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Old 01-14-2013, 04:57 PM
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Default Why there is an ammo shortage

There are widely circulated reports that the Dept. of Homeland Security and other government agencies have been quietly buying up massive quantities of ammo in recent months without explanation. Some think it's to quell civil unrest amid all the talk of insurrections down the road.

One report put the amount at 1.6 billion rounds in the past six months. I'd post a link but it's copyrighted. This is in addition to ammunition and ordnance purchased for military use in overseas wars.

While I understand gun owners are snapping up every bullet they can, I wonder whether the ammo makers gave precedence to the government in taking and filling orders. Could be the MAIN reason why there's little or no ammo out there.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:17 PM
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BHO Is a good reason!
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:20 PM
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Simpler explanation? For tax purposes, companies tightly control inventories in the 4th quarter. SHTF in late December, demand overwhelms supply, there is a time lag before production can catch up with demand.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:41 PM
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I can tell you the ammo shortage is only going to get worse, much worse. If Cuomo here in NY gets his way and gets the background check for every ammo purchase and no online sales then the supply will dry up on everything. I plan on getting some ammo for my shotgun when I go out tomorrow, 16 gauge is pretty easy to buy and I plan on reloading everything except .22 Long Rifle. I will get more primers if possible too because not everyone around here reloads and they are in pretty decent supply, especially small pistol.
I have no idea why DHS is buying up so much ammo, I know our little department goes through untold thousands every year with qualifications, so maybe they are getting ahead of the curb, who knows. What I do know is DHS is buying hollowpoints, most departments I know used cheaper hardball for their qualifications so who knows, it could be routine or it could be more sinister, I won't elaborate or throw out guesses.
Ammo is the lifeblood of any gun, without it we have paperweights and clubs, many of us have been warning that this was coming and it was only a matter of time, it was one of the reasons in the last few years I went a lot deeper into reloading and casting. I intend to get a .30-30 soon and I plan on casting for that gun right along with my handguns.
I don't know where we are heading, it's not to anywhere good. I told the wife today I am seriously going to have to think about staying in NY but until I see what Obama is going to do executive order wise there is no sense worrying about moving to anywhere. If he decides to tax the heck out of ammunition it will be a moot point where you live and I think he knows that. Obama and Cuomo are not stupid although I think Cuomo would be happy for gun owners to leave, Obama will just be happy to inflict as much damage as possible monetary wise, Obamacare proved that a tax is constitutional and don't think for a second he won't use that ruling here.
I tell people to reload, and they better get the goods to do it soon. Between the threats of new laws and bans, ammo is disappearing faster than pizza at a weight watchers convention and when its gone, its going to be gone for some time.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:19 PM
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The Gov doesn't buy production ammo. They buy huge, matched lots of ammo, all the same loading per bid letting. It doesn't go through civilian channels, or warehouses.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David LaPell View Post
I can tell you the ammo shortage is only going to get worse, much worse. If Cuomo here in NY gets his way and gets the background check for every ammo purchase and no online sales then the supply will dry up on everything. I plan on getting some ammo for my shotgun when I go out tomorrow, 16 gauge is pretty easy to buy and I plan on reloading everything except .22 Long Rifle. I will get more primers if possible too because not everyone around here reloads and they are in pretty decent supply, especially small pistol.
I have no idea why DHS is buying up so much ammo, I know our little department goes through untold thousands every year with qualifications, so maybe they are getting ahead of the curb, who knows. What I do know is DHS is buying hollowpoints, most departments I know used cheaper hardball for their qualifications so who knows, it could be routine or it could be more sinister, I won't elaborate or throw out guesses.
Ammo is the lifeblood of any gun, without it we have paperweights and clubs, many of us have been warning that this was coming and it was only a matter of time, it was one of the reasons in the last few years I went a lot deeper into reloading and casting. I intend to get a .30-30 soon and I plan on casting for that gun right along with my handguns.
I don't know where we are heading, it's not to anywhere good. I told the wife today I am seriously going to have to think about staying in NY but until I see what Obama is going to do executive order wise there is no sense worrying about moving to anywhere. If he decides to tax the heck out of ammunition it will be a moot point where you live and I think he knows that. Obama and Cuomo are not stupid although I think Cuomo would be happy for gun owners to leave, Obama will just be happy to inflict as much damage as possible monetary wise, Obamacare proved that a tax is constitutional and don't think for a second he won't use that ruling here.
I tell people to reload, and they better get the goods to do it soon. Between the threats of new laws and bans, ammo is disappearing faster than pizza at a weight watchers convention and when its gone, its going to be gone for some time.
Good points, David. But .22LR is in very short supply and you can't reload that. I bought the last brick at LGS today. Not many outlets in the rural area where I live and can't get on-line. Guess I'll be shooting less and complaining more.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:38 PM
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I have talked to both Walmart and Dicks Sporting Goods corporate offices today and both have told me that they have not ordered any ammo since the shooting at Sandy Hook. They said that they weren't either until they find out what obama is going to do. It could be a while. Same goes for rifles
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:29 PM
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Guess I'll be shooting less and complaining more.
That works for me!

Just to be clear about it, with the shortages we're seeing, Dicks and WalMart not ordering won't do much to the suppliers. They're cranking out all the ammo they can. What the buying surge did was empty the pipeline. All the supply chains did the obvious. They stepped up deliveries as orders were received. Its what they do for a living.

Keep in mind the factories are still operating, and probably putting in some OT when they can. So the pipelines are still getting ammo, just no where near enough to fill back up. If two big "takers" aren't ordering, its probably a good thing because the small guys will get their orders faster.

As I understand the 22 situation, WalMart is the only place that gets certain packs. The big example is Federal 550s. Everyone else gets Federal 525s. If you see a shooter with the 550s, he got them at walmart. If you see them at a gun show, someone went WallyWorld shopping to sell at a profit. I'd guess any ammo in the pipeline destined for WalMart will go there and be sold. Ammo isn't a dirty word out in the fly over country (where most of us live.) I'd think the Federal ammo factories have been listening to the news. If Walmart doesn't want anymore, the factory won't be packing or shipping 550s. The ammo is the same in 525s. No difference except walmart shoppers get 25 more shots per pack. The guys who work in scheduling will just bump the 550s until the situation stabilizes.

This isn't brain science. Factories do what is in their best interest. Our lowly American consumers have done that, too. Its why the shelves are empty. We bought it up at the "old" low price. The free market will soon establish a new price level, and it won't be lower.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:06 AM
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Total Panic Buying Mode !
Folks that normally buy a box or two of ammo a year are buying two or three cases..
P-Mags that normally go for $18 selling for $30 or more ,, limit two per customer. " If I get two , can my wife buy two also?"

I saw a 1000 rounds of 55 gr 5.56 on GB for $1200+ .. are you kidding me? AR lowers for $400 - $500 , are you crazy ?

During the last ammo shortage,, we got a skid of .22 ammo in the store.
A lady asked if there was a limit on it ,, told her No.
She put 10 bricks of .22 ammo in her cart.. With most people that's enough .22 to last them 5 years or more..

I've lived thru 2, or 3, ammo / reloading component shortages ,, I always try to stay a year ahead.. Two, depending on who gets elected.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:23 PM
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It's a matter of time before BO places an exessive tax on ammo via the EPA.

This year I will definitely reload.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:08 PM
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I have talked to both Walmart and Dicks Sporting Goods corporate offices today and both have told me that they have not ordered any ammo since the shooting at Sandy Hook. They said that they weren't either until they find out what obama is going to do. It could be a while. Same goes for rifles
Odd. That's not the public disclosure that was given by WalMart around January 14. From World Net Daily;

"That information is inaccurate,” said Ashley Hardie, a spokeswoman located at Walmart’s corporate headquarters in Bentonville, Ark. WND then asked whether the retail chain is cutting back on orders of ammunition.

“No,” Hardie said. “We’re continuing to serve our customers as we have in the past. She said Walmart’s ammunition sales policy has not changed, even amid talk of gun-control legislation in Washington, D.C.

The uproar began when the InvestmentWatch blog posted a story headlined, “Breaking & confirmed: Walmart is not going to order any more ammo.”
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:25 PM
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Even for those of us that reload, the prices of components has gone way up. Forget the price most everything is out of stock anyway. Most of the powder and primers are Unobtanium. Most all of the on-line stores are "out of stock". Just try to find CCI small pistol primers out there.

My local gun shop got a shipment of Winchester small pistol primers in and were rationing them off to their "best" customers for 49.50 a box of a thousand!!!!! OMG you have got to be kidding. Some one just stop the madness.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:25 PM
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It's nothing more than an overly large draw in the pipeline. I buy a lot of bullets from Berry's. For the past few years delivery took 4 to 5 days. They're so backed up on orders now that the quoted delivery is 4 to 5 weeks.

As far as Uncle Sam's ammo purchase, the military was stockpiling in anticipation of the potential spending cuts that would have hit them if the vote hadn't backed us off the fiscal cliff.

It'll settle down.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:28 PM
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I've been wondering how long it would take for MIB stories to surface.

I can hear the black helicopters circling!
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:38 PM
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There are widely circulated reports that the Dept. of Homeland Security and other government agencies have been quietly buying up massive quantities of ammo in recent months without explanation. Some think it's to quell civil unrest amid all the talk of insurrections down the road.

One report put the amount at 1.6 billion rounds in the past six months. I'd post a link but it's copyrighted. This is in addition to ammunition and ordnance purchased for military use in overseas wars.
If you go behind the fear mongering stories, you'll find that most of the contracts are for several years. The annual amount of ammo isn't that huge.

One government agency's purchase seem huge, until you divide by the number of armed agents and realize it's only about 600 rounds a year for each. To a lot of shooters, buying that many JHPs seems odd, until you realize many agencies train and qualify with what they carry.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:41 PM
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What will prolong this frenzy is people paying these outrageous prices! If everyone would just stop the panic buying on ammo it would level out. Dealers are exploiting this situation to the max. It's time to hunker down and just wait it out.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:06 AM
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I'm wondering why the factories ssemingly haven't been shipping from their warehouse stock. Is Magpul all out of mags? Hornady out of bullets?
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:51 AM
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They have been shipping as usual. I was in my LGS Friday during lunch hour. Dude comes out of the back with a shopping cart full of boxes of stuff to restock the shelves. He was being followed like the Pied Piper and as soon as something had a price tag applied and was placed on the shelf - it was gone. Lots of retired folks with nothing better to do than hang around the gun shop waiting for the delivery trucks...

Supply hasn't changed. DEMAND however, is another thing entirely...
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:21 AM
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Makes sense... Then they go list 'em on the auctions for bingo money
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:16 PM
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I went to the Big5 store in Aberdeen (WA) yesterday to buy a few boxes of Remington 00 buckshot for my 12-gauge, and I was suprised to see all the ammo shelves FULL of ammo.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:42 PM
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Stopped by Cabelas earlier today for a look around. Thats all it was, looking with very little to see but bare shelves. Was told a few days earlier it was somewhat stocked, but gets wiped out very quickly, even with limits per person. Some .380, 327mag, 10mm, 9x18, but none of the more common, popular handgun or rifle calibers. No magazines either, and even the section for gun safes is looking pretty bare.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:09 PM
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Even for those of us that reload, the prices of components has gone way up. Forget the price most everything is out of stock anyway. Most of the powder and primers are Unobtanium. Most all of the on-line stores are "out of stock". Just try to find CCI small pistol primers out there.

My local gun shop got a shipment of Winchester small pistol primers in and were rationing them off to their "best" customers for 49.50 a box of a thousand!!!!! OMG you have got to be kidding. Some one just stop the madness.
I got lucky yesterday and bought a 1000 of each CCI small pistol magnum and large pistol magnum for $39.95 each. I didn't have to think about it very long. I even left some for someone else.

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Old 01-30-2013, 03:00 PM
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There are widely circulated reports that the Dept. of Homeland Security and other government agencies have been quietly buying up massive quantities of ammo in recent months without explanation. Some think it's to quell civil unrest amid all the talk of insurrections down the road.

One report put the amount at 1.6 billion rounds in the past six months. I'd post a link but it's copyrighted. This is in addition to ammunition and ordnance purchased for military use in overseas wars.

While I understand gun owners are snapping up every bullet they can, I wonder whether the ammo makers gave precedence to the government in taking and filling orders. Could be the MAIN reason why there's little or no ammo out there.
I called my local sporting goods shop who has been out of .22 ammo for almost a month to ask if it was now available. He told me that he called CCI last week, and that they told him that they were filling GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS, and that until they were filled that they would not be filling public orders. Said it would be a month before he would get any...I guess the gov't does go to the front of the line. Why is the government buying .22 ammo??

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Old 01-30-2013, 03:59 PM
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What’s sad is that the gov usually gets it at a bulk discount rate with incentives and usually not even taxed ... they find ways to get around all of that while we pay top dollar. I’ve sort of been wondering if there’s an even greater evil in plans. That perhaps if they are buying all of it up now, and a shortage or civil unrest does occur, that we’ll be forced to start buying ammo from the government, making them the lead supplier.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:14 PM
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For some people, a .22 pistol or rifle may be all they can afford to buy, and because the .22 ammo has historically been the least expensive. It seems like the government buying up .22 ammo from CCI(which is virtually all they produce) would effectively disarm these people.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:23 PM
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1. Don't believe everything the gun store guru tells you.

2. The government is BIG. The government has LOTS of armed agents. They have to train and qualify many times per year. They burn up LOTS of ammo.

3. The government DOES own black helicopters but they are NOT flying over your house.

Everyone relax. There is currently the highest public demand for guns and ammo I've seen in 20 years. The supply chain cannot keep up no matter how impatient the public gets.

Once things recover, please be sure to stock up BEFORE the next panic sets in.

p.s. Start saving your cash for April 15. There will be a ton of "assault" rifles and ammo for sale CHEAP.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:37 PM
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"Start saving your cash for April 15. There will be a ton of "assault" rifles and ammo for sale CHEAP"

In 2009 I bought my bushmaster LNIB W/4 mags 650.00 (M3A4)style
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:13 PM
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Looming ammo tax too. I can't find any reload stuff too no primers.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:26 PM
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It seems none of the regular stores selling reloading supplies have any primers, JHP bullets, and even pistol reloading powder and most won't even let you post and order on backorder so something is going on. If they thought they would be getting it in even in 3 months from now they would be letting you order on a backorder. The same goes for 223 and 7.62x39 rifle reloading components.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:32 PM
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3. The government DOES own black helicopters but they are NOT flying over your house.

Machine gun fire from military helicopters flying over downtown Miami Fl. - YouTube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Photoman44 View Post
1. Don't believe everything the gun store guru tells you.

2. The government is BIG. The government has LOTS of armed agents. They have to train and qualify many times per year. They burn up LOTS of ammo.

3. The government DOES own black helicopters but they are NOT flying over your house.

Everyone relax. There is currently the highest public demand for guns and ammo I've seen in 20 years. The supply chain cannot keep up no matter how impatient the public gets.

Once things recover, please be sure to stock up BEFORE the next panic sets in.

p.s. Start saving your cash for April 15. There will be a ton of "assault" rifles and ammo for sale CHEAP.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:41 AM
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"Why there is an ammo shortage?"

Because of me!

Just kidding but it is because of all of us. My local big box retailers have supplies of big name ammo in hard to get calibers. Thing is it's all $1/rd or more and supplies are low at that price. I can't bring myself to pay $25 for 20 rds of Federal Hydra-Shok even if it is P40HS2 for my G22. I have stocked up on 180gr ball though. Boxes of 50 are still $18 around here.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:41 AM
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3. The government DOES own black helicopters but they are NOT flying over your house.

Machine gun fire from military helicopters flying over downtown Miami Fl. - YouTube
thanks for the link. un-****ing-believable!
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:22 AM
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Lots of folks buying ammo right now. And some of them
don't even own guns......
There's your shortage.

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:24 AM
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Default Ammo shortage

What worries me is that it isn't just Ammo, try reloading dies in 223, It make s no sense, 22 lr, 5.56, 223, 30 06 is getting ridiculous in cost as is 270, primers are hard to find,
Seems anything to do with certain calibers. magazines, etc. What also gets my attention, is how is all this possible, we aren't talking a few thousand rounds, we are talking millions,you will never convince me that the average person out there bought up all the ammo, mags, primers, dies, etc in the whole country.
Something smells fishy.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:43 AM
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The ammo shortage is because people thought there was going to be one so they caused one by buying more than they needed. Its caused a self fulfilling prophesy. If everyone had gone about their normal buying there would be no shortage.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:26 PM
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That's easy. Panic buying.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:34 PM
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The shortage is fake. Brought to you by !@#$ people...
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:01 PM
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Stupid people paying stupid price's. I refuse to buy any ammo right now or any damn guns right now unless they are used revolvers. Glad I am not low on any ammo either, like the feeling I paid 70 percent less for my ammo then what this morons are paying now.

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Old 01-31-2013, 08:16 PM
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I have seen the DHS Request for Proposal for one of these huge ammo buys. If I can figure out how to do it, I will post the PDF document here.
New to this site but not new to guns, S&W or shooting.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rd97 View Post
The ammo shortage is because people thought there was going to be one so they caused one by buying more than they needed. Its caused a self fulfilling prophesy. If everyone had gone about their normal buying there would be no shortage.
Right now in my opinion it's not about need it's more about greed. I believe that a lot not all of the ammo and other gun related supplies are being grabbed up by those that think it's going to be the new gold. The other obvious part is the overzealous panicked masses running into every store they can get to and buying everything they can because there is a "shortage". All one has to do is research some of the boards and it all comes to light. Buyers boasting that they "bought all they had" or "the limit was three but I got me six". All that does is perpetuate the cycle and does what? Causes a "shortage". And the longer it continues the bigger the grin on the faces of the manufacturers and the dealers because they can jack up the prices and keep them there. And yes I understand the whole supply and demand concept, capitalism and the free market but man enough is enough.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:27 PM
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Once things recover, please be sure to stock up BEFORE the next panic sets in.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:19 PM
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I’m an avid shooter. I shoot every Saturday and Sunday of every week of the year. I shoot around 20000 rounds a year and my stock of ammo was always around 4000 rounds because my range used to sale ammo really cheap. Now I stopped going to the range on Sundays and I’m shooting less than halve than usual but I refuse to pay more than $2.00 more than I used to pay for my ammo and I’m sure that in 3- months I will be able to shoot again on Sundays. Those improvised buyers that never shoot and are buying tons of ammo cases in order to resell them would have to eat every round they bought because there won’t be any Ammo Ban in USA and almost sure won’t be any AWB nor any High Cap magazine ban and everything will be as normal as used to be 2 months ago. Do you wanna bet?
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:55 PM
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There's NO AMMO SHORTAGE!

The ammo just RELOCATED its home.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:56 PM
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At the local gun show today, .22 LR was up to $80/brick, and there were NO primers of any type for sale. Thank God I have a reasonably good supply of both.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by danysw View Post
I’m an avid shooter. I shoot every Saturday and Sunday of every week of the year. I shoot around 20000 rounds a year and my stock of ammo was always around 4000 rounds because my range used to sale ammo really cheap. Now I stopped going to the range on Sundays and I’m shooting less than halve than usual but I refuse to pay more than $2.00 more than I used to pay for my ammo and I’m sure that in 3- months I will be able to shoot again on Sundays. Those improvised buyers that never shoot and are buying tons of ammo cases in order to resell them would have to eat every round they bought because there won’t be any Ammo Ban in USA and almost sure won’t be any AWB nor any High Cap magazine ban and everything will be as normal as used to be 2 months ago. Do you wanna bet?
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:28 PM
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I've been to gun shows in Knoxville, TN in December and January. Never saw so many primers for sale, IIRC, $30-34 depending on brand. Lots of powder.

Prices for AR magazines actually dropped $10 from the December show.

If you want to know were the ammo is going, surf some of the other gun forums. Some guys are happy to post photos of the boxes of 9mm, 45 or .223, where they cleaned out a local Wal-Mart.

Internet ammo sellers are offering ammo (many at pre-panic prices), but word spreads on gun forums and thousands of cases sell within a couple hours.

My advice: take a deep breath, don't pay outrageous prices and wait till prices come down. If you still believe it's a conspiracy, don't bother with the generic tin foil, go straight to the Reynolds Heavy Duty.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:32 PM
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Sad to see so many of 'our own' take unfair advantage of the rest of our community. At a recent show, one friendly guy with whom I had previously shopped now had a NIB Colt mfg. M-4 for $2,995. Said he would keep it if he could not get that price. Also had .223 ammo in plastic bags for $1.50-ish a round. Come on people, you're hurting your own. VL
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaaskop49 View Post
Sad to see so many of 'our own' take unfair advantage of the rest of our community. At a recent show, one friendly guy with whom I had previously shopped now had a NIB Colt mfg. M-4 for $2,995. Said he would keep it if he could not get that price. Also had .223 ammo in plastic bags for $1.50-ish a round. Come on people, you're hurting your own. VL
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:32 PM
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No, I don't have an answer, still questions - but no one on here has answered it. With the prices being what they are, manufacturers should be going balls to the walls producing and taking advantage of this surge and profitability; yet, very little is hitting the shelves. A friend of mine owns an small ammo business. They can't manufacture, because they can't get components from the big guys. So - that is the real issue - with production way up, where are the rounds going?! Earlier posts talked about the shortage being due to rampant buying. That might have been relevant two months ago, but not now. Now the shelves are bare AND nothing is being shipped. I just called my local wallymart to find out what came in tonight on their twice weekly shipment; only to be told "12 gauge only.!" So again - where is all the currently made ammo going? Government Contractors have what is called a DPAS (Defense Priorities and Allocation System) rating on their contracts. When mandated and enacted, they are required to moved USG requirements to the forefront of their production schedules. Not that it hasn't happened, but if it did, that would explain why domestic manufactured ammo is not available. What about the Mexican., Argentinian, Brazilian, Korean, and you get the picture rounds? Sometimes it seems like Tul and Bear are the only ones getting through. So - not claiming or supporting any conspiracies, but the math is just not working. Notwithstanding war ammo, the quantity available is not equal to the quantity being made! Where is it?
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:29 PM
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GAO: U.S. Has Fired 250,000 Rounds For Every Insurgent Killed « JONATHAN TURLEY
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The General Accounting Office (GAO) reports that our forces are now using 1.8 billion rounds of small-arms ammunition a year — a level of use that has more than doubled in five years.
Israel and Korea are building up their own supplies and our domestic market is really burning it up. A day of target shooting used to be 50 or a hundred rounds. Now, that is the warmup. I used to be able to use one or two 50ct boxes of .22 in a year. Now, you need a brick for a day, and the most wanted calibers seem to be the ones used by the military. Between hoarding and increased consumption, its' amazing that there is any available for sale.
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