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03-29-2014, 11:03 PM
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I hear much advice on such questions-- some places ban hollow points-- the point here is I believe almost to a person, those giving advice have never been shot and have NO IDEA what a traumatic event it can be, especially when unexpected -- 22 or 45, it is a most unpleasent experience that most can do with out-- certainly not for a TV or a lap top. Being prepared is of course the way to go, always, but short of some druggie hopped up on whatever, a decent placement will more than likely get the job done- JMHO --
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03-30-2014, 01:02 AM
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I forgot a major point.....
Most world militaries require fjm ammo by treaty because it is not as 'cruel' as hp ammo. The US army has found that the 9mm fmjs that they are required to use in their Berettas often shoot straight through their 'targets'. This indicates to me that an expanding bullet is more effective in 'stopping' ability. Another way around this is to use a BIG bullet, like a .45 caliber in which even an fmj has proven to be a great 'stopper' for the last 100 years.
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03-30-2014, 01:59 AM
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A heavy high speed hollow point is the way to go.
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03-30-2014, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTG_COLLECTOR
Regarding 45ACP FMJ ammo, if men can take multiple hits with rifle rounds, what makes you think that a 230gr bullet moving at 650-700fps max will be so much more effective than high velocity rifle rounds? The old popular sayings like "they all fall to 45 Hardball" is all just so much bull pucky.
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Hmm..., I was not aware that men can take multiple hits from
high velocity rifle rounds. Really??? Multiple hits from high
velocity rifle rounds, to the upper torso, chest area?? What
men? From what country...or planet maybe? I think our best
strategy would be to avoid war with such men altogether.
Anyway back on planet earth the OP asked about handgun
ammo as it is impractical to carry high powered rifles around
for SD, even around the home, yard and garage. My personal
opinion is that what really matters to a perp is being shot
with anything vs. victimizing someone he thought was an
easy target. I think the crazed attacker that "keeps a coming"
despite being shot multiple times is mostly a figment of
overactive imaginations. I agree that the .45 acp is the most
overated handgun round ever and that's why I prefer the
9mm. Twice as many rounds at 50% or more higher velocity.
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03-30-2014, 10:14 AM
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That last post is enough for me, I'm going back to the reloading forum. Not that it was the only one either.
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03-30-2014, 02:03 PM
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My sources, survivors/winners of many gunfights (a variety of military, LE, and private citizen encounters) between them, report that determined adversaries are out there and are hard to stop. One friend had a problem with a VC (he did not lie them, but he sure as hell respected them) that his M1 Garand did not rapidly solve with chest hits. He also investigated multiple shootings in his LE career, and had a pretty good set of data points to consider.
__________________
NHI, 10-8.
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03-30-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwslate
Hmm..., I was not aware that men can take multiple hits from
high velocity rifle rounds. Really??? Multiple hits from high
velocity rifle rounds, to the upper torso, chest area?? What
men? From what country...or planet maybe? I think our best
strategy would be to avoid war with such men altogether.
Anyway back on planet earth the OP asked about handgun
ammo as it is impractical to carry high powered rifles around
for SD, even around the home, yard and garage. My personal
opinion is that what really matters to a perp is being shot
with anything vs. victimizing someone he thought was an
easy target. I think the crazed attacker that "keeps a coming"
despite being shot multiple times is mostly a figment of
overactive imaginations. I agree that the .45 acp is the most
overated handgun round ever and that's why I prefer the
9mm. Twice as many rounds at 50% or more higher velocity.
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People are more resilient than you give them credit for and many are able and willing to keep going even when hit, especially if they are on something.
There is a reason the 9mm has been around since 1902 and the .45ACP for the 1911. Both have their merits and negatives and both are good defensive rounds. If they weren't, they wouldn't still be around.
If you prefer 9mm over .40 or .45, good for you and that is your choice, many people will agree with you.
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03-30-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. R. WEEMS
I hear much advice on such questions-- some places ban hollow points-- the point here is I believe almost to a person, those giving advice have never been shot and have NO IDEA what a traumatic event it can be, especially when unexpected -- 22 or 45, it is a most unpleasent experience that most can do with out-- certainly not for a TV or a lap top. Being prepared is of course the way to go, always, but short of some druggie hopped up on whatever, a decent placement will more than likely get the job done- JMHO --
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You are certainly correct but how many people are able to keep proper shot placement when the adrenaline is running? Not to mention if there is fear for self or family/friend's safety. Fine motor skills are the first to go in a fight or flight situation. Something that can not be simulated before hand at the range.
Based on the symbols in your posts header, I have to assume you have seen action and already know how you you will respond. I would like to think that if I'm ever in such a situation that I will have perfect shot placement but since I can't count on that, I will make sure I have an extra magazine or two.
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03-30-2014, 03:38 PM
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It has already been said many times so I'll just concur. Hollow points are designed to do two things, stay inside target and mushroom to cause much internal damage. Depending on the ammo a .40 cal. may be close to double it's size inside the body. FMJ will do a good job if properly placed but how many of us can put the round where we want it under extreme stressful situations. Probably not many of us and I include myself. Hollow points jagged edges cut more arteries and veins and do more damage to internal organs. I shot FMJ for target pratice but carry hollow points for self defense.
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