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  #1  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:47 AM
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Default Teach me about the .380 caliber

Being "new" to this caliber with a brand new firearm, I'd like to know what everyone likes to carry in a smaller framed (pocket) 380 for self defense, specifically a Ruger LCP.

I have heard that both hollow points and FMJ rounds can be utilized. What are the pro's and cons of both in the .380cal along with your preference?

DR
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:04 PM
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My preference is no 380. For 380a fmj has better penetration over the hp

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Old 08-22-2013, 12:19 PM
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Literally millions of opinions out there (and here), but only you have to live with your choice.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:25 PM
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We've definitely discussed this here before in great detail. I'd hate to bore anyone by repeating what I said then . . .
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:31 PM
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I think they are suggesting do a search in the forum. Also, Google is your friend.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:32 PM
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Hi Erich.

I like the information this guy puts out on 380. Just facts and you can make your own choices from there. Pocket Guns and Gear: Ammo Tests
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:39 PM
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At less than 10 oz. (empty), the Kel-Tec 3AT/Ruger LCP, with it's long DA trigger pull, might be the safest and best back-up piece ever. It can be dropped into a boot top, hidden inside a ballistic vest, etc... Definitely a good piece for if an officer gets physically over-powered by a suspect and his primary weapon taken from him, just pull and shoot. That said, that is probably the only practical use for that weapon and caliber.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:00 PM
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LAPD approved the LCP for back up and off duty carry only when loaded with Hornady Critical Defense.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:36 PM
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Hi Ljutic,

Good site: that Bruce is a great guy.

Here are some recent threads on the subject, chock full of .380 goodness!

.380 ACP Carry Load

.380 annd CCW

.380 load (Calling Erich)

Good 380 SD ammo recommendations please...

.380 for CC

The .380

380 self defense ammo
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:40 PM
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Pretty much a worthless caliber. In between 25 ACP and 9 mm. If you want a pocket gun, Keltec makes smaller guns in 9mm
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:48 PM
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"Bond ......James Bond"........ nuff said !

It you can shoot like him, need a good tux gun then.....PPK all the way!

"Hits like a brick through a plate glass window..... the CIA swears by them [in .32apc]"

Sometimes I need the later ........wish I could claim the former.

Though a lock breach .380 like the Colt Mustang or I think the Sig 238.... has less recoil than a blow-back Walther or Beretta.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:52 PM
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A .380 is somewhat better than throwing rocks.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:55 PM
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As others have stated, you can do much better with similar cost in weapon and ammo. Would hate to get shot by a .380 but would also hate to use it as an offensive or defensive weapon.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
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A .380 is somewhat better than throwing rocks.
That depends on the size of the rock and how good an arm you have.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:41 PM
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Default jhps vs fmjs

Modern JHPs are more highly effective at lower velocity than they used to be. Bullets like the Gold Dot or XPT are better yet. FMJs tends to over penetrate and shoot a clean hole right through. Our troops are obligated to use FMJs by treaty and they have complained about this.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
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Modern JHPs are more highly effective at lower velocity than they used to be. Bullets like the Gold Dot or XPT are better yet. FMJs tends to over penetrate and shoot a clean hole right through. Our troops are obligated to use FMJs by treaty and they have complained about this.
How many .380 FMJ overpenetration cases have you worked on?

I can tell you that I have worked on three shootings in which .380 JHP failed to penetrate adequately.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:48 PM
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How many .380 FMJ overpenetration cases have you worked on?

I can tell you that I have worked on three shootings in which .380 JHP failed to penetrate adequately.
Somehow I got to talking about 9mm!!! No....380s don't overpenetrate. But they are more effective with the modern bullets than they used to be.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinva View Post
Being "new" to this caliber with a brand new firearm, I'd like to know what everyone likes to carry in a smaller framed (pocket) 380 for self defense, specifically a Ruger LCP.

I have heard that both hollow points and FMJ rounds can be utilized. What are the pro's and cons of both in the .380cal along with your preference?

DR
The .380 is not intended for long range engagement. It is commonly chambered in pistols like the Ruger LCP which are designed for use at relatively close range... from hard off the muzzle on out to maybe 15 yds.

Plain Jane FMJ's will penetrate... very likely all the way through and out the other side of a assailant. If you hit a organ, vein or artery or the spine, cool. Otherwise, the FMJ is not going to have much immediate effect. That is true regardless of the caliber used.

A JHP is a better option. However, all JHP's are not created equal. Some of them simply are not reliable. Firing from a short barrel pistol only exacerbates this problem. At worst, the JHP will not open and the bullet will act like a FMJ. At best it will open. This will enhance it's on target effectiveness. Look for a modern design that takes advantage of the very best developments in self-defense ammunition.

Use FMJ ammo for practice, etc. It is typically less expensive and will provide practical experience in using the pistol. Check feeding and function w/ the SD/HD load you select. This will also allow you to determine POI relative to POA. There may possibly be some divergence compared to ball type practice ammunition.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinva View Post
Being "new" to this caliber with a brand new firearm, I'd like to know what everyone likes to carry in a smaller framed (pocket) 380 for self defense, specifically a Ruger LCP.

I have heard that both hollow points and FMJ rounds can be utilized. What are the pro's and cons of both in the .380cal along with your preference?

DR
I hate the 380.

The problem with mouse guns and mouse gun calibers is that they are hard to shoot accurately with any speed. A DA trigger in such a small and light gun is not ideal.

They are indeed a "get off me" gun. Which means you've waited too long to act.

What I mean is that for most people the gun is useless at 7 yards. The point where most of us carrying a larger service caliber gun have already started shooting.

The 380 will definitely hurt someone. But that's not necessarily the intent. Stopping them is what we need and want. So with a 380 you MUST be accurate immediately.

If your determined to carry it, shoot it. A lot!

The above is based on my experience in trying to find a reason to carry a mouse gun. I got rid of all of them. A J frame solved those issues. Back up or second yes. Not primary.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:59 PM
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Ruger has updated the LCP for this year. It now has sights you can see (but still small) and they have changed the trigger pull so that it breaks quite a bit sooner than previous models. Both things should help improve accuracy, but it still is basically a spittin distance weapon. I am considering getting one for those low threat social occasions when most people would leave the gun at home...like church. Last year a guy walked into a sunday church service in a town near me, and shot his ex wife who was the organist. She wasn't dead, and he walked from where he shot to where she was laying. The people got between them and he threatened to shoot them too. They moved and he finished her off. If one of the congregation had been carrying a gun, she would be alive. It might only be a 380, but in that situation it would have been enough.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesy814 View Post
Ruger has updated the LCP for this year. It now has sights you can see (but still small) and they have changed the trigger pull so that it breaks quite a bit sooner than previous models. Both things should help improve accuracy, but it still is basically a spittin distance weapon. I am considering getting one for those low threat social occasions when most people would leave the gun at home...like church. Last year a guy walked into a sunday church service in a town near me, and shot his ex wife who was the organist. She wasn't dead, and he walked from where he shot to where she was laying. The people got between them and he threatened to shoot them too. They moved and he finished her off. If one of the congregation had been carrying a gun, she would be alive. It might only be a 380, but in that situation it would have been enough.
I know people that carry at church where legal. No offense, but church is the last place I would carry a mouse gun.

If you intend to defend yourself and only yourself up close and personal with such a gun, fine. But if defending yourself AND others a bigger gun is needed. Church is one place where anyone could find themselves taking a shot at longer distances with people moving about. Mouse gun ain't gonna cut it.

That's one big reason why I don't like them. Too many limitations.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:24 AM
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The 380 is truely one of the best handgun cartridges of the world.
Another winning design from John Browning. Same diameter as the
38 spl and 9mm in a short round that works in very compact handguns
and has enough power to completely penetrate the upper torso of a
large assailant at SD distance. The 380 should be appreciated for what
it is rather than compared to much larger hanguns. I own several 380s,
all classic designs made of machined steel. For consistant performance
I think good 95 gr FMJ is the best choice in ammo.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:23 AM
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A 380 is at its best in a pocket gun. Something like the Keltec, Ruger LCP or Diamondback 380.

I love my J frames but I have some pants and shorts that the pocket is not deep enough to let me carry one. This is where my Diamondback comes into play. And it being striker fired is just a bonus.

I think the 380 has its place. I do not care for it in a larger size frame. Might as well step up to a 9mm but in a small compact mouse gun is where it belongs. These days the 380 is put into 25 acp size mouse guns. I would much rather have a 380 than a 25.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:37 AM
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I have been use to a .25 for many many years. My reason for the new .380 was more power, same size, that simple.

Besides all the "bad" you read on the .25, I never once felt "under armed" in close situations. I have many old soup cans that looked like major pin cushions, in and out and gone.

So the new .380 I cannot wait to try, being use to the .25 as a pocket rocket, the .380 should be a power house

DR
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:39 AM
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Of course there are bigger, better and badder guns. The problem is that all to often, they're in the glovebox, or the safe, or at home when you're not.

Rule #1 for winning a gunfight is "Have a Gun". Rule #2 is "Practice with it, a lot".

Follow those two rules, and the gun will do it's job. Nobody wants your wallet so much that he'll risk a second or third hit from a .380 at close range, assuming he even is still breathing.

When you have other practical alternatives, such as a home defense gun, consider something a bit more powerful.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:42 AM
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I fail to see the advantages of a pocket .380 (the only kind of .380 I'd consider) when a .38 Special J-frame is an option, but I'm known to be an old throwback. I certainly would prefer a .380 over a .25 or .22, but I'd consider it as a BUG.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:00 PM
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i carry and shoot my LCP on a regular basis. i have Glaser Powerball in it. velocity is king here, and they are fast. is it my only gun? no. do i carry it everywhere i can legally? yes. is it the only gun i carry? heck no. it is a back up gun. that is all it is ever going to be. is it enough when i go to the garbage cans? yup. was it ever meant to be a primary? don't think so. it fills a role like every good tool. i love my LCP and will continue to carry it as my #2.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:01 PM
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Ok for defending yourself if you don't have a gun.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:43 PM
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I have a Kahr .380 that I carry when wanting more concealment than normal - weather, attire, event, etc. The .380 has it's place, and was a widely used Police issue caliber in Europe during the same time as our own .38 Special was used by LEO's here in the states. Are their better options out there, sure. But I also think many of us need to re-think the capability of rounds based on past reputation. There have been such advances in bullet design and propellents over the past few years that's it's a whole new ballgame in terms of performance. I recently read a test/comparison report on self-defense rounds and was astonished to see the new generation .22 Magnums ranking up there with a lot of the favorites. Wow. In this case, it had to do with penetration. A small round able to penetrate layers of clothing and wound/stop/kill an assailant does the job.
It isn't all about supersizing as the fast-food industry has conditioned us to believe. The self-defense rounds produced by all the major manufactures now days are downright nasty....and very effective for there intended use. The .380 is a viable self-defense choice at close range; which is where it all happens.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:54 PM
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My experience w/the super small .380 has been abysmal so I went back to the J frame. If you can get one to run for you go for it but understand the limitations. Some alternate FMJ w/HP in the mag, just make sure it will work that way.

The only sub compact polymer gun that ever worked 100% for me is the Keltec P32, and that only gets carried (w/FMJ) when deep concealment is mandated by social circumstances.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida J Frame View Post
LAPD approved the LCP for back up and off duty carry only when loaded with Hornady Critical Defense.
Yes, until last year when due to failure to fire/misfire issues we went to this.

Speer Lawman, .380 ACP, FMJ, 95 grain, FMJ, Product Number 53608
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:20 PM
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Judging from what I've seen, that will serve you much better, my friend. You can make fun of the Feebies all you want, but those protocols of theirs are pretty darned sensible.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:21 AM
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I carry flat nose FMJ ammo in my LCP, and have for years. Everyone has an opinion, but where I live, I don't have to shoot my way back home every night. I cannot attest to it's ability in a firefight, but it has served flawlessly dispatching opossums, stray dogs, and other assorted varmints. It also is small enough to be comfortable in my front pocket.

If I felt I was going somewhere that trouble was probable, I'd take a rifle, or better yet, stay home. No handgun, in my opinion, is a good fighting weapon, but the one you have with you is much better than nothing in a pinch.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mscampbell2734 View Post
Yes, until last year when due to failure to fire/misfire issues we went to this.

Speer Lawman, .380 ACP, FMJ, 95 grain, FMJ, Product Number 53608
Thanks for the update. I did hear that Hornady had some issues with hard primers a while back but I hadn't come across this info.
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:02 AM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
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I fail to see the advantages of a pocket .380 (the only kind of .380 I'd consider) when a .38 Special J-frame is an option, but I'm known to be an old throwback. I certainly would prefer a .380 over a .25 or .22, but I'd consider it as a BUG.
I'm a revolver guy at heart, and own several j frames. I switched to carrying the LCP because it is flat, and therefore much more comfortable in the front pocket. I found the cylinder of the j frame less comfortable and more difficult to conceal than the flat profile of the LCP.
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:59 AM
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In a Sig P238 the Corbon Pow R Ball works well. The bullet expands and does not clog.

There is a place for the .380acp. In my mind it can be a backup that I can hand to someone I'm with in a dire situation or as a backup for the primary going down. Great for stuffing in a pocket holster for those times a tucked in shirt is needed.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:11 PM
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I hold my nose and carry this Kel Tec P3AT when I can't contrive to carry anything larger and that ain't too often. A supply of the hot Santa Barbara surplus .380 ammunition was laid in back in late 2005 when the pistol was purchased. This speedy flat-nosed (slightly concave nose) bullet clocks an realistic 1033 fps out of the P3AT's short barrel and gives flawless function. I'm not a big believer in "trick, expando-matic" bullets anyway and would not carry the .380 with any sort of hollow-point bullets under any circumstances.



This P3AT was a stinker that wouldn't give dependable function at all. Rather than to go the "fluff & buff" route suggested on the Kel Tec forum I determined to make a hobby of shooting it until it either became reliable or got tossed in disgust. It took around 600 rounds to iron things out but it runs right now.

I don't personally find the .380 ACP very inspiring and loathe the P3AT's DAO trigger, the indistinct lumps that are provided as sights, and the plastic. My brother-in-law has an early Ruger LCP and I felt its sights were a marked improvement to an otherwise identically wretched pistol. I'd trade into one of the LCP's with the improved sights as was mentioned in the above post but it's not worth the bother and expense.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:43 PM
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Better than a rock or big stick. That said, I still would NOT shot with one. Just empty the mag first!!
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:56 PM
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Taking the new .380 to the range in the am. Finally drove around today and found a couple boxes of ball ammo. Two blazer and one blue box fioochi (sp?) . Can't wait to see how she shoots!
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:07 AM
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Is there anyone here who can honestly say that they would not have fear facing someone ready to shoot them with a .380? A .380 is no one's first choice as a self defense weapon, and a .380 isn't going to have much effect against a PCP-fueled attacker unless you can put one into what is left of his drug-ravaged brain. However, as a small concealable firearm to be used in a self defense emergency, it will serve it's purpose 99% of the time.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:51 AM
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If a 380 is good enough for James Bond it's good enough for us.

Only he calls it 9mm short.

We all know that Bond can shoot a running man from 100 feet away while diving for cover and hit and stop him every time.

What more could you want?

Last edited by Cal44; 08-28-2013 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C17 View Post
Pretty much a worthless caliber. In between 25 ACP and 9 mm. If you want a pocket gun, Keltec makes smaller guns in 9mm
This statement is false and misleading.
I would recommend an educational experience, and then, perhaps a flat, non-objective, strictly subjective statement.
Information is the key.
Experience is the teacher.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:55 PM
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Use Full metal jacket ball it feeds good and penetrate's enough to reach vital's. Hollow points are to light don't reach vitals. Of a half dozen shooting's are ER room never seen one full metal jacket 380 go through a torso and half were DOA. Hp are a joke in 380's,32 acp and 38spec. snubby's.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:54 PM
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Use Full metal jacket ball it feeds good and penetrate's enough to reach vital's. Hollow points are to light don't reach vitals. Of a half dozen shooting's are ER room never seen one full metal jacket 380 go through a torso and half were DOA. Hp are a joke in 380's,32 acp and 38spec. snubby's.
I've bet my life daily for a good many years that you're mistaken about hollow-points from a snub .38 Special. Decades of recorded shootings appear to validate my opinion that they are no kind of joke.

I have limited experience with .32 ACP and none with .380, but I'd much prefer not to be center-punched with a hollow-point or FMJ from either.

Just saying.
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  #45  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:12 AM
Neal39 Neal39 is offline
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I have a Mustang .380 that is too expensive to shoot.
It killed my chronograph with one shot.
It has a life sentence in the darkness of my gun safe for the rest of it's evil life. Neal39
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  #46  
Old 09-10-2013, 01:09 PM
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I hate the 380.



They are indeed a "get off me" gun. Which means you've waited too long to act.

What I mean is that for most people the gun is useless at 7 yards. The point where most of us carrying a larger service caliber gun have already started shooting.
really? 21 feet and you have started shooting? you know 21 feet away that someone is going to be a threat to your life in more than just the most unusual situation? the average self defense shooting is 6 feet or less. i hope you have a large legal defense fund and if not id start saving now.
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:29 PM
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I have been use to a .25 for many many years. My reason for the new .380 was more power, same size, that simple.

Besides all the "bad" you read on the .25, I never once felt "under armed" in close situations. I have many old soup cans that looked like major pin cushions, in and out and gone.

So the new .380 I cannot wait to try, being use to the .25 as a pocket rocket, the .380 should be a power house

DR
Our home town had a bully, a tall fellow. He frequented bars and picked on littler folks. He took great glee in picking on one smaller fellow. The gent got tired of being bullied, slapped and humiliated. He bought a .25 semi-auto. 7 rounds.

The bully started his clown act, the smaller gent pulled the .25 and emptied it in the stomach of the bully.

The bully rushed to the emergency room thinking he was a dead man with all of his prized organs being riddled and all.

The town Dr went into surgery thinking he was working on a soon to be dead man. Not one bullet went past the abdominal muscles.

It was deemed self defense. The smaller gent left town. The bully quit running bars, drinking, started going to church and stayed home at nights.

This happened when I was a Deputy. I knew both men.

All the LE's in our area that carried a .25 pocket back-up quit them cold.

Our summary was the .25 is good to slow a bully down and convert him to religion. Not much else though.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:29 PM
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Wow, was that a great story, model70hunter - thanks!
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  #49  
Old 09-10-2013, 04:44 PM
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I agree with Eric FMJ in 380 and the 32acp are proven stoppers when you hit center mass. Ball will reach the vitals. Too many people think Hollow points make magic stoppers. 9mm,38,40,45 all will not stop if you can not hit center mass,gut shot is gut shot and shot in the arm or leg the same. Today most web commando's think pray and spray and bad hits will stop a fight in bigger cals. 12-16 shot fired maybe two hits in non lethal area's. I would rather have a man with 32 or 380 with ball that can stay cool and hit center mass than a web commando with a 45 that can't hit anything and have a brown mark in his unders.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:52 PM
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In 4000 GSW autopsies, I have never seen a .25 cal projectile fail to penetrate the abdominal musculature. It must have been some very old bad ammo!

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