non+P 38 snub nose SD loads

[Nevada Ed]

Ok, I have a 38 Spl. snub nose non-+P old model and I just want to ask which is the better load forthe best penetration and bullet expansion.

Some say the winchester 110gr silver tip is a very good load, while others say the Federal 125gr Nyclad is the go to load.
Many say velosity is needed and some say bullet weight wins out over all the light weight,fast vel. bullets.

Neither is a barn burner but both are "Safe" in the older guns................I have no idea what the hornady non+p
loads do in a snub nose.

What is your call..............?

[vytoland]

148gr DEWC @ 760 - 800 fps

[Hapworth]

Been discussed much -- run a search.

I'd opt for Hornady Critical Defense 110gr standard pressure. It's controversial because the makers said it wasn't designed for FBI gel test criteria, but it performs well in tests.

Of course, there's standard pressure Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHC, but the numbers it generates sure aren't standard pressure.

[rwsmith]

According to the charts the most energy in a .38 is with the 125 to 140 grain bullet. If I had to chose between 110 gr and 158 gr I'd take the heavier bullet because it seems to be what hunters use and I figure they would know. Of course an attacker probably won't stop to do the math.

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Hapworth

Been discussed much -- run a search.

That's true, there have been many threads on this and a lot of information in those threads.

I like the 125gr Federal Nyclad .38 Special ammo because the lead they use is soft enough to reliably expand at the lower velocities usually associated with a short barrel revolver. It's a time tested and street tested round that does what it was designed to do.

[alwslate]

Handloaded cast BB or DE 148 gr WCs at about 800 fps or 158 gr SWCs
at 725 - 750 fps.

[bassoneer]

I tested standard, non +P Hornady hollow points in water, shot from a snubbie, and they did not expand at all due to the low velocity. I'm guessing their "critical defense" rounds probably would expand, but I would not expect the standard Hornady hollow points to expand in non +P from a snubbie. Best wishes, B

[snubbyfan]

I use 110 grain Federal Hydrashok in my 442. I figure that the lighter bullet would be less likely to overpenetrate while giving cause to have someone reconsider some of the choices they made in life should I have to use it.

[AirForceShooter]

Plain old wad cutters.

AFS

[badge 851]

No contest IMHO - Carry & shoot the Federal® 125gr Nyclad™s.

[robertrwalsh]

Give only that choice, I would go with the somewhat heavier NyClad. If all I could get was the Silvertip I wouldn't feel bad about using it.

[pete950]

Full wadcutter 800 fps if you want factory stuff Buffalo Bore or DoubleTtap full wadcutter gets I think 740fps out of a 2 inch.

I use the Double Taps in my airweight!

[sureshotbob]

Of course, there's standard pressure Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHC, but the numbers it generates sure aren't standard pressure. [/QUOTE]
I use the above load in my 642 and love it.

[Nevada Ed]

Thank you for all the great info..............

I will pick up a box or two of the Nyclad's and...........
see what I can get out of some BBwc bullets, as far as POA and how hard I can push them before I get to 3.80 ft/lbs of recoil,that is about the same as the nyclad's recoil.

[kaaskop49]

Hi from Vegas, Nevada Ed! I wonder if a plain soft-lead SWC might be the ticket in a J-frame. On YouTube, a poster 'TNoutdoors9' does many bullet tests with cloth draped over ballistic gel, and the cloth often plugs up HPs. Winch and Rem used to offer service SWCs in white-box loads when the .38 was the cop standard. Rem lead was softer than Winch. BuffaloBore offers standard pressure .38s, including a wadcutter loading at 'service' velocity, not target, originally developed in the 1930s. Check their website. Hope this helps. VL

[Triggernosis]

I recommend this: Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Handgun Details

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Triggernosis

I recommend this: Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Handgun Details

I had no idea at all Speer had a standard velocity .38 Special Gold Dot round. Is that new? Last time I looked at the LE site I don't remember seeing it.

[IkenI]

Originally Posted by badge 851

No contest IMHO - Carry & shoot the Federal® 125gr Nyclad™s.

This is my choice!

[Nevada Ed]

125gr Gold Dot out of a 4" at only 865fps....???
That would be +/- 800fps out of a snub nose with 177 ft/lbs of energy.

It has been proven that the thin skin 135gr GD does not expand at 800 fps and the 125Gr GD has a thicker jacket,
sure would like to see a gel test on this load.

The 125 Nyclad expands ,since it is made of super soft lead......

Very interresting..............

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

It has been proven that the thin skin 135gr GD does not expand at 800 fps...

Got links?

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

It has been proven that the thin skin 135gr GD does not expand at 800 fps...

Funny thing is, Speer specifically designed that 135gr bullet for their short barrel ammunition to ensure the bullet expands reliably @~800 fps. Their 125gr or 158gr bullets are a different story but the 135gr bullet was designed to be reliable at the lower velocities associated with short barrel revolvers.

[hotrod150]

Personally I would avoid any ammo with a fancy name, with the possible exception of nyclads. I prefer a plain old soft lead 158 gr SWC (with or without hollowpoint), but would accept the 125gr or 158 gr nyclad. Don't know the price on those or even if they're available, but the newer fancy-named stuff is too spendy & in spite of marketing hype I'm not sure they work any better out of a snub barrel.

[Nevada Ed]

I went back to the post and you are correct........
the velosity in the 2" M60 was.........

798fps with it expanding to .585 dia in the water jug test.

125 xtp at 846 fps only expanded to .402 dia with 23 inches of penetration.
the 125 GD +P at 914 fps expanded to .592 dia. with 17" water penetration.

Sorry......I got the figures mixed up.

Speer might have increased the velosity since this old test,since I know they changed the jacket on it to improve on another old test where they only started to expand and they sent a newer improved bullet in ammo to the tester on one of the sites that I found,that mushroomed correctly on the next testing.