Are there any other cartridges??

[rwsmith]

OK, the .38 special started as a black powder cartridge. When smokeless was introduced there was a limit on the pressure due to it's BP heritage. It was still capable of some stout loading. The came the +Ps. Modern, well made and heavier built guns could take more more pressure (at least as far as factory ammo went, not the Saami standard) and gave you more bang for your buck. Then they downgraded the Saami specs and if that wasn't enough, over the years factory loads have gotten downright puny until now most believe that a +P today is a standard load of yesterday. Have any other cartridges been abused as much as the poor .38 special??

[WR Moore]

You need to do a search, this approximate question has been beaten beyond death.

One thing you're neglecting is the developent of the piezo-electric transducer pressure gauge which allows the charting of pressure vs time in precisely measured intervals. Given a better/more precise measuring method, some loads previously considered safe were found not so safe.

Also, the methods of measuring velocity changed. Today's velocities relate to the real world much better than many of those of yesteryear.

[rwsmith]

not a technical run down of test methods but whether or not any other cartridges have been downgraded like the .38.

[ArchAngelCD]

EVERY REVOLVER CARTRIDGE!

[hotrod150]

Maybe not what you're looking for but some other old cartridges which are typically underloaded due to (sme of) the guns that are chambered for them:
38 S&W
44 spl
44-40 (aka 44 WCF)
45 Colt
250 Savage
300 Savage
30-30
45-70
If used in a suitable firearm, these oldies can all be stoked up considerably from what the ammo companies produce.

[cp1969]

As ArchAngelCD said pretty much all cartridges, not just black powder, and includes semi-auto ammo like the 9mm. 9mm used to be hotter than it is now, too.

But things are not as dire as they seem. That added velocity didn't really do much other than flatten the trajectory a little. If an 1150 fps 9mm won't get the job done, neither will a 1300 fps 9mm.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by hotrod150

Maybe not what you're looking for but some other old cartridges which are typically underloaded due to (sme of) the guns that are chambered for them:
38 S&W
44 spl
44-40 (aka 44 WCF)
45 Colt
250 Savage
300 Savage
30-30
45-70
If used in a suitable firearm, these oldies can all be stoked up considerably from what the ammo companies produce.

I think the .257 Roberts is probably suitable for that list, and most domestically made 7X57mm Mauser. Hornady and maybe Remington (?) make a hotter 7mm load wih 139-140 grain bullets. It surely equals Rigby's 140 grain load for the 7mm, which they called the .275 Rigby.

[Engineer1911]

Besides better test equipment, product liability and broken guns have lead to downloading also.

[BigBill]

make a note of it we can't shoot the modern +P 38 special ammo in the older 38 special revolvers.

For a pistol in 9mm i been liking the 9mm largo because its still $149 for 1k rounds so far.

In my swede 6,5mm mauser and my chilean 7mm mauser i use the sellier & bellot ammo. The 6,5mm 131gr soft point S&B ammo is very accurate in my carl gustaf m96 1907 swede mauser. The chilean mausers were sighted in with the 173gr FMJ ammo at first. I have some S&B ammo in that weight too.

The 7mm mauser 7x57 is one of the flatest shooting rounds there is. Using a 125yd zero the bullets path from the muzzle out to 125yds varies between 1/2" to 3/4" the whole distance. The US copied the 30-06 round from the 7x57 round because of its accuracy. The 308win/308 nato round was copied from the 300 savage.

[Maximumbob54]

I've read that the ammo made for the Luger wasn't quite as powerful as it is today. No idea if that's interwebz nonsense or not though.

[Nevada Ed]

Why,yes there was a few others that were abused with reloading at the time they were introduced into the system.

As you stated the 38 started out as a black powder load......

This load also started out as a black powder load and it was the .36 Cal loading. Ever since its time the shooters were never happy with the basic loads and always wanted more....

More velosity, BIGGER bullets............
Can the brass stand these higher pressures?
Brass !! What Brass..............
I'm talking about .......... THE original .36 caliber,loads.

[rwsmith]

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. My dad has a break-open .38 s&w that I've shot factory ammo before, but I think it should be retired simply because it is break open even though it's a good gun. (Colt maybe?)

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by rwsmith

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. My dad has a break-open .38 s&w that I've shot factory ammo before, but I think it should be retired simply because it is break open even though it's a good gun. (Colt maybe?)

If that revolver is in good condition there's no reason to stop shooting it as long as you can find ammo. I shoot a revolver chambered in 38 S&W but I load for it.

[Alk8944]

Originally Posted by rwsmith

not a technical run down of test methods but whether or not any other cartridges have been downgraded like the .38.

His point was that it was the pressure testing method, which yielded somewhat different results that changed the way pressure is described. The actual pressure standard was not changed, the value of the measuring unit is what changed.

PSI Crusher = CUP This was the old standard.

PSIG = Absolute pressure. PSIG and PSI are not equivalent.

The standard for .38 Special actually changed from 15,000 CUP to 16,500 PSIG, these are equivalent for this cartridge.