I had to travel from the Mexican Border to the Midwest these past few days and I stopped in several stores along the way, e.g., Cabelas & Dick's in Ft Worth and a Sportsman's Warehouse in IA.

No 9mm, no .40 S&W, no .45 ACP & no .22 LR. Nary a ctg. The longer this continues the greater the panic has become for many. I asked employees in these stores and they said the same bunch of knuckleheads & their cronies show up daily with their minions looking to scarf up ammo. Most are reselling IMO. Don't believe me? Go look on Gunbroker.

The enemy is our fellow shooters who are hoarding to resell & not the Gov't. Is it gouging? Legally no, as ammo is not considered a necessity such as electricity, water, etc. I do know however that an era has passed and another one has begun.

tI was in Cabelas, Ft Worth yesterday around noon and hey had some ammo in some a couple of the calibers you mentioned.

Knuckleheads, cronies and minions, oh my!

I will have to disagree with fellow Texan photoman44 on one point. The story about Homeland security ordering I've forgotten how many billion rounds is pure bunk and has been proven wrong on other reputable sites. I admit I bought it at first also. With out going thru the whole story all DHS did was to put out a request for pricing that would include x number of rounds over the next few years. It's just like the futures market, they haven't bought a thing, they are just trying to lock in a price. That's just a good business practice. The other part of the story that was interesting was that the DHS quantity they were requesting pricing on was not large enough to affect the market based the many billions of rounds that are produced every year. Most of this info came from a published interview with an executive from Speer Bullets. Sorry I don't remember where it was but it's out there, maybe from a Handloader magazine article. These internet rumors really bug the s**t out of me. Please think before passing them on.

I had to go to Ft Worth again today so I left early enough to make sure my experiences weren't a fluke. Stopped at 2 Walmart stores and Cabelas. Maybe the minions slept in again!

W1 - 4 boxes of Federal 9MM, 223, and others
Cabelas - 9, 40, 45, 223, ... and PLENTY of it. UNFORTUNATELY, their prices have gone way up (see pics, other side of shelf is all 223, whole top shelf cut off was PMC 9MM, also had 4 cases on adjoining shelf, the WWB 40 is JHP)
W2 - .45 Personal defense, 223, and the usual other rifle rounds they've had.

This was between 12 and 1. So much for the minions.

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Time for a different point of view. We've had posters coming back with the same old worn out idea for a full 6 months now. No, we're not buying too much ammo. There isn't too much to buy. Its not in the guys who go shooting buying up too much. Most can't afford to stockpile that kind of quantity. We have a free market system here in the US. You can't tell me they can't get supplies. The local copper thieves are going strong as ever and selling it to the scrap dealers. There's still lead for sale, and the powder is still being produced.

The problem lies right in the lap of the ammo makers. They've been in a full production mode for 6 full months and haven't done a thing to solve the problem. I may listen to their complaints that they don't want to increase capacity because they don't want to be stuck with it if the shortage ends. But that doesn't remove the onus from them. They aren' t producing enough. They know they could double or triple production just by investing in more capacity. And they aren't doing it.

The homeland security ruse is just garbage for a lot of reasons. The worst of the shortage is taking place on 22 long rifle production. Those production machines aren't suitable for producing even a single round of .40 cal ammo. Anyone who has ever loaded a single round knows the process is different. The priming isn't the same animal, nor are the bullets. 22 cal ammo has its very own production line. There just aren't enough of them. The government contracts aren't high profit. Its just a baseline that exceeds cost. Mostly the contract is for more than the government will even purchase. They have big eyes and can take up to the contract amount. But the ammo firms don't guarantee they can fill the contract on a moments notice.

Place the blame right back where it belongs. On CCI, Remington, Winchester, and Federal. Those are the companies that won't expand production to meet the demand.

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Dick Burg

I respectfully disagree 100%. How is it that BEFORE Sandy Hook they were producing enough then? The ammo cos. are in business for one reason: to make a profit. Their fear, and rightfully so, is that this Panic will end and they will be stuck holding the bag and who wants to be a "feast or famine" co. like say Boeing, e.g., hiring thousands only to lay them off six months later? Federal laid off approx. 90 employees in August of 2008 as sales were down as evidence of this. Remington is expanding, however they are owned by Cerberus which is a huge holding co. with billions in holdings. If ammunition production was such a lucrative business then ask yourself why Wall Street entrepreneurs have not jumped on it and opening ammo cos. in every state?


Place blame where it belongs: greedy gunowners/shooters who have panicked like a bunch of lemmings.

You had the ammo Company part right but the blame is with the politicians and those idiots they pander to for support without rational thought. Many of the same entitled attitudes are seen within those complaining that getting ammo is not fair.

A classic example of what happens to commodities when the government sticks their nose into economic affairs creating fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Since photographic evidence debunks your original post at one of two stores mentioned, it would seem to me that the "shortage" may be part myth as well.

I got into a major tussle with a feller a few months ago because he was singing the blues about "no ammo, no ammo". I provided evidence of plenty of ammunition not a half hour from his house and he responded: "Well, I got no time to traipse around the state looking for ammo. It should be available at the same store I always shop."

In another case, a guy cried "Wolf" and since he posted his city, I Googled "Gun Stores and ranges within 10 miles of Anytown" and actually called the first store I found. They had his caliber in stock at $2 more than pre-panic prices. I told him and he said: "Yeah but you have to shoot it at their range and besides I'm a college student with a pregnant wife. I can't afford ammo right now."

Three cases cited above. The above three cases proven beyond a shadow of doubt to be partially or completely fabricated.

Greedy gun owners and shooters along with their knuckleheads, cronies and minions - or whiners who like to make up colorful nicknames?

You decide...

rburg, I appreciate your insight and you may be right. However (there is always a "however"), if I were Federal CCI I would wait until this nonsense about registering ammunition or being required to pass a background check to purchase ammunition or having to laser engrave serial numbers on ammunition or any other number of idiotic things The Hill is thinking up stops before I make any kind of a move.

Federal CCI (and all of the others) are running at full capacity, providing full employment and making maximum profits right now. I don't think they're in a hurry to make any changes until the dust settles.

But it's just my opinion and I could be full of hooey!

Guns are cheap.

Shooting is expensive.

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Really. I guess it couldn't be the several million new gun owners that are now part of the demand curve. Nah that would be using common sense. Can't be that.

You are right about a new era. Its the era of the "cry me a river of tears 'cause I ain't got no ammo" gun owner. An era of Mommy, Mommy that person has ammo and I don't. I want ammo, I want ammo (insert standard 2 year old fit). Its a wonder there is not a shortage of Kleenex with all of the crying thats been going on about ammo these days.

You want ammo these days then you have to put a little effort an time in to find it or pony up he cash. The era of cheap ammo is over. If you are sitting on thd sidelines waiting for ammo to come down you are going to be waiting a very long time. If I'm wrong all I have to do is buy more ammo to dollar cost average my cost per round down to the new prices. If I'm right and you're not buying ammo then its really going to hit your wallet real hard.

I bought as much ammo as I could for Y2K, stored it in ammo cans and sat on it. As finances allowed, I bought more to have and to shoot over the years, so my supply built up slowly.
I now have enough for a safety net and buy new (cheap as I can find) ammo to shoot off. If I shoot 200 rounds, I buy 200 rounds to replace it. The AR is killing me, 200 rounds is nothing to throw downrange in an afternoon. It's now expensive to feed, but it's big boy rules-no sniveling.
I think prices will drop when there's a glut, but the next "incident" the Left focuses on will drive prices up again.

Anyone ever heard of the CMP? Got a very large shipment of 22's today. Ordered these back in Feb, so 4 months, but well worth it. Have a few more orders in the pipeline. I think I'm on some watchlist

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Sure you did

I'm not sure if I believe anything any of you are saying because I don't think anyone really knows the truth. None of this makes any sense. There are more gun owner right now then ever before in the history of the world, and there are more being added every day. That is the only clue that has any truth in it. It doesn't matter what anyone tells you it's the truth that matters. Unlike our president some one know the truth. Only the shadow knows an he ain't talkin.

Being loyal to the unnamed local gun shop, whenever I came in, I was offered a few boxes of whatever ammo or shells that I wanted at "pre-shortage" prices. I did see silly prices at gun shows, but if they can get people to buy at those prices, who am I to complain. I saw a lot of empty shelves at Wal-Mart and Academy, but shrugged and went to the local store.

Hardly so. Visit those stores hours later and all is gone. Yes, they are receiving shipments more regularly, but when they do the common ammo in demand, e.g., 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, etc., is gone within an hour or so as everyone calls their buddies on their cells. This happened to me in a Scheel's store today in the Midwest. The employee said they got in a huge shipment of 9mm in the AM and all was gone within one hour. I'd wager that many here see the same weekly if not daily in their respective states. The Mgr. at the Cabela's told me the same last week in Ft. Worth as did the person at Dick's. I see no reason for them to lie about this.

FWIW, all the new gun owners/shooters I saw last Spring at the range have long since gone for whatever reason, most likely they hated searching for ammo like the holy Grail. As well, I think many were merely "Fair Weather" Christian types who merely wanted a gun with little intent on shooting much.

I was one of the unfortunate people that purchased ammo from an online vendor at a HIGH price. 250 9mm 124 grain FMC for almost $300 and they turned out to be reloads, which they all have fired thus far, but still, reloads are normally cheaper than normal loads. I was in the process of getting my CWP and I felt like I needed to practice before my shooting qualification. My range was so short on ammo that they had to SPLIT boxes in half and limit one split a customer per day. 25 rounds is not much practice so I had to look elsewhere. Called everywhere within 40 miles of me and they were all sold out. Last resort: go online. Cabelas had a bulk 1200 round I could order for $600 at the time but I could not justify spending that kind of money at the time. Only other place that was "reasonably" priced was BulkAmmo and even they pretty much asked for my first born son as payment. Now that I have completed the exam, I will never purchase ammo from someone that marks up their prices that much. I remember when I first started shooting and expensive ammo, for 9mm) was $25, $0.50 a round, per box. Now, I am lucky to find a box of ammo for that price.

It seems that the ammo shortage is starting to come to a halt but it is not slowing down quickly. Places like Academy Sports and Dick's have people lined up at their door at 7AM just to see if they got ammo in for that day. The writer is 100% correct; the ammo shortage will stop when everyone stops buying ammo just to hoard it and then goes the next day to buy more.

Anyways, thanks for the article, I really enjoyed reading it.

Please define hordeing ammo.

My definition is someone who buys ammo and stores it with no plan to use or sale it. The people I've met waiting in line for ammo are all shooters and/or dealers. Everyone hopeing to pick up a box of ammo. A box being all that is allowed to be purchased on a daily basis. One box per caliber with a 3 caliber max per person per day. You can't horde ammo under those conditions unless you've been doing it for 30 years.

Be honest. You are upset because its not as easy to buy ammo as it was last year. Understandable but why attack fellow shooters. Why? Why call them names? Why?

If you don't have ammo its your fault and yours alone. Its there. All the ammo you could ever use is available every day on Gunbroker. All you have to do is pony up the cash and its on the way to your door. Don't want to pay those high prices then join me at 6am in line at the local Academy or other sport store in hopes that the ammo you want is there and still cheap enough to purchase. All the finger pointing,crying and name calling will not change a thing.

I think ladyT makes our point exactly (and may well be one of the sellers on GB) in that the people you see in line at 6:00 am aren't there so they can go to the range later that day.(and who doesn't get up at 5:00 am so they can get to the range early) The people you are in line with are probably there several days a week so they can resell it for 3 to 4 times what they paid for it on GB or the next local gun show. Its my fault that I don't want to join you at 6:00 am? I don't get it and yes I call you names. What are you going to do if the stores change their policies and start selling at a different time everyday? Maybe 10:00 am or 5:00 pm, what are you going to do then, go check out the camping gear for the rest of the day? And for the record, I don't care what you do. Except for an occasional brick of 22 I reload everything I shoot and buy from reputable on line dealers who have not jacked up their prices. So you all just enjoy watching the sunrise at Walmart, it's such a lovely place.

This was around 10AM today at a random Walmart and Cabelas. As in my previous posts, four out of five days running the ammo is there WELL past 7AM. You just need to find it. No lines, no hoarders, and I've yet to find the elusive minion.

And NO, I'm not going to go online and tell the lazy *** where the ammo is. If you want it, work for it or have friends. I'm fortunate that my job "travels me" around the metroplex!

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and cabelas, and my namesake!

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Cannot believe S&W would manufacture and sell a revolver that caused difficulties for a long time product faithful customer like myself. Can I purchase a cylinder in 22 mag as a replacement for the Jet mag cylinder. I know they were available when I purchased my Jet. Futhermore the orginal bo


x had an empty slot for another cylinder. I still have the box!

First off, I hope you're not letting that dog smoke. Way too cute.
Another part of your post kind of sums everything up. "If you want it, work for it or have friends" That's what so aggravating and has everyone so pissed off, it shouldn't be this way. Whether its shooters or profiteers or dealers or manufacturers I don't know. It reminds me of the gas shortages and long lines back in the 80s or the rationing that went on during WW II. (I've just read about that) It just doesn't make sense.

Nope, her name is Smoki! She can't decide if she's from the brown part of the litter or the black part AND Mrs. smokindog's maiden is Robinson!!!!

Work is a relative term!!!! I meant, come out of the basement, quit whining, and experience a world were you don't get everything you want instantly and it's NOT someone's fault other than yours! It seems to be a lost thing anymore. Hell, I remember when stores closed at 5PM on Friday and didn't reopen until Monday, banks closed at 2PM, not every store carried every brand, I played outside from after school until the street lights came on and didn't need a smartphone ... I kind of preferred it

Of course I get up early to go to the range. An example is today. Get up early, check on ammo then head out to the range. One wants to get their shooting done before 11am since its going to be 107+ today. Our hot desert sun is rough on a person. As far as gunbroker goes I don't use them. I like doing business face to face as I'm particular about who I do business with if and when I do.

As far as those waiting in line, hey, thats what you have to do to get ammo at a somewhat reasonable price these days. One thing that you and others miss out on is all of the new friends one can make waiting in line. I've made connections with a large number of people I wouldn't have met if it wasn't for this ammo shortage. I even added a 4 inch 586 as a result of waiting in line to the collection.

As far as shop owners also buying ammo one has to understand these folks are trying go keep the doors of their business open. If you don't realize it these small shops are just one step above he individual and like us they are at the bottom of the distributon channel when it comes to ammo. I for one won't complain about their efforts to keep their business going. Of course the crybabies and whiners will complain about it and point fingers and call people names.


There are a few things I'd like to say but it would get me banned. I am though tired of this self righteous indignation some have toward those of us who have managed to find ammo in this crises. But I guess the crybabies wll continue to throw fits while the Adults will just handle the problem before them.

Anyone needing ammo in central Ohio Columbus, Mansfield, Shelby, Ashland, Newark, Heath or Hebron only needs to drive 10 minutes to find any center fire ammo they need at reasonable prices. Anyone in the entire state is no more than two hours away from ammo. But you won't find at your All-Mighty WalMart. Vances Buckeye Outdoors Fin Feather and Fir and the Sportsmans Den - Every Day All Day. There's not one Buckeye who gets an ounce of sympathy from me.

I see this is your first post on the forum, so Welcome... but, this really needs to be in a new thread. We're talking apples and oranges when it come to ammo availability for the .22 Jet, its shortage has nothing to do with the current ammo availability climate.

The M53 has been out of production for 38 years, and Remington stopped making loaded ammo in 1990.

With that said, I'm amazed that the availability of new unprimed .22 Jet brass even still exists, and like the .41 Magnum, reloading is about only reliable way of ensuring yourself ammo. Do an Internet search on ".22 Jet Brass" and a few places show up with Prvi and Remington ,22 Jet brass in stock.

I have a M53, so I know of the challenges that it takes to keep them feed.

Regarding your question about getting a .22 Mag cylinder, nope, cannot fire .22 Mag from a M53. The .22 Jet bullet is .222" diameter, the .22 Mag is a larger .224" diameter.

The auxillary cylinders for the M53 are .22LR. Hamilton Bowen is now making his own cylinders, I think he can fix you up with a .22LR cylinder... but unfortunately that won't make ammo availability much better for your gun.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Time after time, board after board I hear the same thing! "It's not fair"!

Well guess what, you're right! It isn't fair. But that's life. No one is responsible for you having ammo other than you!

You have to make getting ammo a priority, you have to be willing to sacrifice for it, and you have to put in some work. If you don't, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

I decided after the last scare that I wouldn't be caught short again. I made acquiring a cache a priority. I stepped away from another long time hobby and liquidated all of equipment I had for it to put toward my cache.

I have sacrificed time and sleep waiting in line for ammo. It's one of the only ways to get ammo in this market without resorting to the secondary market and the crazy prices. I will continue to stand in line and continue to add to my cache so that I can continue to shoot and to be even better prepared for the next scare.

So can we stop w/ the accusations from those unwilling or unable to wait in line that everyone that does is a flipper or a hoarder, they are incorrect.

Most of the people I have meet are just regular people looking for ammo. I'm made a couple new friends, made contacts that have helped me find new firearms and ammo. That doesn't mean that flippers aren't doing it, but they are not the majority as some would have you believe.

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Molon Labe!

For whatever reason the current price of ammo is too low to efficiently rationed. Rather than price, ammo is being rationed on the basis of willingness/ability to search for the stuff. This is not efficient.

Also, the flippers can only flip is the difference is the price they pay is sufficiently lower than the price for which they can sell. If the manufactures or retailers would raise price to diminish this difference flipping wouldn't work.

I have no idea what price would ration ammo more efficiently, but my Walmarts (2) might be able to keep 22 lr on the shelf for more than 10 minutes if it raised the price to $45-$50 a brick. Markets work more efficiently when price adjusts to equate what buyers are willing to pay with what sellers are willing to sell.

Ummm, price controls have never worked. Supply is available at differing prices points. I'd say the market is working. Value is not just cost. Obviously it's not worth it to some to go find the supply at the lower cost available. Therefore, those people are limited to, nay creating, the secondary market with a higher price and more convenience. This is pure economics in action. If it will make you feel better, I'm sure there are many on this forum that will sell you the brick of 22 for $50. Oh wait, THAT is what people are complaining about. Stop payng $50 and the secondary market will dry up. HOWEVER, as has been properly pointed out, I've seen more "users" than "sellers" out in the primary market. May the circle go unbroken, by and by .......

.

Smokingun,
The economics suggests the market price is too low. Whenever the price consumers are willing to pay exceeds the price sellers are willing to sell, an efficient market corrects this by increasing price. Consumers bid the price up like in an auction. Problem here is that prices aren't rising, or at least not by as much as necessary to clear the market efficiently.

I'm not suggesting any type of price control. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the market is currently operating as if there was a price ceiling on ammo. Demand has increased relative to supply. A market adjusts to this by raising price, at least in the short run or when supply is not perfectly elastic.

For an economist, the puzzle here is why price hasn't risen enough to clear the market. A reasonable explanation might be that manufacturers or retailers don't believe the excess demand will remain over time and they don't want to alienate consumers by raising price in the short run. They'd rather allow the shortage to persist than to raise price and be accused of price gouging.

This is similar to what happens at events like the super bowl. Every year far more people are willing to pay the official price of a ticket than there are are tickets available. Scalpers make alot by buying at the official price and selling to people willing to pay more than the official price. It's a bit puzzling as to why the NFL doesn't raise price to clear the market efficiently. Perhaps, it worries that the price be perceived as obscene.

Like I said, the market is working perfectly. I AGAIN (5 days out of 6) found PLENTY of the popular rounds in stock, on the shelf, and at a reasonable price today. Post 10AM, no mobs, no minions.

If someone is unwilling to step out and purchase it, then they pay what you call scalpers' prices and create a secondary market. That's fine but don't complain because that's what the consumer is demanding. I know of plenty of folks that way over payed for event tickets because they were too lazy to go look for other sources. Convenience is a component of price.

This is classic economics at its finest. Don't try to be the government and try to fix what isn't broken.

There is merit to this scenario. Living in Columbus everything revolves around the big Ag college on High Street. Folks got to complaining about the unscrupulous scalpers (and their minions) charging such ridiculous prices for Ohio State football tickets. The university vowed to do something about it and they did.

They now upped the charge at face value to what the scalpers got on the street in years past. Voila! The secondary market has been foiled.

I'm not suggesting the govt get involved in any way. My point is that a market normally adjusts to shortages (excess demand) by raising price. The gov doesn't do this. The competitive market does it. It's old Adam Smith's invisible hand principle.

Higher prices reduce incentives to consume and increase incentives to produce. At some point prices adjust to equate what consumers are willing to buy with what producers are willing to sell. No more shortage. No govt. involved in this at all. This is simply Econ 101.

And if the free market hasn't done this, it means it doesn't need to be done!

You may be right about that. My guess is that if this excess demand condition persists manufacturers and those retailers who can't maintain inventory will eventually raise price.

I'm not saying I'd like to see price increases. It's just what basic economics would predict. However, something apparently isn't accounted for.

Basic economics assumes the sellers are profit maximizers. If Walmart can sell 100 boxes of bullets for $30 each but is selling them for $15 then it's forgoing profits. The Walmarts around here could certainly sell all the ammo they receive at prices higher than they are charging. It's not clear as to why Walmart, and other sellers that have tried to maintain prices closer to previous levels than others, have not raised price.

One explanation as to why they be willing to forgo these profits is that they perceive them to be short run and they don't want to alienate consumers in the interests of profits over the long run. There are also other reasonable explanations but this one makes more sense to me. Maybe they're using ammo like a business uses a loss leader to attract people to the store hoping they'll buy other items. I don't know.

I think you have delusions of grandeur.

Can I go to where you went to learn everything about everything.
(even if most is wrong)

Not to mention the MILLIONS in costs to buy more machinery, which may not even be in place when you need it.

Don't waste your breath...

some people know everything about everything. Best to let it be.

Hodgin, while reading your (well thought) post, the "Loss Leader" explanation did enter my mind. I distinctly remember prior to 12/12 that WalMart was generally considered to be the Devil's right-hand man! Now a segment of the population is visiting, (sometimes several locations) on a daily basis in search for the elusive 22 LR? AND they have the ability to track this traffic with the "In Stock" app?? They gotta absolutely love that!

There are serious barriers to overcome to enter the market at the level of a Federal or Remington in the production of ammuntion. What has been occuring is adfitional smaller (micro sized) ammo production coming online. A bussiness model similar to that of the micro brewery. This development is the result of increased demand from new members to the shooting sports along with the increased demand in light of political actions to limit Second Amendment Rights. Just as a heads up those anti gun states are looking at adding higher taxes on the sale of ammo and other restrictions such as purchase limits. These actions will only inflame the shortage just as it begans to ease somewhat.

"All we need is another mass shooting or terrorist attack and there will be more talk of gun and ammo controls, which will bring on another round of panic buying, longer waits, higher prices and more shortages. "

well its hard to have more shortages unless you have something on the shelf in the first place in order to run out of it.

all ammo is still being sold out of the brown boxes because it doesn't last long enough to be put on the shelf. you have to be the lucky lotto winner to be standing at the desk when the ammo arrives because its always delivered as only 500-1000 rounds per caliber.

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M&P FS 9mm

Very informative, it is a shame that ammo costs as much as it does now...i have found a few deals on ammo but only because i am a "VIP" on budsgunshop.com and still not much cheaper, just first access to certain things.