tear) skin. Not sure if I described it well. Worded differently, that top 1/2" of the rubber grip on the cylinder release side shifts forward under heavy recoil and allows the metal edge to harshly rub the lower knuckle during the .357mag recoil.

I want to figure this out and I believe wood grips would offer a more stable, steady, non-shifting backstrap area where the upper part stays wide won't give way under harsh recoil. I might also change (loosen) my grip to accommodate this little guy in the rare occasion where I might shoot some full .357mag ammo.

I'll soon be trying Buffalo Bore 19G/20 .357mag 125gr JHP as a candidate for defensive carry. It's supposed to address the issues (flash, recoil, noise level) of those who want closer to .357mag performance in a 2" revolver without the negative drawbacks . We'll see - but in the meantime... .38+P JHP self-defense ammo will be just fine.

When you try some .357mag, let me know how it goes.

Groo here
Use Pachmayr Decelerator grips.
The back strap is covered, the grip is softer and does not slip,
and the rounding of the frame by the grip removes the ledge
that catches your joint.
Look bad,, shoot good.........

[jandr272]

Thanks all for the responses.

Mike thanks for breaking it down Barney style for me that really helped me understand a general idea of it. From 15-20 minutes of Google and math, looks like the Hornady 110gr = recoil of 104, the Magtech 158gr is 120, and the 125gr .357 will be around 140. A lot less scary broken down like that.

I ordered some Hornady 125gr .357 and will let everyone know how it goes. Luckily I golf lefty, so already have a "range glove" for my right hand.

[ShelbyV8]

357mag is loaded with slower burning powder and a lot more of it. In a short barrel, when the bullet exits the barrel, the unburned powder in the barrel turns the barrel into a rocket motor. It increases recoil after the bullet has left the muzzle.

[Frank46]

I normally shoot speer 135 grain gold dot +p in my model 36. I usually don't even notice the recoil. All the power I need and nothing I don't.Frank

[jandr272]

Tried out the Hornady 125gr .357 mag critical defense FTX (geez, could they squeeze a few more adjectives in there?)

I would agree that the math Mike laid out is pretty spot on, or at least feels that way. Alternated the magnums, 110gr FTX, and 158gr LRN. About 150% increase in felt recoil if I had to guess.

I definitely would not want to shoot more than 10 rounds in a single session, and didn't consider 5 fun, but it really isn't all that bad. The recoil isn't snappier or anything, just harder. Noise wasn't significantly louder, either. Really I didn't anticipate it any differently, nor do I think it was harder to control for follow up shots, really the only difference was that my hand hurt more than after the milder rounds. I have no hesitation in saying under an adrenaline dump I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I have decided to switch to carrying the .357.

Edited to add: I swear the 340 with the .357 has the same felt recoil that my Taurus 85 had with +P.

[Nevada Ed]

Per post #17;

Yes and give me a shot of "To-kill-ya", please.

In a J frame 15oz to 23 oz. makes a heck of a difference.
A 148gr target is ok but putting in the larger 158gr lead target
loads, start to add up on recoil.
A 158 at 600fps is no problem out of a J frame but get it up to
800 fps and over and some find it down right hard on the hand.

in a J frame a 110gr JHP at 866fps is a light standard load with around 3.19 recoil. At 950 +P fps it has a R4.01 ft/lb recoil
and at 996fps a Recoil of 4.56 for a steel frame.

A 135gr JHP at 851fps has a R4.38..........
A 158 lead at 650fps has R3.42 but at +P 851fps (old FBI) a R5.92 and with todays under 800fps.......... forget about it.

Did I mention my M49's have a Hoyt full rubber grip, the wood is nice for undercover low visibility but if you want full loads a good grip cuts the recoil down, big time.