Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Ammo
o

Notices

Ammo All Ammo Discussions Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-2014, 11:56 AM
blackpowder blackpowder is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: East of the Mississippi
Posts: 105
Likes: 15
Liked 32 Times in 20 Posts
Default .38special self defence ammo for snubbies

Hi all around!

Today I decided to get rid of my 18 remaining rounds of SD ammo by blowing them through the barrel of my 1966 Colt DS snubby at the local range.

I purchased them in 1984 and even though cartridges don't have an expiration date I thought it not a bad idea to replace them after 30 years (probably should have kept them as there wasn't a single misfire).

They were the last of a box of winchester silvertip +P, 125gr, HPs, which was a quite common SD load in the eighties. The question now is, what to replace them with? Back in those days the choices were limited to a handful of options. Now I am confronted with 3 dozen different choices of all types and sorts from a multitude of manufacturers. I am told there are even special types of ammo for use in short barrels.

Can anyone recommend something that is up to date and works?

THanks!
__________________
QM3
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-07-2014, 12:01 PM
ILTim ILTim is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North central IL
Posts: 65
Likes: 17
Liked 55 Times in 24 Posts
Default

I can assure you all those choices exist because people cannot agree on an answer to your question.

I like to avoid any new (less than ten years on the market) loads and bullets. Let someone else put their lives at risk testing them in the real world.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 07-07-2014, 12:09 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is online now
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

Only low pressure load I might trust is the ..........
Hornady " Defense " ammo, not the Duty LE rounds.

I prefer the +P 135 Gold Dot for a top load but some still
like the heavier 158gr Lead HP, "FBI Load" , if you feel ok with these extra power loads in your weapon.

Some that roll their own use the 148 lead wc but I do not feel comfortable with this load but if it was the only load in town, it would have to work, I guess.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 07-07-2014, 01:14 PM
16thVACav 16thVACav is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 7,209
Liked 8,703 Times in 3,106 Posts
Default

Ditto on the Speer Gold Dot +P 135s. Made for short barrels.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 07-07-2014, 01:32 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is online now
SWCA Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,910
Likes: 3,514
Liked 6,729 Times in 2,620 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpowder View Post
Hi all around!

Today I decided to get rid of my 18 remaining rounds of SD ammo by blowing them through the barrel of my 1966 Colt DS snubby at the local range.

I purchased them in 1984 and even though cartridges don't have an expiration date I thought it not a bad idea to replace them after 30 years (probably should have kept them as there wasn't a single misfire).

They were the last of a box of winchester silvertip +P, 125gr, HPs, which was a quite common SD load in the eighties. The question now is, what to replace them with? Back in those days the choices were limited to a handful of options. Now I am confronted with 3 dozen different choices of all types and sorts from a multitude of manufacturers. I am told there are even special types of ammo for use in short barrels.

Can anyone recommend something that is up to date and works?

THanks!
You shot them up before having a replacement on hand?

Here are three choices:

If you want to be vintage and use what the FBI used in the "gangster era," then get a box of Buffalo Bore "Outdoorsman" which duplicates the original 38/44 load with semi-wadcutter as specified in the report of the weapons committee to Director Hoover at the time.

If you want something more modern, then get the Speer 38 Special +P short barrel Gold Dot, item number 23921. This was developed for the NYPD, and does very well in 2 to 4 inch barrels.

There is still nothing wrong with Winchester X38SPD, the 158 grain 38 Special +P Lead Hollow Point referred to as the FBI Load, since the FBI used it prior to switching to the 147 grain +P+ load, which I believe was its last 38 Special load prior to switching to semi-autos.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:08 PM
ACP230 ACP230 is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan\'s Upper Peninsu
Posts: 3,337
Likes: 207
Liked 1,644 Times in 756 Posts
Default

My snubs are usually loaded with Speer 135 grain JHPs.
My former load was Cor-Bon .38s with the Barnes copper HP bullet.

I switched to the Speers (mostly) because they are supposed to hit
the same point of aim as 158 grainers. The rounds I practice with most are reloads with lead SWCs.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:12 PM
Jonzim's Avatar
Jonzim Jonzim is offline
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 195
Likes: 1,323
Liked 254 Times in 95 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16thVACav View Post
Ditto on the Speer Gold Dot +P 135s. Made for short barrels.
Still another vote for these.
__________________
USN Submarine Service '66-'71
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:14 PM
shouldazagged shouldazagged is offline
Absent Comrade
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 19,336
Likes: 53,737
Liked 38,386 Times in 11,801 Posts
Default

For years I've carried and trusted the Remington version of the FBI load, the 158-grain +P LSWCHP. It has a long and distinguished record of effectiveness (a retired LEO on this forum had to use it twice and can attest that it worked), and of working in two- and four-inch barrels.

Unfortunately the latest Remington loading apparently clocks at lower velocity and less muzzle energy. I like the heavy, soft-lead bullet from a J-frame; so my EDC and K-frame house gun are now loaded with the standard-pressure Buffalo Bore 158-grain LSWCHP-GC--with gas check. It chronographs at virtually identical velocities to the good older Remington load, is safe for any Smith revolver, and offers reduced flash.

If I could find the short-barrel Gold Dot stuff I might try it; but since the sights of most Smith fixed-sight revolvers are regulated for 158-grain projectiles I'm quite happy with the Buffalo Bore stuff.

Their +P version is rated at low-end .357 Magnum velocity, which I no longer shoot due to arthritis. Pretty potent for an alloy-framed gun.
__________________
Oh well, what the hell.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:17 PM
Old cop Old cop is offline
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,785
Likes: 4,208
Liked 15,137 Times in 4,144 Posts
Default

I had to use my revolver more than once during my career and it was loaded w/the old style FBI +P, our issued ammo. It just works and I still carry it in my J frame or Colt Cobra. I'm sure there are others that work just as well but I go with what I know.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:20 PM
CoMF CoMF is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,494
Likes: 474
Liked 1,447 Times in 670 Posts
Default

Hello,

Some good choices include the aforementioned Speer GDSB load, Winchester RA38B/PDX1, and Hornady FTX. The old stalwart LSWCHP +P also works well from a snub (Remington's version in particular), although the latest incarnation of it from their HTP line doesn't seem to work as well as the older Express version. If all else fails, there's also the target wadcutter.

Try all of them out and see which one your DS "likes" the most.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-07-2014, 03:38 PM
vytoland's Avatar
vytoland vytoland is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 5,658
Likes: 15,661
Liked 7,682 Times in 2,744 Posts
Default

148gr - 150gr DEWC @ 800 - 850fps.....will get the job done
__________________
There's nowt so queer as folk
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 07-07-2014, 04:05 PM
Steve C Steve C is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 727
Likes: 1
Liked 133 Times in 93 Posts
Default

Not all jhp defense ammo will work any better than a solid bullet out of a snub nose since you loose 100 fps + at the muzzle over a 4" barrel which is what most of the ammo companies test out of. Currently you pretty much have to use what you can find as the ammo selection is often spotty.

For .38 spl snub nose my choice is Speer 135gr Gold Dot short barrel, .38 spl Remington Golden Sabers, Federal Hydrashoks 129gr and any of the 158gr LSWCHP's all in +P.

Speers short barrel load has been hard to find. Remington Golden Sabers and Federal Hydrashoks are probably the easiest to find.

Winchester PDX1 is quite plentiful and easy to find but after watching some of the tests with it from snub nose revolvers on Youtube I'll only use it in 4" or longer revolvers.

Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135 gr Ammo Test - YouTube
.38 Special +P Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test - YouTube
Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 gr Semiwadcutter Ammo Test - YouTube
Winchester PDX1 Bonded .38 Special +P *** RETEST *** - YouTube
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 07-07-2014, 04:18 PM
Groo01's Avatar
Groo01 Groo01 is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: central ohio
Posts: 1,385
Likes: 949
Liked 826 Times in 488 Posts
Default

Groo here
BB has a 150gr wc hard cast that runs 850 from a snub.
As the nose is flat and full cal, it does not need to expand.....
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 07-07-2014, 04:21 PM
Double B Double B is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 39
Likes: 23
Liked 21 Times in 8 Posts
Default

I use the Federal 129 grain +p for carry and also shoot 125 grain lead loads for practice. I have also used the Golden Sabers on occasion. I like the lighter bullets in the snubs.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 07-07-2014, 04:22 PM
Cal44 Cal44 is online now
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,568
Likes: 5,473
Liked 6,419 Times in 1,861 Posts
Default

The guy who taught the ccw class I just took recommended Hornady Critical Defense. There are 38, 38+p, and 357 versions.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 07-07-2014, 05:52 PM
Jim1392's Avatar
Jim1392 Jim1392 is offline
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 1,043
Liked 1,459 Times in 515 Posts
Default

I carry the Hornady FTX Critical Defense 110 grain in my 642.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 07-07-2014, 06:00 PM
blackpowder blackpowder is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: East of the Mississippi
Posts: 105
Likes: 15
Liked 32 Times in 20 Posts
Default

Thanks a lot for all the inputs.....I just bought a box of speer's 135gr Gold Dot HP short barrel and will see how they work out of my snubby tomorrow.

I hope I won't be sorry I retired my old
silvertips so ungently.........
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PICT0030.jpg (56.1 KB, 77 views)
__________________
QM3
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 07-07-2014, 06:06 PM
W.E.G.'s Avatar
W.E.G. W.E.G. is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 13
Liked 831 Times in 390 Posts
Default

I think you are going to be disappointed with that modern uber-blasty ammo in that old gun.

If you must shoot that stuff in that gun, at least do it the dignity of getting some 158-grain semi-wadcutters (standard velocity), and seeing which ones you shoot best.

If you shoot the bad guy between the shirt-pockets with either load, it won't matter which one it is.

Similarly, if you shoot the bad guy elsewhere than between the shirt-pockets with that gun, it also won't matter which load you used.

For defensive work, I'm for using the ammo around which the gun was designed.
Your 1966 snubnose was not designed around anything uber-blasty.
__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 07-08-2014, 01:56 PM
blackpowder blackpowder is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: East of the Mississippi
Posts: 105
Likes: 15
Liked 32 Times in 20 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.G. View Post
I think you are going to be disappointed with that modern uber-blasty ammo in that old gun.
Ok, just put 12 rds of my new speer gold dot short barrel through my DS and found little or no difference in how the gun behaved compared to shooting the old silvertips. The speers seemed to impact just a bit higher than the silvertips but this can easily be compensated for. I had no way of telling, however, how the bullets behaved after impact.

As for the old gun (which is +P rated and never failed me) I have only one thing to say: What was good enough for Telly "Kojak" Savalas is good enough for me!
__________________
QM3
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-08-2014, 02:17 PM
Old Corp's Avatar
Old Corp Old Corp is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 2,339
Liked 4,673 Times in 1,599 Posts
Default

You don't see it much anymore, but I have stuck away somewhere a couple of boxes of the old Federal 125 gr. 'Nyclad' HP's. They are standard (non+P) and at one time the going wisdom was that they made good snubby SD ammo.
I've never tried or tested them.
__________________
Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:04 PM
W.E.G.'s Avatar
W.E.G. W.E.G. is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 13
Liked 831 Times in 390 Posts
Default

I shot some Nyclads out of my Chief's Special.

Worst accuracy I ever witnessed.

It was as though the polymer coating was just "stripping" through the rifling, and no spin being imparted on the bullet. To shoot the bad guy between the shirt pockets with that stuff, you'd need to be close enough to unbutton his shirt first.
__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:17 PM
LaVistaBill's Avatar
LaVistaBill LaVistaBill is offline
SWCA Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisville, Kentucky Area
Posts: 392
Likes: 730
Liked 979 Times in 184 Posts
Default

I use the lead SWC-HP in .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 Colt; if they expand fine, if they don't the SWC shape will help impart the slugs energy into the target and afford ample penetration. I've seen and done bullet expansion testing, but out of a 2-3" barrel, I don't count on it. My mantra is shot placement...shot placement...shot placement...
__________________
S&WCA #2815
Gun Scribe

Last edited by LaVistaBill; 07-08-2014 at 10:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #23  
Old 07-09-2014, 12:39 AM
Chris642 Chris642 is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Southeast, WI
Posts: 76
Likes: 13
Liked 48 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Carrying Remington UD (aka Golden Saber) 125gr BJHP .38spl+P in my 642 as of now. Appears to be a great round for a short barrel, with excellent and reliable expansion. I'm sticking with this until I'm convinced there's something else as good or better for less money.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-09-2014, 12:58 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is online now
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

It pays to try out all the 38 ammo out there in a snub nose.
You NEVER can tell where it will hit the target and how well
it will group.

Last year I was testing some loads over my chrony and was
surprised at where the bullets struck on the target.

Here is a picture of an outing and a reload with Trail Boss
with a 158 LRN that I use for target practice, since it way slow.
No way can it be used for SD.

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 07-09-2014, 01:24 PM
walnutred walnutred is online now
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,452
Likes: 785
Liked 3,032 Times in 1,002 Posts
Default

I carry 148gn lead wadcutters loaded to 840+/- in my old 3" M37. My wife carries Critical Defense in her Ruger LCR. So there you have both extremes in the same house.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 07-09-2014, 06:54 PM
vahiker83 vahiker83 is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 29
Liked 33 Times in 12 Posts
Default

125gr golden sabre Remington`s
__________________
Using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 07-12-2014, 03:09 AM
s&wbest s&wbest is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 123
Likes: 53
Liked 36 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Shooting a 37 airweight with a combination of hornady critical defense and buffalo bore 150 hardcast wadcutters. Wanted to stay away from +p and combine expansion and penetration with the two. My best modification was removing the old wood grips and replacing with pachmyr.
__________________
CA ban no sharp pencils ovr 3"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 07-12-2014, 09:02 AM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 8,065
Liked 2,994 Times in 883 Posts
Default

My long time load is the Federal 38G, 158gr LSWCHP +P. At 890fps at the muzzle I don't believe it will hazard the owner of any .38 revolver regardless of what material the frame is made from.

For me it tends to shoot to or near to POA in my fixed sight J and K frames (don't recall if I've tried it in my 38/44 HD) I don't find the recoil to be of any consequence.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #29  
Old 07-12-2014, 09:34 AM
flintsghost's Avatar
flintsghost flintsghost is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Frostbite Falls
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 87
Liked 784 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Don't overlook the fact that ammo is in short supply and sometimes these recommendations are based on what they could get. Speer 135 grain short barrel is a great round in both 38 spec and 357 mag. It is optimized for 2" - 3" barrels. But it is really hard to find, especially in 50 rd boxes which is only sold by LEO suppliers. The 20 rd boxes are easier to find but tend to cost nearly as much as the 50 rd. The only supplier I've found who has it a couple times a year is SGA ammo in Oklahoma. The last time they had it a couple of months ago it was $28.50/box of 50 in case lots of 20 boxes or more for .38spec. The last I bought was .357 and it was $29.50/box of 50, last month. Good luck.

Last edited by flintsghost; 07-12-2014 at 09:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 07-12-2014, 10:45 AM
SpeedSkater SpeedSkater is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 16
Likes: 3
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

And what do you all recommend for older .38 Spcls like pre-Model 36 and Targetmasters?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-12-2014, 04:22 PM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 8,065
Liked 2,994 Times in 883 Posts
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedSkater View Post
And what do you all recommend for older .38 Spcls like pre-Model 36 and Targetmasters?
Personally I would use the same load I stated above as I don't believe you would hurt either of the guns you mention by using it.

If you are concerned about using +P you could either limit it to just a few rounds to get familiar with it or get the same LSWCHP in a non+P loading like that offered by Buffalo Bore that states "it won't hurt older/fragile/alloy revolvers".
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-13-2014, 03:16 AM
blackpowder blackpowder is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: East of the Mississippi
Posts: 105
Likes: 15
Liked 32 Times in 20 Posts
Default

Don't forget that before 1970, regular .38spl factory ammo was loaded to much higher pressures than newer ammo. And modern .38spl +P is loaded significantly higher than modern .38spl regular ammo but generally - notwithstanding exceptions - modern +P pressures are about equal to pre 1970 .38spl pressures. So the older guns - even alloy frames - should not have a problem with +P ammo.
__________________
QM3
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-13-2014, 09:56 AM
Waywatcher's Avatar
Waywatcher Waywatcher is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,652
Likes: 1,457
Liked 1,489 Times in 570 Posts
Default

Here's my choice:



135 grain Speer Gold Dot +P. 10 rounds at 7 yards. Shoots to POA at 20 yards and averages 872fps from my snubby--chronographed.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #34  
Old 07-13-2014, 10:06 AM
326MOD10 326MOD10 is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 1,276
Liked 2,245 Times in 765 Posts
Default

In a Plus P .38 or in .357 Magnum I like the Gold Dot ammo made for weapons with short barrels.

In a standard velocity .38 Special I use the Hornady Custom 158 grain XTP. There is a youtube video with some pretty impressive gel test using this ammo.

I also have both the Plus P and standard version of the 110 grain Hornady Critical Defense that I have tried but tend to go with one of the above.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-13-2014, 11:13 AM
Skeptic 9c's Avatar
Skeptic 9c Skeptic 9c is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern Florida
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 4,981
Liked 5,599 Times in 1,016 Posts
Default

The 110 gr. Silvertip is still listed by Winchester and is NOT +p, the 125gr is +p.
Finding that anywhere in this day and age is a matter of checking the usual sources and the stuff is crazy expensive.

Then again, I don't often carry my old Bodyguard much anymore.

Geoff
Who likes flat automatics in the land of spandex and shorts.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-13-2014, 11:44 AM
hangnoose hangnoose is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: W coast central Fl
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 1,426
Liked 1,407 Times in 774 Posts
Default DON'T FORGET THE UNPREDICTABLE FACTOR.

The unpredictable nature of how bullets react & travel when hitting an animal, or the unpredictable nature of some to soak up lead without much affect, while others fall over and die, I wouldn't waste much time overthinking it. Use what you can get & shoot best, and hope "they hit between the pockets".
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-13-2014, 07:47 PM
papa1147 papa1147 is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6
Likes: 2
Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
Default Different Revolvers -- Possibly same Ammo

Good Evening,

For a year or so, I have been carrying a 38 +p 442 airweight and using federal 110 gr hydra shok ammo. This week I came into a very sweet mod 66-2 with a 4" barrel which presented me with decisions on what types of ammo should I have on hand.

The federal ammo is made to give low recoil for 1 7/8" barrel weapons but still kicks pretty good in the airweight.

Without having to carry several kinds of ammo, would the 110 grain hydra shok perform well in the 357 pistol since it has two more inchs of barrel?

I will have more powerful ammo for the 357, but there will be times that both are carried together thus my wanting to have similar ammo and the recoil of the model 442 airweight is my limiting factor.

I conceal carry these weapons for self defense. If you have other suggestions please feel free to enlighten me.

Thanks,

Papa
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-13-2014, 09:34 PM
Waywatcher's Avatar
Waywatcher Waywatcher is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,652
Likes: 1,457
Liked 1,489 Times in 570 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa1147 View Post
Good Evening,

For a year or so, I have been carrying a 38 +p 442 airweight and using federal 110 gr hydra shok ammo. This week I came into a very sweet mod 66-2 with a 4" barrel which presented me with decisions on what types of ammo should I have on hand.

The federal ammo is made to give low recoil for 1 7/8" barrel weapons but still kicks pretty good in the airweight.

Without having to carry several kinds of ammo, would the 110 grain hydra shok perform well in the 357 pistol since it has two more inchs of barrel?

I will have more powerful ammo for the 357, but there will be times that both are carried together thus my wanting to have similar ammo and the recoil of the model 442 airweight is my limiting factor.

I conceal carry these weapons for self defense. If you have other suggestions please feel free to enlighten me.

Thanks,

Papa
The Gold Dot load I mentioned above is a good load in both snubbies and 4 inch barrels; borne true by both street results and gelatin testing. My second choice is a 158 grain lead hollow point at +P velocity. My third choice, or my choice if recoil is a substantial factor is a 148 grain wadcutter as hard as possible and as fast as possible (like Buffalo Bore).

The 110 grain hydra shok, in .38 special, have been under-performers in the tests I've seen.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:30 AM
CTG_COLLECTOR CTG_COLLECTOR is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 620
Likes: 79
Liked 282 Times in 164 Posts
Default

Stick with what has been used and proven to work in the real world: 158SWCHP+P by Rem, Fed or Win, Speer 125+P/135+P GDHP, Rem 125+P Golden Saber, the new Win 125+P STHP or Win 130+P PDX.

Hornady's FTX is completely unproven on the streets.

ALL solid bullet designs in 38Spl have proven to be OVER PENETRATIVE in real shootings. Don't walk but RUN AWAY from using even WC and SWC bullets in this caliber.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:52 AM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

I trust only 3 loads for SD and I use them all with different revolvers because of accuracy.

I like Winchester Silvertip +P, Speer Short Barrel Gold Dot +P and the FBI Load.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-14-2014, 11:01 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is online now
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

ArchAngelCD;

Could you tell me what bullet weight that silver tip is and what velocity you are getting out of what length barrel?

I tried them in my 38 snub nose.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-14-2014, 11:09 AM
blackpowder blackpowder is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: East of the Mississippi
Posts: 105
Likes: 15
Liked 32 Times in 20 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I like Winchester Silvertip +P, Speer Short Barrel Gold Dot +P and the FBI Load.
Yes, I would also like some details about the silvertips. Truth is, I just shot them up because I thought they don't cut the mustard anymore. I am looking around for a more up to date replacement.

You think the silvertips are still up there with the new stuff - performance wise ??
__________________
QM3
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:23 PM
TenTea's Avatar
TenTea TenTea is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: FEMA Region V
Posts: 578
Likes: 1,442
Liked 760 Times in 304 Posts
Default

Hornady Critical Defense

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #44  
Old 07-14-2014, 01:03 PM
JohnHancock's Avatar
JohnHancock JohnHancock is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 104
Likes: 262
Liked 53 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Just to add to the discussion, I've also been doing some informal experimentation with various defense ammo. This past weekend I had a chance to do some shooting and compared some of the aforementioned brands. I've been carrying the popular Speer Gold Dot 135 +p, but wanted to do some comparisons with the Georgia Arms Speer "Unicore" 125 gr. +p as well as the controversial Buffalo Bore +p "FBI" load. As some have mentioned the BB was a handful, but performed well. I will say that Speer rounds performed a little better on follow up shots, particularly the GA Arms 125 gr.+p. Some have said they believe that GA Arms +p is a little weak compared to some of the name brand +p, and that might be the case as I don't believe that the 10 grain difference between the two would have much noticeable difference in perceived recoil. I was just shooting at an indoor range and was not chrono-ing or using ballistics gel, so no word on muzzle energy or expansion, just general observation. I'd love to see some formal comparisons, but don't have the means to conduct it. The only ballistics test video on YouTube is the GA Arms Speer Unicore 9mm +p, which expanded well in a "milk jug" test.

Last edited by JohnHancock; 07-14-2014 at 01:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-14-2014, 04:16 PM
Me239 Me239 is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Liked 80 Times in 23 Posts
Default

I love my 158 SWC-HP that I handload. If you don't load, get Remington 158 grain SWC-HP +P. They're the only FBI loads (besides Buffalo Bore) that I know reliably expand.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-14-2014, 05:18 PM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
ArchAngelCD;

Could you tell me what bullet weight that silver tip is and what velocity you are getting out of what length barrel?

I tried them in my 38 snub nose.
I'm sorry but I have never sent the 125gr Silvertips over a chrono. To be truthful I have not used them in a while either.

From a 2" J frame (actually 1.875") shooting the 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo I get an AV of 922 fps. That sounds a little high but that's what my records from 2007 show.
The 135gr Speer load is rated @860 fps on their site. The 125gr SliverTips are rated @945 fps from a 4" vented barrel. I would guess the velocity of the Silvertips would be at least as good as the Gold Dots. Granted the 135gr bullet from Speer is designed to expand at lower velocities than the Silvertips but since the Silvertips have a higher velocity rating than the Gold dots I'm sure they will also expand. At least all the tests I see on the Internet say they do.

As for the FBI Load, they have over 50 years of performing in the field and I'm sure there are no doubts if they perform or not.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-15-2014, 12:23 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is online now
US Veteran
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

Good, Good..............

a 125gr Silver Tip !!

I tried several Remington old style SJHP in my snub but they
give all kinds of different results in penetration, expansion and
accuracy. One day they work the next they are terrible!!

I use them now for just target loads, even though I did get them up to 890 and 903 in the snub nose J frame.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-19-2014, 06:12 AM
s&wbest s&wbest is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 123
Likes: 53
Liked 36 Times in 27 Posts
Default

I like the dependable expansion of the speer gold dot ammunition. It may be my go to round of the future. I wonder why the detectives of past remark on wad cutter dependability. I am not talking target loads but buffalo bore hard cast 150gr. low flash standard pressure. With Golden Saber having jacket separation problems and Pdx1 not expanding from short barrels and over penetrating the thought of a couple of rounds of a dependable hole puncher with a devistating wound capability makes sense to me. Putting all my eggs in one basket is only as good as the basket. Corbon would be a great option if i thought my old airweight would stay in one peice. I would use it as a ankle carried backup to a 40 shield. I like the dependability of a revolver but realize the firepower and ease of reload in an auto is my main ccw. Group confrontation is getting to be more of my concern than just a one on one robbery. I will continue to upgrade my weapons but for now I want to make best use of what I have by taking advise of those who have real life experience.
__________________
CA ban no sharp pencils ovr 3"
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-24-2014, 05:24 PM
Sylvaticus Sylvaticus is offline
Member
.38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies .38special self defence ammo for snubbies  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 41
Likes: 19
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Default Three choices

In my CCW classes, I have in recent years recommended these choices for .38 Special. It is my cartridge of choice for civilians in a 2" to 4" small or medium frame revolver , esp. for those (most!) who will not be engaging in much practice. I have favored load #2 since the 1970s.
1. Speer 135-gr GD short barrel load +P
2. Federal, Rem or Win 158-gr LSWCHP "FBI" +P
3. Major manufacturer 148 LWC, a compromise round for those unable to handle and qualify with either of the above.

In many instances, the issue isn't with load as much as being a failure to recognize that a lightweight, small frame snub nose isn't a handgun for novices!

Yes, there might be still other choices from smaller ammo outfits, but few of my students will take the time to find them.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Defence Ammo for a M&P Shield 9mm UncleWiggily Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 44 04-12-2017 03:20 PM
Personel Defence ammo garddogg56 Ammo 22 01-03-2017 03:56 PM
I picked up some Shotgun Home defence ammo George9 Ammo 17 04-17-2013 04:05 PM
Question about .38Special ammo Tyrod S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 9 10-29-2011 05:07 PM
.40 cal self defence ammo MikeSW99 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 22 03-08-2009 10:01 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:23 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)