Speer 135 grain .38 .Spl SB GDHP ammo

[.45mtngun]

Gentlemen,
Several months ago I called Speer and asked when the above ammo would be available and I was told that they would gear up in Feb. They didn't say why it wasn't being produced at the time. Midway shows that they don't expect any till atleast July. My 442-2 loves the stuff and I only have 70 rd's left. Does anyone know what the story is or what is really going on with this ammo?? I can't locate it anywhere. What's up fellows????
Jim

[APS]

It's probably demand. NYPD and Chicago issue it for revolvers and who know how many other departments. Plus it's popular with all the CCW folks that carry 38s. Not many of us can afford enough Corbon DPX to practice with
Midway actually had some this week and I got lucky.
I suggest you save bookmarks for the online retailer's 38 section and check them regularly.

[ikor]

I just bought 500rd from these guys on GunBroker but it shows they are out of stock now...

Buy and Sell Items at GunBroker.com

[ArchAngelCD]

Does anyone know what the story is or what is really going on with this ammo??

Most companies don't make everything they sell all year round, they make a run for what they expect to need and move on to the next product. It seems Speer isn't making enough to cover demand, maybe this run they will manufacture more.

[Black_Talon]

Midway sent me an email a few days ago saying that it was in stock, and their website shows that it's in stock right this minute. Don't pass go, don't collect $200, go directly to Midway and order it now before it's sold out again:

Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammo 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Black_Talon

Midway sent me an email a few days ago saying that it was in stock, and their website shows that it's in stock right this minute. Don't pass go, don't collect $200, go directly to Midway and order it now before it's sold out again:

Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammo 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point

Midway's email lies!! Backorder...

[Nick B]

Buy the heads and load them yourself for 1/4 of what they charge .

[pete950]

Originally Posted by Nick B

Buy the heads and load them yourself for 1/4 of what they charge .

Nick,
what would be the factory duplication load?

I have the heads.

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Nick B

Buy the heads and load them yourself for 1/4 of what they charge .

I have tried loading Silvertip loads and I just can't match the factory ammo for accuracy. Everything else I load I can make more accurate ammo than the factory but not Winchester Silvertip ammo.

If you have a recipe that will duplicate any of the Silvertip loads, especially the 145gr .357 Magnum load I would love to have it and would appreciate it a lot...

[brucev]

Originally Posted by Nick B

Buy the heads and load them yourself for 1/4 of what they charge .

What are "heads?"

[SOUTHPAW]

Ammoseek.com....6-0308635 - Ammo .38 Special +P Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 Grain JHP 860 fps 20 Round Box

They have it!!!!!!

[Nick B]

Originally Posted by pete950

Nick,
what would be the factory duplication load?

I have the heads.

Should be in the latest Speer manual .

[Stu Honea]

I saw some available on Gander Mountain's site a couple of weeks ago,but HIGH PRICED. Like $37.00 for a box of 20.
Try the Winchester Ranger Bonded, RA38B from ATG.Same price for 50 rounds,130gr.+P. Good load,also.

[Nick B]

Originally Posted by brucev

What are "heads?"

Slang for Projectiles or bullets used in reloading .

[pete950]

Originally Posted by Nick B

Should be in the latest Speer manual .

Dont have the latest manual, maybe you could share the load data.
It would greatly be apreciated.

Pete

[.45mtngun]

Gentlemen,
I followed Southpaws advice and got on Ammoseek and found the 135 Speer .38 .Spl ammo that i was looking for with Cheaper Than Dirt. It was going for $21.75 per box and the lady said that they were getting it from a new warehouse. I ordered up 4 boxes immediatly!!She didn't say how much they had in stock at the time. Thanks again for all your replies and suggestions!! A great bunch of people we have here and it's a site you can trust!!
Jim

[blujax01]

This is why I hand load. $37 for a box of 20?
The bullets are $18 per hundred. Add about $3 worth of powder and another $3 in primers.

Makes 'em $0.24 per round as opposed to a buck eighty-five. Even at the "bargain price" of $21.75 thats over a dollar each...

[Jamie]

Question, for reloading, I know there are Gold Dot bullets available, but the ACTUAL short barrels, where would one get those? They ARE different.

[blujax01]

I got mine at "The Fin" located about 10 miles north of Mansfield, Ohio on I-71.
Speer P/N 4014

Fin, Feather and Fur Outfitters

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

I have tried loading Silvertip loads and I just can't match the factory ammo for accuracy. Everything else I load I can make more accurate ammo than the factory but not Winchester Silvertip ammo.

If you have a recipe that will duplicate any of the Silvertip loads, especially the 145gr .357 Magnum load I would love to have it and would appreciate it a lot...

You know, I picked up some STHP 147 gr 9 mm and contacted Alliant for advice. They sent me a few recipes but they were cookie-cutter from their web page for Speer 147 gr GDHP. I contacted Hodgdon but haven't heard back. I'll copy you on anything I get.

[Steve in Vermont]

Originally Posted by pete950

Dont have the latest manual, maybe you could share the load data.
It would greatly be apreciated.

Pete

Any particular powder?

[shooter1911]

If you think Speer 135gr 38+P is hard to find try finding the Speer 135gr .357 Magnum version.

[SOUTHPAW]

CCI 357 Magnum by CCI 357 Mag, 135 gr, GDHP Short Barrel, (Per 20) - 23917


http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2CCI23917-1.html

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...sku=0002023917

[pete950]

Originally Posted by Steve in Vermont

Any particular powder?

No particular powder. Just what ever duplicates this load out of a 2 to 2.5 inch barrell.

[Steve in Vermont]

Originally Posted by pete950

No particular powder. Just what ever duplicates this load out of a 2 to 2.5 inch barrell.

Pete, According to the Speer# 14 Manual the loadings for the 135 gr GDHP SB are, obviously in +P:

AA# 7: 7.8 (start) to 8.2 (max)
AA# 5: 6.6 - 7.0
HS-6: 6.8 - 7.2
Power Pistol: 6.0 - 6.4
Unique: 4.8 - 5.2

The test firearm was a S&W M15 2"

Hope this helps.

[pete950]

Originally Posted by Steve in Vermont

Pete, According to the Speer# 14 Manual the loadings for the 135 gr GDHP SB are, obviously in +P:

AA# 7: 7.8 (start) to 8.2 (max)
AA# 5: 6.6 - 7.0
HS-6: 6.8 - 7.2
Power Pistol: 6.0 - 6.4
Unique: 4.8 - 5.2

The test firearm was a S&W M15 2"

Hope this helps.

Steve,
Thank you

[BobR1]

I ran the Reloading Numbers in Quick Load. It was not showing real special velocitys with the Max Loads shown. The Max Loads were showing right at 800 fps. The Pressure numbers were showing pretty tame also with most under 13,000 psi.

ADJUSTED Barrel Length to 3.4": I spooled all powders up to the top load showing under 18,500 psi. Looks like all powders listed when calculated at just under 18,500 psi pressure, are running at a calculated velocity between 917 and 937 fps.

ADDED: I had a 3.4" Barrel Length entered in the calculation. Barrel Length includes cylinder length on a revolver calculatioin. The program does not have any correction for velocity loss due to barrel to cylinder gap however. (Or I have not figured it out anyway) This would reduce the calculated velocity somewhat.

Anyone chronographed any factory 135 Short Barrel from a 2" gun? Just wondering what it is running.

Bob

[revolvergeek]

Some chronograph results from last September:

S&W 342, 1 7/8" barrrel, Speer Gold Dot 135 .38 Special +P
879.27, 846.02, 864.70, 866.12, 880.23
Avg 867.26 FPS

[BobR1]

If I were to venture a guess based on the velocity numbers above I would guess that factory Speer 135 Grain Short Barrel 38 Special +P ammunition is loaded to very nearly 18,500 psi.

I would also venture a guess that the loading data provided by Speer is no where close to the 38 Special +P Maximum Pressure of 18,500 psi based on the Quick Load calculations.

My guess is they know what they are doing loading their ammunition, and are loading it to the maximum pressure allowed for 38 Special +P. They probably have a Majic Velocity Number, and adjust the powder charge any time components are changed to maintain the Majic Velocity Number under controlled labratory conditions.
They do not know how good the rest of us reloaders are, or what we are using for equipment. Do we have a Lee Powder Dipper set or Digital Scales. With powder variations, different crimps, Standard and Magnum Primers, etc they are probably playing it safe with reduced book loading data.
Another thing probably keeping the loading data on the safe side would be the number of old non heat treated 38 Specials in circulation, and still being used.

I will have to take a day and do some testing, and see how close the Quick Load numbers are. I believe Midway shows the bullets back in stock.

Bob

[Robert B]

Northwest Shooter's Supply in Washington state, and Proarms in Florida. Both have web sites, and ship UPS.

[Steve C]

Originally Posted by BobR1

If I were to venture a guess based on the velocity numbers above I would guess that factory Speer 135 Grain Short Barrel 38 Special +P ammunition is loaded to very nearly 18,500 psi.

I would also venture a guess that the loading data provided by Speer is no where close to the 38 Special +P Maximum Pressure of 18,500 psi based on the Quick Load calculations.

What you are looking to duplicate in load duplication is velocity. One only has to look at load data that lists pressure and velocity to see that with the right burn rate powder that higher velocity can be achieved with lower pressure.

If you want to duplicate a factory load you need a chronograph and some factory ammo to find out what velocity it does from your gun as individual firearms even of the same manufacturer and barrel length produce average velocities that are quite diverse.

You need to select a powder that the manual says produces the highest velocities. In the .38 spl that would be no faster than W231 up to as slow as Blue Dot. In the .38 spl I've never had any problem equaling or slightly exceeding factory +P with Unique. I also usually record velocities from my 4" revolvers that the manual says it gets from a 6". My hand loads may produce more muzzle flash than the factory loads but they often add flash suppressant to the powder that isn't available to hand loaders.

The factory 135gr GD +P Short Barrel only does around 858 fps from a snub. The 38 spl +P Speer data I have lists loads up to 1,065 fps from a 6" barrel S&W M14 so the 858 fps in a snub should easily be met or exceeded.

[Pointblank2U]

Gold Dots are nice, but expensive. I like Golden Sabers and buy them in bulk fairly cheap. Look at this snub test a couple of weeks back:

.38 Special +P Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

[pete950]

Originally Posted by Badge130

Gold Dots are nice, but expensive. I like Golden Sabers and buy them in bulk fairly cheap. Look at this snub test a couple of weeks back:

.38 Special +P Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

I've seen some of this guys other testing. He does a real nice job, he's shooting through 4 layers of denim and into sim test which is the same as gel. I think this is better than some shooting into water jugs or straight down into a 55 gallon of water. I'm impressed with this load.

[ArchAngelCD]

A few years ago I got some information from Speer and I did a lot of work on replicating their 135gr .38 Special +P and 135gr .357 Magnum loads. I tried to not only replicate the velocity but also tried to replicate the felt recoil of each load. I've found recoil is different from different ammo, not the amount of recoil but the type of recoil. I think I succeeded in replication both 135gr Speer loads.

Using a 135gr Speer bullet or a 140gr Hornady XTP bullet in Speer .38 Special +P brass and a CCI-500 pirmer:
.38 Special +P using 6.8gr AA#5
.357 Magnum using 8.8gr Power Pistol
Both are not the Max powder charges but both feel the same as the originals to me.

[kmrcstintn]

right now I have Federal Nyclad 125 gr non +p that is the primary load in my S&W 442; I have since added a Ruger SP101 in .357 mag and might get some Remington Golden Sabre 125 gr +p's as they seem more readily available in the older green/gold boxes & the new black/red HD boxes

[pete950]

Right now Sgammo.com has the Golden Sabers for under $14.00 a box!

[125JHP]

Thanks for that info Archangle - I've been wanting to put together a oem.twin and just got a box of 135 GDSB from Midway and I have plenty of AA5.

[hsmith9491]

I bought them when you could buy 50 round boxes.
Have 4 boxes left. They rip us off with the 20 round boxes.

[APS]

Yes, I agree. When I can find them at gunshows in the 50rnd boxes I buy all I can.