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Old 11-24-2012, 04:57 PM
686fan 686fan is offline
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Default +P in 45 ACP

I'd like your opinions on whether +P is necessary in 45 ACP for self-defense. I like what I've read about Winchester Ranger T 230 grain JHP. The +P seems to have about 10% more velocity than the standard load. I know that +P can cause more wear & tear on the handgun. I have a Glock 21. Personally, I'm leaning toward the +P. I've always thought that for self-defense, higher velocity was a good thing.

Thanks for your thoughts.









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Old 11-24-2012, 09:46 PM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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10% is going to be around 80fps with a 230gr bullet. Do you really need an additional 80fps? It's always going to leave a .45 caliber hole, expanded or not.

However, you may have to shoot a second time and I will bet the shot to shot times will be slower with +P.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:52 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 686fan View Post
I'd like your opinions on whether +P is necessary in 45 ACP for self-defense. I like what I've read about Winchester Ranger T 230 grain JHP. The +P seems to have about 10% more velocity than the standard load. I know that +P can cause more wear & tear on the handgun. I have a Glock 21. Personally, I'm leaning toward the +P. I've always thought that for self-defense, higher velocity was a good thing.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Not necessary in my opinion.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:15 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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There was a time when .45 factory loads were getting a little weak, some not even breaking 800 FPS, but I think the Winchester Ranger loads are not that way. If the standard pressure loads are somewhere around 850-875 FPS, I would be fine with them.

I no longer have a G21 but when I did I remember using a box or two of Ranger +Ps in it. Don't recall any trouble at all. I still have about two boxes left and I have used them a time or two in my M&P45. What little testing I have done with it, it seems to shoot them very well.

When I buy more, I doubt I will order the +Ps, but if it happens that they are all I can get, I would not be unhappy. They are pretty good .45s, from what I have seen. Unless you plan to shoot a huge amount of them, I doubt they are going to do a G21 much harm, but that is JMHO.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:46 PM
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+P for me

Remeber velocity is squared in the energy equation.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:53 PM
Dragon88 Dragon88 is offline
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The extra energy of +P cannot be ignored. As mentioned above, even 100 fps in the energy equation makes a significant difference. That said, I mostly use standard pressure ammo in my 45s. A good 45 ACP SD load at standard pressure is very powerful, and I prefer the controllability that it gives me over +P. The only carry combination I have ever tried that I was uncomfortable with was +P Rangers in a Kimber Ultra Carry II. That was down right painful to shoot, and not very controlable at all!

Remember, you can't miss fast enough to win. Pick a load that allows you good performance and the confidence to make hits on target.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:13 PM
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+P loads have noticeably more recoil, so you might want to figure that into your follow up shots equation. Maybe put the +p at the bottom of the mag as an indicator that its time to swap mags.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:14 AM
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Bigger and faster is always better in both bulllets and guns.

Emory
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:39 AM
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I carry Speer 200gr+P in my 4513TSW no rail. Higer velocity = more energy to the 2nd power . E + M*V*V
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:17 AM
CTG_COLLECTOR CTG_COLLECTOR is offline
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Your Glock can shoot any factory loaded ammo including +P loads. And unless you are a competition shooter and burn up multiple thousands of rounds of +P a month through your Glock, you should see no appreciable wear on your gun for numerous decades.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:56 AM
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Not sure if a 230gr bullet can be driven fast enough , even at +P pressure , for reliable expansion in anything but ballistic gel.

I used to carry the original Remington 185gr SJHP+P. It was a smoking hot round and the bullet had a big hollow cavity , deeply scalloped jacket and would expand voilently. It had a good record in actual shootings.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:48 PM
Dann Fassnacht Dann Fassnacht is offline
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I carry the Speer 230 grain Gold Dot HPs in my 4506, and in no-way do I feel undergunned by not having a +P load in my pistol...A big, heavy HP works fine for me.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:01 PM
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My department issues the Federal 230 gr. bonded Plus-P. I carry an aluminum frame Colt Commander. There isn't a huge amount of recoil difference between them and Federal red box 230 gr. FMJ.

Do they expand on human targets? Yes, they do. So did their predecessor round, the Hydra-Shok.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:13 PM
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There are so many good non +P loads in 45 acp that the slight velocity gain weighed against the slower recovery time make +P loads not necessary IMO. HSTs, Gold Dots, Hydro Shoks and PDX1s to name a few all have a great track record even out of short barrels. Go with what you're comfortable with. The only +P load that I do like in this caliber are Corbon DPXs.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Not sure if a 230gr bullet can be driven fast enough , even at +P pressure , for reliable expansion in anything but ballistic gel.
This^^^^^^. The extra small bit of velocity is not a huge factor for performance, but can be an issue for follow up shots, noise, blast, recoil, etc.

The fact of the matter is that a pistol is a poor choice for a defensive weapon anyway...I was always taught to use my pistol to fight my way to my rifle.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:03 AM
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If you can't do the job with a .45 ACP standard FMJ ball round, you should be using a shotgun. No problem, I suppose, in using them in your carry gun while carrying, but I would avoid shooting very many in practice for economic reasons alone if for no other reason. Recovery for follow-up additional shots will be impaired if you use +P.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:07 PM
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My department issues the Federal 230 grain +P HST JHP to the officers who carry the Glock 21 and Glock 30 (detectives). I am one of a few who have opted to carry the G19 in case you're wondering. Anyway we have had a couple officer involved shootings since the switch to the +P 45. It did it's job - no problems.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:47 PM
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A Glock will handle +P rounds with no problems. I have a G20SF 10mm and shoot the Buffalo Bore +P+ ammo with no issues.

My normal carry gun is a 1911. I carry the Winchester PDX1 230 grain in them because they are at the top of the standard range for energy and work well in all of my 1911s. Shooting a steady diet of very hot +P in a 1911, can cause premature wear, cracked frames, and cracked slides.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:11 AM
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What a shame the marketing weenies have so convinced so many shooters you must have more velocity to make ammo any good. I guess data for the .45 Auto with over 100 years of stopping a man size target is made up. Oh yeah, and the +P costs more too so it must be better!
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:19 AM
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I say just stick with standard rounds. I am not a huge fan of +P my self. To me the extra recoil does not justify the real world difference a 100 our so FPS is going to make.

Has there been any real world evidence to prove that +P ammo stops a threat in fewer shots?
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:29 PM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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Bullet type and construction will matter more than velocity. That said, I believe 230 gr. bullets generally suffer from lack of velocity in .45 ACP factory loads and could benefit from a few more FPS.

Dave Sinko
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:13 PM
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+p,+p,+P...................

Sergeant York only had a 9mm he got off a German.........
Korea had just standard 45 ammo................

+1 for the standard stuff................
its all about the "New style" of bullets that do the job.

If you notice, Speer does not go for maximum velositys but makes improvments instead on their bullets not how much powder they shove into the cases.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:19 PM
Dimitri deharak Dimitri deharak is offline
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Default +Ps in MP45.

I read somewhere that a Winchester PDX1 230 grain is NOT +P. I thought it was! Anyway my question is this In the MP45 manual it says +P ammo is not recomended due to the high pressures it generates. SO can i shoot PDX1 through this gun or not?

thanks
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:39 PM
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My opinion is in a lighter pistol I wouldn't use +p . But in full size pistols I could see an advantage . I have a 645 & I'm intending to change my springs & use +p almost exclusively . I like 357 mag & in my revolvers I prefer a 357 to a 38 but in my 44special mag I carry 44special specials. To me , knockdown power & velocity needs to be weighed against over penetration.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:05 PM
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Timely post, as I'm about to go sit in a deer stand with only a Colt Commander on my hip, loaded with Hornady .45 ACP +P 230 gr. XTP's.

The area, and any shot presented will be of the 'bowhunter' scenario and anything 'iffy' will be passed up.
Have all the confidence in the world in it.
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