Hello! Last night I stumbled upon this:

https://www.precisionriflesupply.com...-Olin-38spe130

.......

It appears Precision Rifle Supply is selling some military (I assume military) M41 .38 special, 130 grain FMJ ball ammo. I am somewhat familiar with this load. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was a lightly-loaded cartridge designed for use with the old Smith and Colt "aircrewman" totally aluminum alloy revolvers issued to USAF pilots back in the 50s-70s time frame (not sure exact dates). They were loaded light to keep from damaging the weak aluminum construction of these guns but the revolvers broke down anyway, and almost all were recalled and destroyed. I may very well be off on my facts here btw.

But, I haven't seen this stuff for sale ever. I bought 4 boxes as I think it's very interesting, I'm active duty Air Force and also love military history so I plan on keeping 3 boxes for collectors interest and testing the other box through a chronograph and off a bench for velocity/accuracy from my Model 37 airweight (1 7/8" bbl) and Ruger GP100 (6" bbl). Does anybody know anything about this load or have used it personally, seen it around, or tested it? Judging by the lot number is the date of manufacture determinable?

I just though you guys might want to see this. 4 more boxes left on the website as of this posting. I think it is pretty neat!

The M41 ammo was used by many different military personnel, not just for Airmen.

Date of mfg of the ammo pictured is 1983.

Thanks! Is it unusual to find this stuff for sale anymore? I assume it isn't still being made?

I have used some of the military .38 FMJ 130gn in the past. I used it for plinking and some limited range use. I could never get it to group tightly but it was always reliable. I never chronied it or did any formal tests on it. I found the brass to be real good stuff.

I just used some of this type of ammo last weekend. We had a BUG match after our regular IDPA shoot. Winchester White Box 130 gr FMJ in my S&W Model 442. This type of ammo had been routinely available at gun stores and Wal-Mart until the current frenzy made everything hard to find.

As an item of interest, this ammo generally would not make minimum power factor in IDPA so they declared this factory load to be accepted.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

The original military M41 by Olin and Remington is still fairly common. I see it being sold on websites quite often.

The 38S 130 FMJ can still be had by Winchester, Federal, Remington and PMC (132gr). Other companies have 125FMJ's, some RN profile and others with a flat meplat.

Nice. So this is military surplus more or less? Are these boxes what the military was issued? Thank you so!

I think I still have a fair quantity of this in the ammo locker, about 500-rounds give or take.

Of interest, all but two of the boxes had the lot numbers ripped off of the box. Perhaps that has something to do with declaring it surplus.

Its been a long time, but if I remember right, our ammo came in drab olive green boxes with the standard GI markings but there might have been white boxes from Rem or Winchester.
Most was in a 50 cal. ammo box or wooden crates when we got it, when I was in the Navy.

Maybe someone has a few of the old ammo boxes and can post a picture but the M41 was a Ball FMJ design designed for the 4 & 6" revolvers and was later "Beefed up" with higher velocities for the guards and shore patrol, that complained about how weak this load was, after the war was over.
That 1980 ammo could well be the higher velocity ammo.......

All the M41 I've ever had was wimpy stuff, even the ones loaded in the '80s. Not very powerful, not very accurate, but like Mike in FL, I found the brass to be first-rate ! I'm still shooting a lot of it, having loaded them 2-5 times each, maybe more.
Bottom line - nearly useless ammo, great brass!

Larry

This ammo is relatively common and still cataloged by Winchester, and others. I never cared for it much because it's kind of betwixt and between. Not great target ammo because it will not shoot to POA in most fixed sight revolvers and certainly not good self defense ammo, so other than just plinking for nostalgia it's kind of obsolete. It does however make a neat display or collectible for Military buffs especially in the Military marked boxes.

Jay,

The answer to your M41 chrono'ed velocity question is around 825-850 fps depending on the ususal variables (w/late 60's RA and WCC @10', M337 and M19).

Keep 'em flying!

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Good shooting.

Thanks! What were the barrel lengths for those guns?

I have fired and chronographed M41 .38 Special. In my S&W K-38 (6" barrel) the average MV was 778 ft/sec (SD = 25). In my Python (also 6") I got 867 ft/sec (SD=22). Quite a difference, which I cannot explain (possibly the longer chamber of the Python). But that's what I got.

The 337 is a 1 7/8", the 19 is a 6".

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Good shooting.

I acquired some M41 back during the '70s when I was in the Navy. I just looked through my chrono spreadsheet to see if I had any data on it. I shot some back in 2008 that clocked 795 FPS out of my 4" Ruger Security Six. Haven't tried it in anything else.

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Stu

Yes, the M41 ammunition is still fairly commonplace. It has been manufactured by Olin, Remington, Valcartier Industries, IMI, and Federal. During the Viet Nam war the military even purchased M41 reloads for use in the CONUS only as training ammo.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

There have been several different loads of the 38 Special FMJ that has been issued to military and security personnel who were issued the 38 Spl revolver. In addition to the standard M41 130FMJ, there was the high pressure PGU-12/B 130FMJ and even a 158FMJ load.

Yep!

I happen to have 6 boxes of this in an ammo can which I'll never use.

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[QUOTE=crdiaz73;139572585]I happen to have 6 boxes of this in an ammo can which I'll never use.

Why not, I shot a box and a half out in the country on Monday. Ain't +P but not wadcutter level either. Welcome and thanks for not reviving a 10y/o thread. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Well I guess it would give me a reason to buy a .38 and hide another gun from the wife, lol

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I chronographed no more than a few rounds of this ammo some years ago. Muzzle velocity was only around 750 fps, but I don't recall whether I used a 4"- or 6"-barreled revolver. Regardless, pretty lightly loaded. I didn't have enough cartridges to shoot groups with.

One afternoon, my little group had the range to ourselves. We had finished shooting and had all cleared our handguns and were yacking about the day's shooting as we packed our gear. Tim, the joker of the bunch, had brought several boxes of this ammo along, Remington brand if I remember. We had all shot some and commented on how whimpy it felt. We regretted not having brought a chronograph.

Tim suddenly said, "Watch this." He drew his PPC revolver, opened the cylinder, pulled one of the 130 grain cartridges from his pocket, showed it to us and then chambered it and closed the cylinder. He pointed it up and pulled the trigger, firing the round. He looked up and began to walk backwards downrange, keeping his eyes on the sky. He holstered his gun. Then, he slapped his hands together, like he was catching a fly ball or an insect. Then, facing us, he opened his hands and picked one of the 130 grain FMJ bullets from the other hand and held it up for us all to see.

We were baffled for just a second. He said, "Twarn't nuttin. When I was still in the army, I could run downrange fast enough to catch them before they hit the paper target."

He had picked up and pocketed 6 or 8 of the spent bullets from the dirt backstop behind the 25 yard targets earlier. They usually just laid on the top of the dirt, not having enough energy to bury themselves. The had rifling marked on them but I bet you could have tumbled, reloaded and shot them again.

I haven't shot the surplus .38 yet, but .38SPC. is my favorite round. I usually load my own but the surplus stuff would be welcome here.... Thanks for sparking an interest in something new to me....

An old, old thread, but there were in fact two different M41 loads (don't ask me why the designation wasn't changed). A low pressure M41 load was used in the USAF revolvers having the alloy frame and cylinder. The higher pressure M41 had essentially normal .38 Special ballistics. The USAF PGU-12/B .38 Special is a different animal. MV specs are 1100-1175 ft/sec with a 130 grain FMJ bullet, much the same as the present standard M882 9mm ball round. The peak chamber pressure is around 20Kpsi, a little beyond +P.