Have any of you used the Federal Cartridge Hi-Shok 2-HST and Federal Cartridge Hydra-Shok 9mm ammo? Worth buying or not? Am going to get another couple of boxes of Speer Gold Dots and saw this brand too but didn't know anything about it.

I don't know about 9mm but I carry Hydra-Shok in both my .40's and .45's. It is an older ammo but at the time it was very highly rated in stopping ability and both calibers function well in my guns.

Hydra-Shok was the go to ammo at one point, but it is dated. HST is the redesigned better version of it. It is good ammo, I'd have no issue using it. It and Winchester Ranger are two of the preferred LE rounds. Look up Doc Roberts ammo tests, he's got some info on HST on that study I think.

Thanks for the replies. Think I will stick with the Gold Dots. Do you prefer the 124gr or 124gr+P out of the Shield 9mm?

Nothing wrong with the GD's in 9mm, GD's have had failings in a few calibers, but the 9mm results are excellent. +P does better in testing, if the Shield is rated +P, I do not own one. +P will also help make up for the short barrel. Are you aware Speer makes short barrel specialty ammo?

Yeah I have seen the short barrel Gold Dot ammo but haven't used or read anything about it.

Since you have a shorter barrel, you will have less velocity. The short barrel version of gold dots is designed to expand at the lower velocity.

The +P might be designed to expand at a higher velocity which you might not achieve with the shorter barrel. Also you take the chance of extra wear and battering. Shoot some +P and if the cases are thrown 10' or more, you might want a heavier spring then the lighter loaded ammo might not function right etc.

IMO you don't need +P out of that light gun, the short barrel ammo would probably work better for your purpose.

I do need to shoot some more +p through the Shield. Have only put 5 +p rounds through it. The short barrel gold dots are 124+p too.

I went ahead an ordered another box of 50 124 & 124+p instead of a box of 20 short barrel--same price. Everybody has different opinions and thoughts. And it seems like everyone contradicts everyone else. I just need to find out which load I can shoot most accurately. Never shot 147gr out of it so would like to do that some point.

Yes, the miracle of human evolution has made the body immune to "outdated" bullet designs.

No doubt a .58 caliber minnie ball would merely bounce off the chest of a soldier today if still in use. likewise, Jessie James would be laughed at for shooting an outdated cap and ball .36 cal. Only bigger and newer designs have any hope of causing bodily harm.

Yes, I still carry Hydrashoks, as well as Gold Dots, PDX1s and anything else that will bore a hole in the human body. There's no bullet or caliber out there that hasn't performed perfectly or failed miserably at some time.

....and a Model T will still get you to the store, but it does not mean it's best for day to day driving.

Feel free to state differing opinions, as for the sarcasm, maybe you are having a bad day, but I don't need it.

HI-SHOK; I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING .45 HI-SHOK IN MY .45 FOR YEARS.I'TS THE MOST ACCURATE .45 DUTY ROUND AT 50YDS FROM MY DUTY ( AND MATCH) GUNS. 185GR AND ABOT 1000 FPS FEDERAL 45C IS AWESOME. JIM P

THE 9MM HI-SHOK IS VERY ACCURATE ALSO.

You have to admit, that post was pretty funny.

Yes, bullet design has come a long way in the last 30 or so years, but I think he was merely trying to satirize the praise people typically lavish on "latest and greatest wonder bullets" which all too frequently amounts to little more than argumentum ad novitatem.

I'd suggest reading the linked report. It's specifically for 9mm Luger only. You can go to their website and look at most all of the different pistol chamberings and bullet performance specs.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/9x19mm%2...one%20Test.pdf

Per their summary, the Cor-Bon 115+p DPX and the Federal 105 EFMJ are the best for self defense.

Those Synbone tests kind of make you wonder if Duncan Macpherson really should have been so hyperfocused on his four layers of denim. Granted, people can argue that the placement of the bone simulant plate wasn't "realistic," but I was shocked to see the 124 gr. GDHP +P perform more like ball; that round is typically a robust expander after passing through intermediate barriers.

Much agree. If something worked well, it should still work well.

So much of the latest and greatest designs owe as much to the marketing department as it does the engineers.

And if someone laughs at an 80gr .36 cailber ball, see if they will let you shoot them with it.

Innovation is a terrible thing.........

Attempting to deny there has not been vast improvements in ammo is the last 10 to 15 years defies reality, everyone should use what makes them happy, but that does not mean what works today can't be improved upon.

Much agree with good innovations, too. I certainly
Prefer the power and handling of my modern car over the Model T. But not all innovation is good, and some very old things still work very well.

Anyone want to pick up some shiny new hope-n-change to replace that old relic of a Constitution?

I agree that is best to pick whatever you feel most comfortable with. The mental advantage matters at least as much as the engineering.

I agree with you on both aspects of your posts. New does not always mean better. Pass on the hopey changey thing.

Common sense needs to be applied, looking for better vs just new. Confidence is a good thing.

Have a good one.

Sometimes I think ammo design is like Shick or Gilette telling us that we need more blades in a new expensive razor to get a decent shave.

I still favor my Giilette Trac II and I use Hydra-Shok ammo. I have faith in both, although I have some HST, Gold Dot, and Silvertip .357 ammo. I think it all works, if you have reasonably effective design and put the bullet where it needs to go. I know someone who decked nine men stone dead with NATO 9mm ball ammo. He is out of the Army now and favors HST in both 9mm and .45, but coped with what he had, when he had to. He did have to fire more than once to drop a couple of people, but the bullets weren't ideally placed. If he could have used Gold Dot or HST, he would have.

Sorry about the razor blade comparison: I'm just ticked off that the grocery and drug stores here seem to have quit stocking Trac II blades, and I hate paying more for some super blades that don't really do any more. So I bought some disposable razors, which are almost as good as Trac iI's.
BTW, the modern razor with disposable blades was designed by King Gilette and dates from 1903. Thought that enquiring minds might like to know. (King was just his name; he was an American.)

I carry Hydra-Shok's in my Colt Mark IV Series 80 Government .380. It's the only HP that will feed reliably through that sweet old pistol!

Back in the '80s Masaad Ayoob (spelling) shot a bunch of cows in the head. He determined that the Hydra-Shok was the best at killing cows with his then favorite 4506. The cows were in line to be burgers anyway. Having an unreasonable fear of zombie cow attacks, I have loaded this ammo in many calibers ever since. And I still have the 4506.

You must be doing something right. Have not seen any zombie cows up this way.

Thanks, I just try to put everything in the right perspective

I thought you would. Good call.

And you as well. I already have, as I enjoy a good exchange with decent fellows.

Be well...

Yes they do.

By your handle I take it you know something about tennis, probably a lot more than I do.

So what happens when someone asks:

What is a good ball?

What brand and kind of racket should I use? String tension?

The best shoes?

What kind of answers will they get?

They should not get answers, they should get more questions:

What level player are you?

What surface are you playing on? Grass, clay?

Who are you playing against?

and so on...

What I'd like to see on these kind of best ammobulletgunholstersights kinds of threads are more questions.

Where do you live? What is your home, work and play environment like? How do you dress? Do you carry everyday or keep something in the nightstand?

Who is around you who could be a problem, and how do they dress, and where will you encounter them? In an office, the street, in a car or in your living room at 3am?

I live in South Florida. I am on the road most of the day as well as the office. Proper business attire in my line of work is a nice polo and dress pants, maybe a collared shirt.

Kind of hard to hide a worthwhile fighting handgun on my person and not look out of place. And only the tourists wear fanny packs... In the wrong place here a fanny pack makes you a target, and I prefer to be invisible.

Even on all three days of winter no one here is wearing four layers of denim, but there are a few crazy people on the roads. Shooting from or into a car is not a far fetched scenario.

I've got my home pretty well sorted out. I know how someone would get in and out and what would be between us, and how to deal with it.

Based on all that I can then make intelligent decisions about what sort of gun and ammunition I will need and can get better opinions from others.

tennisguy, I'm not knocking your original post, just suggesting a different way people who respond may approach these threads with more helpful advice.

And to answer your question, Hydra-Shoks work just fine. The only ones I have now are some .38 +P 129gr old style. I have had them so long I can't rememeber where I got them, but I know I didn't buy them.

I kept them because they expand and penetrate just as beautifully in my 2" 5-shooters as they do in my 4"guns, and are easy on the hands.

I am down to my last 18 and probably won't buy more only because I have three full loads for my six-shooters and have developed a practice load at the same weight, speed and point of aim, so I don't have to shoot them. That's good, because I can't seem find them around here anymore.

My biggest real gripe with all the new bling is that good old stuff goes away. I still carefully hoard my dwindling supply of Speer .45 cal 200gr Flying Ashtrays and buy any that I can find.

If you find some ammo you really like, stock up. You never know when some shiny new thing will make it obsolete...

Out of all the posts made - this is my favorite. Why? Because Martimus said "the only HP that will feed reliably"... You can have the most recent, advanced, super-duper bullet and if it doesn't work well in your SD pistol/revolver of choice - it isn't worth doodley - at least to the shooter of that particular gun.

Find one that is reliable in your gun of choice, is reasonably accurate and make sure it goes where you intend for it to go. Even if it doesn't expand ideally, at least it went bang, and hopefully hit the intended target.

If it didn't, the shooter will either be very good at clearing mis-fires or now have the services of a short club.

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M&PC FS BG Shield+ 642 686+

any bullet beats throwing rocks

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Aim small miss small

Unless the rocks are Kryptonite and your attacker is Superman.

Tah-Dah! We have a winner!

Cerebus62 has a good point about buying extras of anything you like, because they'll quit making it. I bought two spare Buck 120 knives when I heard that they'd quit making it, other than special runs for some distributor who ordered a bunch.

One was scuffed up a little by a prior owner who didn't take good care of hs equipment, but Buck refinished it for me. They take good care of their customers. They also sharpened it, re-setting the edge bevels correctly, as the former owner had buggered the angles. The knife now looks new.

BTW, Hydra-Shok has been tweaked over the years, and later generations work even better than the original. This is modern ammo, not your father's stuff. And the Federal PR guy told me that 158 grain .357 Hydra-Shok works very well on whitetailed deer, if placed well. I'd sure go for heart or lung shots, though, and limit ranges to about 75 yards. But that's true of any .357 round used on game.

"Handloads" lists the 124 grain 9mm (non +P) Hydra Shok as one of their 3 top performing bullets in 243 total shootings.

They also list the 45 ACP, 230 grain Hydra Shok as a 96% one shot stopper in 173 shootings.

I reckon all those newer bullets must have at least a 120% rating.

Either that or there are a lot more credible testing methods and entities. I think I'll go with the FBI criteria and their guy's testing myself, to each his own, I'm not the gun behind other people's sights.

lol very true sir.

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Aim small miss small

You have to remember that the FBI test protocol was for their requirements. The introduction stated that one should look at their expected usage and pay attention to those tests that reflected that usage.

If you don't expect to shoot people in cars, metal/glass penetration aren't relevant to your use. Also, tests are to allow comparison between different ammo types. They don't predict results in the real world.

A lot of folks figured that if you're involved in shooting incidents where 50% of the time the bad guys were in cars, this is a clue that you ought to be carrying something other than a pistol.

There is a lot more to premium self defense ammunition than just the bullet design used. A few years ago I purchased a nice little model 60-16 for the wife to learn to shoot. I immediately proceeded to the range to test the gun with a box of Sellier & Bellot, a box of Magtech, and a box of Hydra-Shok. I began with the cheap stuff testing the gun. I was highly dissapointed with the number of FTF's I got with the gun. I had heard this was possible with the firing pin S&W was shipping in this gun. But before leaving I decided I would set the sights and laser grip with the Hydra-Shok. To my surprise, not a single Hydra-shok failed to fire. Now the only thing that could cause this is Federal uses a much more reliable primer in their components that takes far less strike to ignite. I have also been very impressed over the years on how clean the Hydra-Shok powder burns. And there is also a significant reduction in low light flash from Hydra-Shok compared to cheap ammo which I have observed.

Now these things are probably also true of the other brands of premium self defense ammo on the market. But I have seen the results of the Hydra-shok ammunition and trust it. There may have been improvements in bullet design in the last few years but there is no reason to believe it is a significant difference. Hydra-shok was the choice of many PD's in the day and no reason it will not perform just as well today. I am well invested in Hydra-Shok ammunition and feel no need to upgrade until I run low.

Yep, like them hydrashoks too. Once killed a running buck with my 1911 (45)with Hydrashoks. Bullet went through one shoulder. Through the body and clipped the leg on the off side. I WAS impressed.

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S&W Accumulator