Since the world has gone crazy and ammo harder to find i haave had two instances with factory ammo, both in 45 colt. I had a winchester that would not chamber. Took it to ma reloading room and pulled the bullits. Yea, it had 2, the farthest one in backwards. The other time a reming ton that jumped out of the case on first fire. These were not cowboy loads. Just wondering if any one else has had problems with factory ammo recently. I think the companies are crankin out way too much to keep up with demand.

Over the decades, I have seen more commercial loads fail than I have experienced with my own reloads.
It is nothing new, and may be a little more frequent during times of max production and added shifts at the factories.
Either way, it is a rare event. You know, rare, like getting actually hit by a tornado in Oklahoma--just not quite rare enough.

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Science plus Art

I will second the statement about having Factory ammo fail more than my own reloads! In the tens & tens of thousands of reloads I've made I only had ONE FTF and that was because of a bad Remington Primer.

A few years ago I found a .40 S&W round with the bullet seated backwards.
Always pays to check 'em.
Jim

I collect photos of fouled up factory ammo for the occasions when I hear "No one should ever use hand loaded ammunition for SD because Bubba can't make ammo like Winchester/Remington/Federal".

Wouldn't have a picture of that Siamese Colt, would 'ya?

I think its just more common to hear about it today. 20 years ago you couldnt complain to the entire world with a few key strokes.

I dont seecwhat the problem is in the 1st photo besides the couple blemish spots

And I would not use someones reloads for SD or range. Let me know when you warranty your reloads

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

The issue of handloaded ammo vs factory in a self defense situation does not hinge on which is the most reliable. It hinges on giving the prosecution another issue with which to attack the defendant. That is because they will make the claim that you were trying to make your ammunition more lethal ahead of time with an intent to kill. Most don't realize that in a self defense situation you can legally use the force necessary to "stop" the attacker from his intended course. The laws don't indicate in most cases that you may "kill" him. However, if you shoot accurately with whatever ammunition, then death is a useful bi-product. That is the issue with handloaded ammunition in a nutshell. If one chooses to use handloads that is a personal choice that one must make for themselves based solely on what they perceive is best for them.

The hollow point versus soft point issue has already been used in court to help convict a shooter. Whether or not it was foremost in the juries mind we shall never know. But it was an issue. As a retired LEO, I use HP ammo for carry exclusively. My rationale is that when I was working that is what I was issued and it is considered the standard for "self defense" in most views and is exactly what is carried by most LE departments for that purpose.

Sorry no picture of colt load, i pulled bothbullets and decided that i would not reload that case, crushed it as i do all defective cases and tossed it into the trash.

Remington has had issues with their ammo lately. But overall factory ammo is pretty reliable.

And to compare factory ammo to handloads is unrealistic.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Most if us refrain from using our reloads for self defense for liability reasons, NOT reliability reasons.

Being that ammo Companies have been cranking out product at record numbers even though we do encounter FTF's from time to time, the percentages are still relatively low. Not that it makes me happy when one occurs, but NOTHING in this world is 100% perfect!

Okay I'll take the bait:

Since this has never happened I do not worry about it. There has never been a case of self defense where the use of reloads was at issue.

Not.

Ever.

I have had conversations with M.E.'s from Chicago and Atlanta who have never had a request nor have they heard of such a thing even being possible.

Despite asking time and time again for even one shred of proof from anyone making the claim that the use of reloads for self defense has been at issue, none has been offered. (And don't throw out the Ayoob thing. That case was to determine whether it was suicide or murder and the request was a hail Mary from the defense. It had not a thing to do with a self-defense issue.)

If you care to substitute the first person (I will not use reloads because I have heard...) in lieu of (YOU should not use reloads because YOU will be...) I will not argue. The ammo you use is your business, and none of mine.

In the thread from where I got the picture, a bunch of folks were telling the OP he needed to return the "defective" ammo and demand an explanation because in their eyes, it could not be depended on for SD.

And I do not use anyone else's ammo either. Just mine, for me.

Just curious, what sort of "warranty" does Federal or Remington offer on their ammo?

If that makes you feel more confident, go for it.

Completely agree. It is unrealistic to think that a company that size, making the volume of ammunition that they do, could even approach the exactitude and detail taken in the manufacture of handloaded ammunition.

I have read forum postings from Massad Ayoob making the case for not carrying reloads. His overriding argument is forensics, but he also points to a specific case as you are describing in State of NH v. Sgt James Kennedy.

James Kennedy was a LEO in NH. He was pursuing a drunk driver whose reckless driving had forced other drivers off the highway. The driver crashed and Kennedy approached the vehicle. At the driver’s door, the driver grabbed Kennedy’s .45 auto and pulled it towards himself. It discharged in his face.

Kennedy's gun was loaded with reloads. He was charged with aggravated assault. They made a large issue out of his use of handloads, suggesting that they were indicative of a reckless man obsessed with causing maximum damage.

Apparently, Ayoob was involved in some way because he said that he recommended an expert for the defense to hire who ultimately debunked the argument.

We don't post links to other Forums here, but the cases that Ayoob uses to support his position are easy to find on several forums dating back to 2005.

His final words are somewhat entertaining.... so I'll quote him.

I did not research the above and place it here to placate lightweight net ninjas. I did it because three recent Internet threads led me to believe that a number of decent people had honest questions about the real-world concerns about using handloads for self-defense, and were possibly putting themselves in jeopardy by doing so. For well over a decade, certain people have been creating an urban myth that says, “No one has ever gotten in trouble in court because they used handloads. This is now absolutely, and I hope finally, refuted.”

I think () that because for so many years factory self defense ammo was inadequate, ineffective, or unavailable people reloaded their own because they trusted it more.

This isn't the case these days.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

So, as it turns out, the argument was debunked. The same way it was in the Bias case. And it this a LEO-pursuing-a-bad-guy case not a self defense case.

Two cases cited, both debunked the myth that the use of reloads had anything to do with the outcome, and neither were cases of self-defense. And in neither case was the defendant in any more or any less trouble because of it.

I never heard of this Ayoob guy before I came to this forum. He has some good ideas, but he is not infallible.

Now at some point, some jackwagon is going to make some ridiculously out of spec reloads and a lawyer who reads Internet myths is going to wonder why the top strap of the gun blew plumb off and hit the Bad Guy in the eye and is going to successfully tie the two together. And all that's going to do is cause a bunch of folks to say "SEE I told you so!" and I will no longer have a valid point. Until then, I'll take vanilla.

And I am not any sort of Ninja. I'm much too old and out of shape for those shenanigans.

I think the lesson in the Kennedy case as cited by Ayoob was that reloads gave the prosecutor another avenue of attack that Kennedy had to defend against as well as hire an expert to refute. That it wasn't a specific case of self defense does not make it any less applicable to the discussion and concerns that folks may have considering what ammo to use for carry.

From what little I have read, Ayoob spends more time making the case for forensics as a reason to carry factory ammo. Apparently, he's got a bit of experience in this area as former Vice Chairman of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

As Ayoob described "Net Ninjas", I believe all that is required is an Internet connection and keyboard. You should be good to go.

Probably.

I never agonized much over it one way or another. I reload quite a bit, but carry factory ammo. My guess is that no one here will ever know any difference... cuz we'll never shoot anyone.

Fair enough, Phil. There is plenty of evidence that in cases unrelated to self defense, the use of handloads has been a tactic used by lawyers to attempt to cloud the case. Unsuccessfully.

And there is some anecdotal evidence that there may, at some time in the future, be a case related to self defense.

And if anyone is uncomfortable carrying their own hand made ammunition for self defense, there are plenty of folks who will agree with that decision.

I am, and have always been, one of them.

I do not, and have not, attempted to change anyone's mind. It is when someone says that I should not do so because "they" will use it against me that I take umbrage.

If that makes me wrong, I will continue to stand incorrect.

Good discussion. Thanks. ~ Alan

The reason to post on an Internet gun forum is to be told you've made the worst possible choices to defend yourself, right? A few weeks ago I posted that carry a .380. Now try that!

Enjoyed it.

4-5 years ago I bought a S&W 460mag to take to Alaska for bear medicine. I got the gun just days before I was to leave and on the first practice day I shot off two rounds and then a FTF and the cylinder locked up tight. I called S&W and the guy finally figured out that it was an ammo problem and we finally got the gun unlocked so I tried it again. I got one shot off and it locked up again. I called Hornady and they issued a next day pickup of the 3 boxes I had bought. The flash hole punch had broken on their line so the primers were igniting and just expanding to lock it up tight. I was not a very happy camper, and do not trust factory ammo for self defense anymore. Hornady just replaced the ammo round for round which I didn't feel was very generous considering what I went through. No more Hornady for me.......

Long ago in the Dark Ages (reloading in the basement under the steps in January in Minnesota at night), I failed to put powder in fifty 357 magnum cases. The cases were loaded with bullets, seated, crimped and dumped into a 50 cal ammo can. Than I continued to fill the ammo can with loaded ammo.

EDIT: I used 5 MTM plastic reloading trays, a RCBS RockChucker with a 10" long handle on it, and a RCBS Uniflow powder measure. I did not put powder in ONE tray of cases and went ahead and loaded them anyway. Something about 'double check your powder' ! I'm a slob reloader who dumps loaded ammo in to bulk ammo cans, and fills 50 round plastic boxes when I go to the range or a pistol match. The 50 "No Powder" rounds were half way down a 50 call ammo can. Load all winter, shoot all summer. EDIT END.

I enventually found all 50 cases without powder. I am unable to voice complaints about the quality of factory ammo. I have bought 1 box of 38 Spl WC, 1 box 30-06, 1 box 222 Rem in 40 years of reloading and shooting. I'm wearing my flame suit.

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S&WHF 366

There just has to be a story behind this. Fifty??!

Sounds like he got disturbed while reloading and forgot to put powder in one tray. Or maybe it was winter in MN and there was no heat in the basement, (that would make me forget to do a lot of things.)

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Minimize the variables

Thats just their version of units shortest and tallest. Much like: