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Old 04-19-2012, 09:45 PM
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Default UPDATE*****WWB 38 Special 130 grain...primer explodes!!!!

Met my son at a relatively new indoor range this afternoon to do some shooting. This range has balistic panel between lanes rather than a solid partition.

He picked up a box of WWB 38 special 130 grain FMJ to shoot out of my Model 66. He was on the 7th round (shells 30-35) when out of the corner of my eye I saw a bright flash. I immediately told him to stop firing (which he had all ready done) and to pop the cylinder and check the rounds. One round had not fired.

What happened is when the firing pin hit the primer, part of the primer blew away when it ignited. The flash came out of the primer (see middle picturte) and did not ignite the powder in the case.

Look on Winchesters web site, but found no way to contact them online.

Guess I fonnal have to do it the old fashioned way, see them a letter with the round and manufacturing number.

BTW, productin information is 27 56FB92.

**********UPDATE******************

Have the box of casings packaged up for UPS to pick up for Winchester. CS stated they were going to send me some certificates..not sure what they will be for, but something is better than nothing.
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Last edited by Retired LTC, USAR; 04-23-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:57 PM
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I'll bet you find no flash-hole in that round. It does happen on occasion.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:59 PM
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Primer was in the pocket sideways and had blocked the flash hole. It happens. I'm surprised he didn't notice it when he thumbed them into the cylinder.

I tried to find a telephone number for them also. Couldn't do it either.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:13 PM
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I just posted on their facebook page with a picture of the primer. Lets see what kind of response that generates!!!!
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:35 PM
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Read Michigan Scott's post. I copied your photo and blew it up, and he is absolutely correct, the primer was seated on its' edge.

Ammunition is a product that the end user has a responsibility to inspect 100% before use, and this is prime example of why. The simple reason is for your own safety. This is a defect easily detected, and a cartridge that should never have been loaded in the gun.

Instead of getting too upset trying to contact Winchester directly go to your local gun shop and ask them how you can contact the district marketing representative for Winchester. You will get farther, faster, with the rep. than you will posting on their Facebook page. BTDT, not just an off-the-wall suggestion.

What I was going to say was "......primer explodes!!!!", of course it did, that's what they are supposed to do!

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Last edited by Alk8944; 04-19-2012 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:48 AM
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Winchester will make it right. I had some Q3131 5.56mm ball that demonstrated some leakage around the primer pocket when fired in a Colt Hbar. They replaced all the ammunition paying all the shipping charges involved. They even replaced the ammo that I'd fired. Coo.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired LTC, USAR View Post
Met my son at a relatively new indoor range this afternoon to do some shooting. This range has balistic panel between lanes rather than a solid partition.

He picked up a box of WWB 38 special 130 grain FMJ to shoot out of my Model 66. He was on the 7th round (shells 30-35) when out of the corner of my eye I saw a bright flash. I immediately told him to stop firing (which he had all ready done) and to pop the cylinder and check the rounds. One round had not fired.

What happened is when the firing pin hit the primer, part of the primer blew away when it ignited. The flash came out of the primer (see middle picturte) and did not ignite the powder in the case.

Look on Winchesters web site, but found no way to contact them online.

Guess I fonnal have to do it the old fashioned way, see them a letter with the round and manufacturing number.

BTW, productin information is 27 56FB92.
What's the story on that primer in the case above the tilted primer? It appears to be pierced.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:36 PM
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I was using this same ammo one time at an indoor range when I had a round that was very noticeably louder and offered heavier recoil - I was really glad I was using them in my 686 that day! I suspected a double charge.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alk8944 View Post
...Ammunition is a product that the end user has a responsibility to inspect 100% before use, and this is prime example of why. The simple reason is for your own safety.
+ at least one-million. Look at every cartridge you put in your gun, no matter who made it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:21 PM
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******UPDATE******

Have the casings packaged and ready for UPS to pick up. They stated they are going to send me some certificates.........not sure what for.

BTW, if you want to contact Winchester by e-mail, you have to go to the Olin website and do it there.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired LTC, USAR View Post
******UPDATE******

They stated they are going to send me some certificates.........not sure what for.
They are going to send you a voucher for probably twice the value of the ammo you bought. (or more) It's their way of making up for the trouble you went through to send it back to them for inspection.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:24 AM
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Two years ago I had a LCR revolver that seized up. I could not turn the cylinder or open it up until the gun cooled down. Then I had a difficult time extracting the shells. I was using Fiocchi and checked the box. I found two rounds that were a bit longer than the rest, similar to what was posted in the OP pics. I never used or bought any more of it. Scary to say the least.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:30 AM
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and............ this is why you inspect ammo before you put it in your gun.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:46 AM
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People wanted cheap ammo so Win. is in the process of moving to MS and have folded their tent in IL and paying half the wages as before. Welcome to the Walmart world. 1,200 jobs lost. As you can see QC has gone out the window as once you shaft your employees co. loyalty goes with it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:50 AM
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I have seen this before one time in a factory primed .357 mag case I had purchased for reloading. The metal cup on this particular primer was exceptionally thin. Just one of those things you can rarely come across. The company manufactures millions of primers and cartridges. Even with 6 sigma manufacturing one defect in a million is acceptable. A problem would be if every round exhibited the problem, one isn't a problem its an aberration.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:26 AM
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As was mentioned above , inspect your rounds individually as you load them .

I've worked in retail guns for 26 yrs . Considering the billions of rounds manufactured it's understandable that "stuff happens" ... it's not just Winchester . I've seen Remington ammo with the primer upside down . Federal ammo with the bullet upside down .

In all cases the manufacturer replaced the ammo and then some . Give them a chance . They will make it right .
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:08 AM
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I've had several problems with Winchester ammo.

I try to stay away from the white box variety if I can. However, if it is all I have, I do try to make a harder effort to inspect the ammo.

I've found terrible QC issues with the white box. .45 rounds with cases that were slightly fatter than they should have been and wouldn't feed into the breach. 9mm with primer issues.

The worst was a bullet that fell out of the casing while it was in the magazine of my conceal carry. I don't remember the Winchester label, but I do remember that there was gun powder all through out my firearm.

I mailed back the unused rounds and they sent me a certificate for a new box of ammo. I guess they thought I was going to make the same mistake twice.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:42 AM
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Boge, I live in Mississippi and resent the inference that ammo made in Mississippi will be sub par. We are glad to have the jobs here and have a dedicated workforce. As with anything else a company has to stay competitive. When greedy workers demand too much companies will move.

Last edited by watergun1929; 04-24-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:58 PM
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Hey Gents, is it just my eyes, or does the round directly above the one in question (middle photo) show some color and deformation as well?
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:58 PM
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Hey Gents, is it just my eyes, or does the round directly above the one in question (middle photo) show some color and deformation as well?
I tried pointing that out a couple of days ago. It looks pierced to me.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:05 PM
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Boge, I live in Mississippi and resent the inference that ammo made in Mississippi will be sub par. We are glad to have the jobs here and have a dedicated workforce. As with anything else a company has to stay competitive. When greedy workers demand too much companies will move.

In 2009 21.9% of the people in your state lived in poverty. Winchester is locating there for one & one reason only & it isn't for the culture. They can pay dirt cheap wages and zero benefits. Enjoy the new plant in Oxford that Haley Barbour gave all the concessions to with Federal & YOUR state tax dollars as I'll never buy anything from them again if I can help it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
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People wanted cheap ammo so Win. is in the process of moving to MS and have folded their tent in IL and paying half the wages as before. Welcome to the Walmart world. 1,200 jobs lost. As you can see QC has gone out the window as once you shaft your employees co. loyalty goes with it.

The Illinois yankies were no better at loading, inspecting, or quality control. By the end of annual qualifications we had a coffee can full of Winchester Q loads that were duds, with crushed, sideways, or upside down primers, or inverted bullets. All from those great union members in Alton Illinois.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:18 PM
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Glad there were no injuries,that's the important thing.
I think the company will have to do right by you on this one,as they certainly should.
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