158GR 357 in 4" Model 29--SP or HP?

[aterry33]

Some folks have advised me to go with the SJHP over the SJSP because in a 4" handgun barrel, the soft point will not develop enough velocity. This would be a defensive round against small to medium sized animals. Thoughts?

[snw19_357]

It would be unsafe to fire .357s in a model 29 since it's a .44 mag. But, if it's a 27 or 28

Whether it's a SJHP or a SJSP will not affect velocity if they are loaded the same. For small-medium sized game, I'd use the HP since they'll deform and transfer energy quicker than a SP.

[aterry33]

Yeah, I sounded like an idiot there, it is a Model 19

So would you still use the HP even if there was a chance of running into a black bear? I know I'm adding a new fact here.

[Steve C]

JHP's are the way to go for self defense ammo. JSP and other solid bullets have a negligent amount of upset at handgun velocities but are good for deeper penetration.

[snw19_357]

Originally Posted by aterry33

So would you still use the HP even if there was a chance of running into a black bear?

No, I'd want the JSP (all six of them) to get through the hide and penetrate deaper.

[aterry33]

Thanks guys. So I guess the verdict is..

Defense against two-legged predators: HP
Defense against four-legged predators: SP

[snw19_357]

I'd use the HP's for everything, but a bear. That doesn't seem to be medium sized to me. Heck, if there was a good chance of a bear (or something similarly sized) chasing me, I'd bring my .41 mag.

[GatorFarmer]

You could always try something like these DoubleTap Ammunition
Not sure about using them in a K frame though.

[grendelbane]

Consider the Winchester Silvertip 145 grain .357 load.

It gives decent expansion while also giving decent penetration. (You can't have both at the same time, you have to choose).

2 legged varmints are a much more likely target than black bears. Still, the Silvertip would probably work on a black bear. They are big, but they are not huge like the grizzlies and brown bear.

A good JSP or hard cast SWC would be good on a bear, but for a compromise round the Silvertip would be my choice. Second choice would be a good 158 grain JSP.

[Pointblank2U]

I second the 145 grain Silvertip. It's a great load.

[Chili Vega]

I would go with the JSP for the penetration on a bear. The JHP definitely for two legged critters.

[alwslate]

I would say that if you really think you might encounter an aggressive
bear you better go back to the 29 idea.

[ArchAngelCD]

180gr and 200gr .357 Magnum loads are great on game but IMO not so great when shot from a 4" K frame. They will beat up you and your gun and quick followup shots will be difficult.

If you don't load your own Winchester has a 158gr JSP round that is probably just what you're looking for when shot from a K frame revolver. From a 4" barrel it's reported to do 1235 fps which is good velocity from a 158gr bullet. Also, 50 of those rounds will probably cost you about the same as 20 rounds of the designer stuff. Give them a look-see... Good luck.

[Darkenfast]

As I understand it, most current 158gr loads actually get a little under 1200 fps. I also understand that 158 gr loads are less punishing to K-frames (especially the forcing cone). To me, all this adds up to a more moderate load that still penetrates well, and can be shot fairly quickly. I realize that the JSP won't expand as much as the JHP, but I think that for all-round woods use the old 158 gr JSP may be a good (and less expensive!), choice. I wouldn't use one for inside-the-home defense, but I would certainly feel confident carrying one in the boonies. That's just me: I find that as I turn into an old curmudgeon, I like the old stand-bys best!

[Texas Star]

Remington makes/made a 165 grain load for game shooting in .357. I have one box, in case I find myself in bear country.

The construction of the bullet is stronger than for most .357 ammo: it isn't just the slight weight difference that matters.

The 145 grain Silvertip has an EXCELLENT rep on humans and, probably, on deer with lung/heart hits. I think it'd also be right for javelina/peccary. Wouldn't want to be the big raccoon that got hit with one, either. And I think it'd usually do in a cougar in short order. Velocity from a three-inch barrel is about 1175-1200 FPS. A Four inch bbl. may give even 1275 FPS.

[riverrat38]

The hottest, most penetrating .357 mag cartridge that I have seen, but not shot, is the Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast. It gives close to .41 mag energy, around 700 FPE from a 4 inch barrel, if I recall correctly. And, sometimes, I do! That would be my choice for woods carry, if I remember to order some. They also make a .38 Spec plus P 158 gr Keith pattern hard cast that pushes 500 FPE from the 4 in. Its called the Outdoorsman. For those who choose to bring a M642 to a bear fight!

Rick

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by riverrat38

The hottest, most penetrating .357 mag cartridge that I have seen, but not shot, is the Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast. It gives close to .41 mag energy, around 700 FPE from a 4 inch barrel, if I recall correctly. And, sometimes, I do! That would be my choice for woods carry, if I remember to order some. They also make a .38 Spec plus P 158 gr Keith pattern hard cast that pushes 500 FPE from the 4 in. Its called the Outdoorsman. For those who choose to bring a M642 to a bear fight!

Rick

Do you really think it's a good idea to shoot a 180gr bullet @ those velocities from a relatively light K frame revolver? I wouldn't do it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone either. Possible from a M27 or M28 N frame but not a K frame.

I just can't understand why everyone is so high on buffalo bore ammo for everything. (especially when you haven't shot it yourself) Sure it has it's place but most of their stuff isn't a do-all load.

I stand by my suggestion above, a 158gr JSP @1250 fps is more than enough from a 4" K frame IMHO...

[riverrat38]

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

Do you really think it's a good idea to shoot a 180gr bullet @ those velocities from a relatively light K frame revolver? I wouldn't do it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone either. Possible from a M27 or M28 N frame but not a K frame.

I just can't understand why everyone is so high on buffalo bore ammo for everything. (especially when you haven't shot it yourself) Sure it has it's place but most of their stuff isn't a do-all load.

I stand by my suggestion above, a 158gr JSP @1250 fps is more than enough from a 4" K frame IMHO...

I was giving a K frame limit, not a recommendation. Others will need to decide for themselves. The ammo has been shot out of J frames, and is safe in any steel gun in good condition and rated for .357 mag per the BB web site.
I would carry the ammo in a steel K or J frame mag, with the idea that I would not be shooting it, except in an extreme case. In such an instance I would take a pain pill and accept the extra wear to my gun. I would not be concerned that the gun would blow up.
The 158 gr JSP would also be a good choice for me.

Rick