More power than .38, less rowdy than .357 Mag?

[Triggernosis]

Is there a cartridge that has more power than the .38 Special but is more "manageable" than the .357 Magnum?

[BarbC]

.38 +p

.

[sourdough44]

Or a lightly handloaded 357.

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Or a .45 ACP, perhaps in a revolver.

[I actually carry what Barb recommended.]

[Swissman]

Q: "Is there a cartridge that has more power than the .38 Special but is more "manageable" than the .357 Magnum?"

A: .44 Special............. More "oohmph", less "outch".

Swissman

[feralmerril]

I think .44 special or .45 colt will do the job.

[Kanewpadle]

Supposedly the new 327 Federal is supposed to be the answer to that question.

Guess we'll see.

I prefer to stay mainstream.

[Triggernosis]

So a .44 Special has less ouch than a .357 Mag? I didn't know that.

[BarbC]

I'm probably confused. Are you looking for loads for the same handgun or just shopping around for ammunition choice ideas?

The type of gun the particular ammunition is in will also affect the perceived recoil.

[Damn Yankee]

Check Out the 38 Super

[Wheelgunner840]

I've never had a problem with a .357 in a full sized revolver like a GP-100 or any L or N frame. I guess "rowdy" is a relative term. Shooting a full house .357 mag in one of them new fangled air-weight revolvers will get your attention in a hurry, but so will a .44 special, .45ACP, or a .45LC. It's all about the launching system.

I am going to guess that you have a lightweight, or at least a small (J-Frame) .357, and want something to feed it so that it doesn't break your wrist. Short answer. If it is for self defense, get some Speer Gold Dot .38 special +Ps. They will most likely get the job done for you. Shoot standard .38 specials at the range for practice sessions.

We definately need more info to correctly address your question.


WG840

[Triggernosis]

Originally Posted by BarbC

I'm probably confused. Are you looking for loads for the same handgun or just shopping around for ammunition choice ideas?

The type of gun the particular ammunition is in will also affect the perceived recoil.

Barb, I'm not looking for loads. I'm just kinda "thinking" right now about what I'd like to get next. I have a .357 Mag. revo. with compensated 2-1/2" barrel (Rossi) and it's a bear to get a quick follow-up shot with due to being so rambunctious. I don't want to get a .38 and feel "undergunned" though.
I don't know if I want a carry-size gun or something to tote in the truck, boat, etc.. I DO, however, know I want another revolver.;-)

Just thinking out loud here....

[RonJ]

[Ron H.]

Originally Posted by Triggernosis

Barb, I'm not looking for loads. I'm just kinda "thinking" right now about what I'd like to get next. I have a .357 Mag. revo. with compensated 2-1/2" barrel (Rossi) and it's a bear to get a quick follow-up shot with due to being so rambunctious. I don't want to get a .38 and feel "undergunned" though.
I don't know if I want a carry-size gun or something to tote in the truck, boat, etc.. I DO, however, know I want another revolver.;-)

Just thinking out loud here....

Sir, snub .357s are notoriously difficult to shoot well with full-power ammo. Look for heavier guns with 4-inch or longer barrels, and avoid the bigger magnums (.41 and up). Things like .44 special, .45 Colt and ACP, and even the .357 in full-size steel guns will all be more comfortable than your snubbie.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

[roundgunner]

Originally Posted by Ron H.

Sir, snub .357s are notoriously difficult to shoot well with full-power ammo. Look for heavier guns with 4-inch or longer barrels, and avoid the bigger magnums (.41 and up). Things like .44 special, .45 Colt and ACP, and even the .357 in full-size steel guns will all be more comfortable than your snubbie.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

I have to agree. I have a 357 J frame M-60 that I carry a lot. It is tough to shoot full power well. I shoot a lot, 400-500 rounds a month when I’m not training for a match, so I'm confident in my abilities. I still feel like I need to put at least 50 rounds a month thru the carry gun of the month. In the summer the J frame goes out pretty regularly. I use Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr 357 MAG for carry. It is a mid power load, I had the data but can’t find it right now but I think it was about 100 fps more than the Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr 38+p. if I remember right the 357 was about 1000 fps.

After saying all that I need to agree with the 44 SPL, 45acp calibers as easier to shoot. It is not just the recoil but also the blast. Have you ever felt the slap of blast from a full power 357 on the top of your feet? It is intimidating even for experienced shooters. When you get a 357 up into the 170,000 power factor range it is a totally different animal than a 44-45.

[Snapping Twig]

You want more power and a good follow-up shot? Try a 1911 and .45acp - nothing quite like it!

I shoot both a 1911 and a Sig 220 (which is no slouch). I prefer the 1911, but bottom line - the acp is the right round for the job you described.

[oldRoger]

I would suggest a 696 (44 spl, 3", 5 shot) If you want concealable. as swissman says less ouch. Unfortunately, you will not find good loads unless you hand load or go to one of the specialty makers.
240 grs @ 1000 fps=serious business.

[Catshooter]

Yep, forty-five acp, although I'm not to sure I'd say it has less power than a .357 . . .


Cat

[Evil One]

I generally carry either .45 acp or .44 special... usually both at the same time.
Both are very mild, I like .44 mag snubbies... so my idea of mild may be different that other peoples.
My .44 spl is a Taurus M445, 5 shot snubby... I use it as my pocket gun.


Jim

[billdeserthills]

how about a 9mm or to step up from that, a .357 Sig

[gizamo]

.327 Federal in the right handgun...

giz

[therevjay]

WWB 110gr HP's out of my Mod.60 arn't painful. And probably have more oomph then .38 SPL+P.

125 gr get my attention. 158gr hurt so bad I checked to see if the gun had exploded.

My conclusion is. If you want to shoot 'full bore' .357's, you don't want a 'j frame'.

[Big Cholla]

The cartridge you are looking for has been around for over 50 years. It is the .38 Super. Available in several very small autoloader frames and in a few revolvers using moon clips. This cartridge seems to be inherently accurate. Modern ammo with the latest bullet design has only improved the performance of the Super. A smaller 1911 style frame is flat and very concealable by anyone of small stature. I like it well enough to often carry concealed a 1911 Colt Commander 'cocked and locked'. To my dismay only LEO's and IPSC/IDPA gamesmen seem to know and appreciate this cartridge. ........ Big Cholla

[paragon1]

Buffalo Bore 38 spec +P. Has 9mm velocity out of snubs:

tem 20A: 158gr., very soft cast, semi wad cutter, (Keith) hollow cavity, with a gas check. This bullet will mushroom violently on impact and will penetrate roughly 14 inches in human flesh. Again, this bullet is gas checked and will not lead your barrel.

S&W mod. 60, 2 inch- 1040 fps (379 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch- 1059 fps (393 ft. lbs.)
Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1143 fps (458 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)

Item 20B: 125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point. This is the Low velocity version designed to expand under 800 fps. It will mushroom violently and penetrate roughly 12 inches in human flesh.

a. S&W mod 60, 2 inch- 1072 fps (319 ft. lbs.)
b. S&W mod 66, 2.5 inch- 1108 fps (341 ft. lbs.)
c. Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1180 fps (386 ft. lbs.)
d. S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1258 fps (439 ft. lbs.)

[m657]

On the 8th day, the Lord created the 41 Mag.......

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I still think that while speed and power are fine, accuracy is final.

[Mickey D]

Originally Posted by Triggernosis

So a .44 Special has less ouch than a .357 Mag? I didn't know that.

Yes. .44 spl or the .45 Colt are both great cartridges and easy to handle.

Someone post pictures already.

696 .44 spl

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Mickey D

Yes. .44 spl or the .45 Colt are both great cartridges and easy to handle.

Someone post pictures already.

Well... since you asked...
I LOVE .44 spl and .45 acp.



Jim

[feralmerril]

I agree with feralmerril, .44 special or .45 colt.

[spearcrow]

The 38spl+p is really comparative to a lot of 357 stock ammo, and the two become even closer when fired from a snubby barrel, where a lot off your potential velocity may be lost compared to a longer barrel. Also, in most of my shorter barreled 357 mags, muzzle blast is an issue, epsecially at night.

I also would agree with several folks on here and say 44spl, versatility increses big time if you hand load; but for that matter, if you were using a 3.5" M 27 those 357 mags wouldn't seem near as rough as in a K frame, or even L frame.

[Triggernosis]

Thanks guys and gals, this has been very enlightening. I think I really need to get with somebody that has a collection of different size & caliber revolvers and try some out to see what I get along best with.

[stiab]

Originally Posted by Big Cholla

The cartridge you are looking for has been around for over 50 years. It is the .38 Super.

Actually, you can shoot certain brands of 38 Super out of your modern S&W revolvers. I am not recommending it for everyone, but it can be done.

When hearing this for the first time many people say "NO" because the 38 Super is an semi-auto round and does not have a rim to hold it in the cylder. Wrong - it does have a rim.

Or they will confuse it with the 9mm and say it has a tapered case and cannot fit in a .38 or .357 chamber. Wrong - it has a straight case.

Modern Winchester and Magtech 38 Super rounds will fit in modern .38 Special and .357 revolvers, same thing for many Colts. Some older (70's) models will not accomodate them. Other brands of factory ammo will not work.

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

Any 3" Mountain Gun that starts with a 4- shooting a Heavy bullet at less than 900 fps is what you're looking for.

Cowboy loads in a 45 Colt chambered Mtn gun.........

Reallllly wimpy.

[Triggernosis]

I'm beginning to like the .44 Spec. or .45 Colt idea....

[alphabrace]

Is the .45 colt also known as the 45 long colt?

[Catshooter]

Originally Posted by alphabrace

Is the .45 colt also known as the 45 long colt?

Yep.


Cat

[Mickey D]

Originally Posted by alphabrace

Is the .45 colt also known as the 45 long colt?

Yes. Officially .45 Colt. Long Colt was added as to distinguish from .45acp

[Onomea]

For what it's worth, I occasionally shoot 357 out of a 640-1, an all steel J-frame. Have some Jordan Troopers from Herretts on it that cover the back strap, too. It's quite comfortable.

A good set of grips/stocks will make a difference, too, in comfort.

To Barb's and Wheelgunners point, 357 from an N-frame is no problem at all for most people.

[Uncle Larry]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

Supposedly the new 327 Federal is supposed to be the answer to that question.

Guess we'll see.

I prefer to stay mainstream.

And speaking of...what ever happened to the 327 Federal any way? It seems to have dissapeared off of the face of the earth.

[crofoot629]

I’m with you, maybe?

I’ve never been able to shoot the .357 well, too much muzzle blast and recoil. To big for light work and to small for heavy work? (ducking and running for cover)

You have many choices that I think are better and fit the bill you are looking for.

As others have mentioned, the 44 special is a pussy cat compared to the 357 in revolvers of the same weight. I however would be inclined to go .45 acp for the same reasons, and the ammo is cheaper than 44spc, and there is a much greater selection of 45 acp ammo. I’d rather have either a 44 spc or 45 acp for self defense than 38 spc or 357 mag. See my second paragraph.

If you want to go to an autoloader I find both the 45 acp and 40 S&W much easier to shoot than the 357 mag. I’d also rather have a high cap 9mm than a 38 spc.

You almost have too many choices, you’re certainly not stuck with the 38/357 choice, and you can get what you want with a mainstream cartridge. Sorry 327 Federal.

Emory

[Triggernosis]

Originally Posted by MOONDAWG

For days I want more than what a J-framed .38 spl. has to offer with less weight/bulk than a K-framed .357 mag I chose a compact (3.5" - 4") 9mm parabellum.

With the wide choice of factory loads available today I can get 1150-1350 FPS in an easy handling 18-21 oz package that holds 13-16 rounds.

Moondawd, did you choose the 9mm Para. because you wanted more "power" or more rounds?

[pawncop]

Triggernosis,

As you have read, there are many options to your situation.

Allow me to muddy the waters just a little bit more.

My primary off duty sidearm is the Glock 32 (357 Sig) with a Hart's recoil reducer guide rod. The reason it is my primary off duty is I have 16 rounds (with a 2+ magazine adaptor), it is a very good round, I am (without bragging) dead on with it, and it is very manageable from a recoil standpoint.

This is not to take anything away from the other comments.

Were I to have to go back to a revolver for duty carry, I would choose my S&W 25-5 in 45 Colt, or a Model 29 4" loaded with 44 Special, or my Model 57 in 41 Magnum.

But I will probably just keep toting my S&W M&P in 45 ACP, oh and in a compact version, that would be great as well.

Remember, the joy is in the quest.

[BarbC]

The S&W M&P 45 compact is great - powerful yet not punishing to the shooter.

[Triggernosis]

Thanks again for all the replies.

Pawncop, what is the difference between the Models 29 and 57?

[oldfella]

And then there is Buffalo Bore, especially for short-barreled guns - Check it out:

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Pete

[delta-419]

I hate to tell you a secret, but there are guys around here that feel that if we let this out, there will be one more shooter looking for an already scarce item. The 38/44 is the best of both worlds HV 38 specials shot out of a very heavy N frame. Little recoil and performance about the same as the .357 mag. Old time quality and accuracy. There, now I've done it!

[Onomea]

Originally Posted by Triggernosis

Thanks again for all the replies.

Pawncop, what is the difference between the Models 29 and 57?

M29 is 44 mag and 57 is 41 mag.

[Donn]

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

Check Out the 38 Super

I normally avoid these caliber threads like the plague. They usually descend into "Mine's better than yours." Then I saw the magic words, 38 Super. Trig, if you're open to a 1911 platform, take a look at one in 38 Super. It should fit your needs like a glove.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Swissman

Q: "Is there a cartridge that has more power than the .38 Special but is more "manageable" than the .357 Magnum?"

A: .44 Special............. More "oohmph", less "outch".

Swissman

+1

My 4" 29-2 is very pleasant to shoot with .44 Specials, even the 200gr. Speer and Federal self-defense loads.

I've probably shot 10:1 Specials over Magnums in mine.

[Dennis The B]

Try one of these: