Did LAPD ever issue Winchester (X38SPD) 38 SP.+P 158 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter HP ammo to their officers for use in S&W revolvers?

All I can add is that the FBI Load did not exist until either '72 or '76. I have seen both dates mentioned. I would imagine LAPD was using a RNL bullet in the '60's as an educated guess.

Although the 158 LRN and 148 wc were standard training ammo
back then...............
there were some units that had access to the 158 Lwc for target use..........

and yes the Win. (not labeled +p) ammo did come out in 1972.

My grandfather in Carson City had the standard 38 LRN as issue ammo back in his day at the State prison. Sorry, no Calif. data on hand.

I wish to stress this is based upon reading, and other discussions with some of the players, as I am not and never have been an LAPD officer, although a close family friend retired from LAPD (he served from 1963 until 1991).

Based upon reading and other info, my recollection is that Edward Davis (3rd or 4th Chief after William Parker, I think), was interviewed in one of the gun magazines about why he did not authorize hollow point ammo for the LAPD K38s and Combat Masterpiece revolvers. His response was that he felt it "safer" for officers because many officers then (and now) were shot with their own weapons (remember, the unfortunate situation of Officers Campbell and Hettinger was still fresh in the minds of everyone at the time).

Most of us thought that was a well thought out answer crafted to not sound like he was caving to the same pressure from various nuts who objected to big city departments like LAPD and NYPD using hollow point ammo.

It took both cities decades to transition to hollow point ammo, and I am not sure LAPD ever did until after it adopted the Beretta and S&W 9mm autos. I know that NYPD used full metal jacket ammo when it first adopted the Glock (along with specially modified 10 round mags).

LAPD may have, and if they did, it was probably a 125 grain JHP in 38 Special, and it would have been not long before they adopted the 9mm, but I just cannot remember, and I cannot lay my hands conveniently on my file on this issue.

I sort of remember John Pride (LAPD firearms guy who won the Bianchi Cup several times) talking about the first 9mm hollow points in an interview, and he said they wanted something "not too radical" or words to that effect. That memory is what leads me to believe that LAPD may not have used hollow points in the 38 revolvers. As I said, however, it has been too long, and my materials are not easily accessed now.

In any event, the LAPD cartridge of choice until much later seemed to be the Winchester-Western 158 grain Lead Round Nose.

I don't think so, but Mike Grasso is a member here and retired LAPD. (A friend of mine, former LAPD Metro, now up here, told me a funny story about Mike doing something to get their attention at Rampart once ... .)

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

Nope. Never issued a lead HP.
We jumped from the RNL to the 9mm HP when we transitioned to the S&W / Beretta in the early 80's.

Currently it's the Speer Gold Dot 135gr GDHP for 38s.

Although I "retired" last year the Chief asked for me to stay on a reserve instructing at the Patrol Rifle / Tactical Shotgun Cadre, a unit I had the great pleasure of co-creating with some great Instructors after the North Hollywood Bank of America Incident.

And yes Rampart was one of my "cries" for attention

I do know that Dallas Texas PD issued 38 Special Winchester 158gr LHP in 1976.

I do not know exactly what year they started using it.

Which is why I lean toward 1972 as the intro date. The story was told that the first person shot with it by the FBI was a 300 lbs. biker that took one hit COM and folded like a lawn chair. By no means do I mean to infer that is a Star Trek phaser by any stretch of the imagination however.

I was in LA in I believe it was 1994 on a case in the US 9th Circuit and needed a few rounds for my .38 I was carrying, an airport cop gave me some 125 gr. JSP ammo as he said his agency and LAPD did not issue hollow-points. I'm not sure if LAPD and the police at LAX were carrying the same thing or not at the time.

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S&WCA #2815
Gun Scribe

I also remember that this round, the 158 Lead HP SWC from Winchester, was called the "Dallas Round, the Chicago Round and the FBI Round".

I do not know who started using it first.

Boge,
I can say that it was very effective in the shootings I am personally aware of, including several shootings with the S&W "Chief" snubnosed revolvers.

Much more effective than shootings I am personally aware of with the 147gr 9mm...


Later on Federal, and Remington also loaded a 38 Special, 158gr Lead HP SWC...

The '72 date seems right , because in '73 it was carried by the Game Warden who made a Cameo apearence at my "before the beginning" Hunter Safety class . I spotted the then unusual ammo in his ctg loops, and on a break he let he examine one.

The design of the bullet was different when first introduced , and went thru several refinements before gaining the shape that has since been more or less consistant from late '70's to today.

My agency changed from the 125 grain JHP to the Winchester version of the FBI load about 1985. I still have a small stash squirreled away for my carry K and J frame .38s.