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08-05-2013, 01:50 PM
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RAPID FIRE DANGEROUS?
This is kind of a bad ammo de-rail, so please bear with me. we all hear them at the range. people emptying their mags as fast as humanly possible. Impressive?, maybe if they could hit the broad side of a barn at 10 yards. we all kinda want to shoot accurately faster, BUT I want to be able to detect a squib load and be able to stop myself before sending another round into a blocked barrel, how about you? thoughts?
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08-05-2013, 02:07 PM
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If the fire is so rapid that control is lost then the fire is more dangerous than deliberate controlled fire. The range I go to these days does not allow rapid fire. If they think you are not in control of your shots they will ask you to load a single round at a time.
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08-05-2013, 02:22 PM
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I dont worry too much about squibs. I shoot fast but controlled as opposed to "machine gun" like fast. While squibs do happen its like winning the lottery....someone will win but my chances are slim to none
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08-05-2013, 03:18 PM
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With factory ammo, probably. Reloads--well, mistakes occur.
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08-05-2013, 04:45 PM
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Jerry Miculek must not worry about squibs.
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08-05-2013, 05:12 PM
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I had a squib with a reload in 1989. Learned to be more careful. Seems to have worked. I shoot as fast or as slow as I like. Not a problem. Never had a squib with factory ammo. Started shooting in 1956.
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08-05-2013, 05:28 PM
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I've had 2 squibs over the years, both were factory ammo, I make all my own and haven't had the problem. One thing about a squib and rapid fire, in an auto pistol, normally the primer doesn't have enough power to cycle the action or send the bullet very far into the barrel. Both squibs were a failure to eject and then when I racked the slide, then next round wouldn't chamber. (I still carry a dowel rod in my range bag "just in case"). I've seen some crummy factory ammo lately, like the primer being inserted backwards. The guy next to me kept putting it back in the mag and tried to fire it a number of times until I looked at it and showed how it was different from the other ammo in the box.
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08-05-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
BUT I want to be able to detect a squib load and be able to stop myself before sending another round into a blocked barrel, how about you? thoughts?
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ROs and SOs get to see a lot of squibs over the years, and one thing you should know shooting fast or slow: WHEN IT GOES POP, STOP!
A squib will not feed the next round, so unless you are dumb enough to rack the slide yourself and fire the next shot into the blocked barrel, you can just unload the gun, clear the barrel (may require driving the bullet out with a rod) and then go back to shooting.
One fellow at our club has blown up 3 guns in competition, with the ROs screaming at him to STOP! Nosir, he just racks the slide and fires the next shot into the blocked barrel!! It's up to you, the shooter.
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08-05-2013, 06:14 PM
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To the OP: Controlled rapid fire is not dangerous, except to the target. 30% +/- of my shooting is "rapid" with various weapons moving from target to target. I do not worry about a squib load anymore than I worry about a loaded logging truck crossing the center lane. I am aware that it could happen but I am not going to stop driving nor training. Be Safe,
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08-05-2013, 06:15 PM
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Some years ago I bought a box of .38 LWC from a local "Ammunition Recycler". Every cylinderfull had at least one squib round. I spent more time punching than shooting. Although his ammo was ****** he made some darn good cast and plated bullets. We lost a good source when he went belly up.
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08-05-2013, 06:26 PM
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If Jerry Miculek uses his own handloads when he shoots at high speed I guess he trusts his work!
***GRJ***
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08-05-2013, 07:07 PM
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squibs
I've had 1 true squib that blocked a bbl and it was a handload in a bolt rifle I believe and it would have been easy to send another round. many, many factory 22's that either never fired or had to be hit more than once. both factory and reloads in centerfire pistols & revolvers that had to be hit more than once. I'll bet that in all the million or more rounds Miclek has fired, odds are he's had a few. if you get a squib in a semi I HOPE you get a fte/ftf. in a revolver if you're not paying attention, I could see a problem. I can understand why some parachutists pack their own.
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08-05-2013, 09:00 PM
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08-05-2013, 09:11 PM
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I go with kwselke on this
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwselke
If the fire is so rapid that control is lost then the fire is more dangerous than deliberate controlled fire. The range I go to these days does not allow rapid fire. If they think you are not in control of your shots they will ask you to load a single round at a time.
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Rapid fire WITH CONTROL is an essential part of self defense shooting. Spraying rounds will most likely hit something besides the target. I don't indulge too much with my guns because shooting behind a squib would take the fun out of it real quick. Besides, nowadays I don't just 'shoot up' ammo, it's too hard to come by.
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08-05-2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
in a revolver if you're not paying attention, I could see a problem
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No guarantee, but every revolver squib I've seen locked the gun. Nothing happens until the bullet is driven back out of the cylinder gap into the cylinder so the revolver can be opened. Nothing the shooter can do will make it fire.
I point the gun away, reach forward and slip a rod down the barrel, and then tap the rod against a post until the bullet is back in the cylinder. The one in the barrel was a squib, but there are usually loaded cartridges in the other chamber(s), and you don't want to get in front of the gun.
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08-05-2013, 09:22 PM
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Saw a guy at the range doing the spray and pray deal as fast as he could with a springs and plastic semi-auto have squib not clear the barrel before the next round came down the tube. It actually "exploded" in his hand, cuts all over his hands,arm and face, lucky nothing in the eyes. Plastic springs and bits on metal flew every where. Barrel looked like a tulip.
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08-05-2013, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05
No guarantee, but every revolver squib I've seen locked the gun. Nothing happens until the bullet is driven back out of the cylinder gap into the cylinder so the revolver can be opened. Nothing the shooter can do will make it fire.
I point the gun away, reach forward and slip a rod down the barrel, and then tap the rod against a post until the bullet is back in the cylinder. The one in the barrel was a squib, but there are usually loaded cartridges in the other chamber(s), and you don't want to get in front of the gun.
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Well I had one counter example.
I did some too-light hand loads with H110 for a 454 Casull.
The small rifle magnum primer blew the bullet about 2 inches into the barrel. No lock up or anything.
Of course, rapid fire with a 454 Casull Freedom Arms single action isn't on the agenda.
I took the gun home and pushed the bullet out with a dowel.
Dave
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08-05-2013, 11:26 PM
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Can't be too careful. Bought a 500 rd bulk box of .38 range ammo 3 years ago from a local loader in the NW. Beautiful looking, brand new Fed +P cases, jacketed flat nose bullets. Knew I had problems when bullets keyholed at 7 yds, going sideways thru target. Two rounds mis- or hang-fired, leaving the bullet protruding from the muzzle of my 4" revolver... Range personnel knocked them back down and out, but were concerned I was using unsafe ammo. Will never use that brand again. Can't be too careful.
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08-06-2013, 05:38 PM
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If you've ever shot a cowboy action match you'll see some very rapid fire with single action handguns and rifles. Every once in a while you'll hear a pop from a squib load and the RO and the spotters will all scream STOP!!!!!!. I've never seen anyone's gun blow up thanks to that. I have seen a squib load pop out the front end, though, the STOP scream still happens but then everyone who has seen the round come out says something and we move on.
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08-06-2013, 06:31 PM
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Those that claim a squib will not cycle a pistol are dead wrong, at least in the case of a 1911.
I have a bulged Gold Cup barrel on my desk to prove it.
It was during the rapid fire stage of a Bullseye match. After my 4th shot the gun jammed solid. The bulged barrel happened about 1" from the end of the barrel and locked up the barrel bushing.
This was not a primer only squib. there had to be some powder involved for the bullet to make it that far down the barrel.
I assure you the slide cycled and the next round fed causing the bulge.
You can't be too careful. I was concentrating so hard I didn't notice anything was wrong until the jam. With 20 other competitors you don't notice the sound of your own gun that much and recoil felt normal.
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