I have come across a little problem. I just picked up a Smith & Wesson 66-2 4" and I have been reading that I need to be very careful about the ammunition I feed it due to potential damage to the forcing cone.

I have what I feel is the perfect round for this gun, the Winchester Silvertip. The problem is I only have 10 rounds of it and I cannot find it anywhere online.

My second choice is looking like Speer Gold Dot 158gr. It looks like a good fit for this gun's requirements of staying right around 1200 fps.

What do the rest of you who own one of these use in yours? Also, can you recommend a practice round for this gun as well? Thanks folks.

Most of the cautions with K frame 357 Magnums relate specifically to the use of 125gr 357 magnums. There's a lot of debate about this point, even, with some arguments being made that lead build-up in the forcing cone can also be a contributing(or the main) factor. The arguments behind 125grs being a problem are that they 1. impact the forcing cone at higher velocity and 2. "seal" the barrel/cylinder gap for a shorter amount of time, allowing for more gas cutting and erosion of the forcing cone area.

As I recall, Silvertips are 140gr so should not cause any problems, and of course your Gold Dots are 158gr so you should be fine with either.

I regularly carry a Performance Center model 19 and I stoke it primarily with three 125 grain rounds; Buffalo Bore tactical, Golden Sabre and (when I can find it) Corbon DPX. All of these out of the three inch PC 19 have what I consider to be comfortable recoil and good mid range velocity and energy. The problem you referred to was noticed when a steady diet of the full house barn burning 125's were used. Those are borderline uncomfortable to shoot to me in a k frame anyway. I save those for my GP100 and 357 lever action. Bear in mind when the k frame was developed in was in the vein of carried a lot and shot little. As long as you stick with a "mid range" you should not have any forcing cone problems with the 125"s. I have three model 19's and have noticed no problems with any of them. Just cause you carry a magnum doesn't mean you have to use those rounds in the high end of the spectrum.

The Internet has GREATLY exaggerated this issue.

The tiny number of cracked forcing cones that has occurred is just a fraction of a percent of the millions of K-frame 357 Magnums that have produced.

I can not recall seeing more then one. It was in a class.

Even if you buy one and it cracks in 5 or 10 or 20 years.....SO WHAT?

Is there any other product on the planet that people hesitate to buy because they are afraid it will not last FOREVER?

True you can't call S&W and have them put a new barrel on. However, you can find a used replacement barrel from shooter grade to LN on Gunbroker or eBay with a little searching and patience. You can even find NOS barrels in many old gun shops and parts houses. There are plenty of replacement barrels around today.

Odds are it will be decades before they can't be found any longer.

BTW, if this were a COMMON PROBLEM wouldn't we have a better handle on WHY it happens. We don't have that clear picture because the instances are so rare and usually learned of second or third hand without actual examination of the specific firearm

To the OP, AdamSean: AS to a recommendation for a practice .357 load, I use Blazer .357Mag 158gr JHP. Not as hot as other 1

58s, another poster reported 990fps in 3" bbl. BTW, I use this load in my "house" 66s.

As to the forcing cone question, like Colt SAA, I think we're flogging an awfully dead horse. In the 70s, magazine writers told us the 110gr .357 was a good load for short 2.5" bbls as it produced a reasonable velocity in them for bullet expansion. It was also cited as suitable for medium frame guns as follow up shots with this load were easier than with 125gr and 158gr loads.

Now we read that the short bearing surface of 110gr bullets allows hot powder gasses to erode the forcing cone...

Frankly, I think we'd all be better off buying (or loading) whatever ammo we choose and just shoot it as we wish. BTW, ANY sincere question is to be respected and answered as well as possible. It's just that I can't live in fear that something might happen.

AdamSean: Good shooting and try that Blazer load. Think you'll like it.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Well, you bought a great handgun. I bought mine in the early 80s and have shot and carried it a lot. I handload for mine, but if I didn't I'd buy something like the 158 grain .357 Blazer jhp for practice (quite mild) of maybe even plain lead 38 Specials (wadcutters or 158 grainers).

I use 145 grain .357 WW Silvertips in my 2 1/2" Model 19 and like them a lot. Handgun ammo is getting much more available in the last month -- so keep checking around for Silvertips (I saw some 125 grain 38 Special Silvertips yesterday).

My 66-2 carry load uses a handloaded 140 grain Nosler bullet; which my gun likes.

Hey Larry, that can't be a 30-year old gun, can it? A gun that you carry and shoot a lot? Look brand new to me, sir. Nice gun.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. See you also like the Blazer .357 load.

OP:

You'll wear out, or experience a firearm related accident, long before your revolver will have a problem.

Fine revolver: don't worry about it!!

Or, if you have so little confidence in it, I'll buy it from you for what you paid.

The more I research this issue, the more comfortable I feel about using the 125gr loads. Just practice with the 158gr .38s and .357s an I can carry anything 125 and up. After all, it is unlikely I will ever need to fire a 125gr out of it.

Still hoping that I can find some Silvertips. They are still listed on Winchester's website, but nobody has them anywhere. I hope they are still making them.

Larry from Bend, that is a beautiful firearm. I have no idea how old mine really is, but it looks great.

I have 2 revolvers that shoot the 145gr Winchester Silvertips like lasers. I could not find any for about a year and a half. It seems Winchester does a run every 2 years so you will have to wait about a year before they become available in quantity again. I left email reminders on several sites and when they became available I bought a few boxes. I wanted to buy more but at $50/box I could only buy a few.

Any .357 Magnum ammo with 158gr bullet are just fine for practice and you can carry the 125gr ammo. Just be sure to make the sight adjustments from the heavier practice ammo to the lighter carry ammo. The Speer ammo is very good ammo all be it expensive. When I ran out of Silvertips I was carrying Gold Dot ammo.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I would try some moderate power loads, like the Speer Gold Dot short barrel 357 or the Remington Golden Saber 357. They are on the power range of 9mm +p or a bit more. You can expect about 1250 fps for the Remington GS.

No K frame is able to take a steady diet of hot rounds. What I have SEEN but not experienced myself is that the flat under the forcing cone can crack especially with light bullets and hot loads. Even without the forcing cone cracking the revolver will wear more rapidly and loosen up with hot loads. The thing to do is shoot normal loads, and if you want to shoot a few hot ones, make it the 158 grain.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I once sent a 65 in for service. Cylinder was binding. When the s&w armorer called me he asked me if I shoot 357 out if it. I tell him rarely, usually just 38 with the occasional cylinder of 357. He told me better to never do it since they have no more 357 barrels. This was coming from s&w directly

I think the guy was being over cautious, but the fact remains the k frame magnum has it's limits

I don't think that is correct. Back when the ammo manufacturers were switching over from lead bullet to jacketed bullet it was those jacketed bullets that were doing the damage. It wasn't all jacketed bullets either, it was the lighter 125gr bullets slamming against the forcing cone at warp speed that were the culprits. You can shoot all the commercial 145gr and 158gr .357 Magnum ammo you can afford in a K frame and you will not damage your revolver.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

In a M66 (or other K Frames) I will usually shoot .38 Specials that I hand load. When I am in the woods and am carrying for SD against animals (4 legged ones) I will use Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast semi wad-cutter .357 Magnums. IMHO there is no better out of a .357 for animals. While you should shoot a few for familiarization and POA/POI I would limit their use in a K frame just as I would for any .357's. The K's will do fine with occasional Magnum use but I would not shoot them on any regular basis - - that's why I own L and N frames.

There is a reason that S&W ignored the issue (it was their baby after all) and blacklisted some gun writers who dared report on this problem with the K frame magnums. The K frame although a wonderful platform for the .38 Special and lesser cartridges just couldn't handle a steady diet of magnums. This the reason the L frame was born. I have four vintage M-19's and one M-66 and since they no longer make them I just don't take the chance on full house magnum loads in them. If factory ammo is used it's a plus P .38 Special. With my reloads I pretty much stick to 158gr cast bullets around the 1,150fps range. For full zoot boomers my L and N frames are up. Is this right and proper, who knows but it makes me feel better about the whole thing.

__________________
Stay safe people!

Time for some facts:

Use of Magnum Loads in S&W Model 19 and Other K-Frame Magnums

One of the facts in that article that is not a fact is that Smith and Wesson adopted a "new" method of installing the barrels in the early 1980's called "Crush Fitting". In fact, that was actually PR in action. All one piece barrels are crush fit whether they are pinned or not. When Smith eliminated the "pinned " barrel, this story was spread in order to assure customers. The fact is that pinned barrels have their threads timed so that the barrel is hand tight (can no longer be turned by hand without tools) when the barrel is 60 to 90 degrees before reaching top dead center. At that point, the barrel is tightened the rest of the way with a special frame wrench, etc. until it comes up on top dead center and then the pin is installed. If you thought that the barrel just spun into the frame and the pin was then inserted to keep the barrel from backing out-guess again. In reality, a crush fit barrel just doesn't have the flat on the barrel shank, the hole in the frame and the pin. Nothing else changed although it is true that after Smith's quality continued to erode after the pin was deleted, some barrel were over-torqued and THAT did cause issues. Anyway, if you use magnum loads with bullets between 140 and 170 grains, you shouldn't have any issues with crack or eroded forcing cones or frame cracks. Timing and end shake issues, that's a different story.

I cannot speak to what Smith advises for the re-issued guns because the have the wonderful 2-piece barrel system, I do believe. That said, Smith and Wesson advised against using the 110 and 125 grain magnum loads in the original K-frame .357's for a reason. In response to this, the L-frame guns were developed. If you happen to think they did this because there actually was no real problem and the just needed to find work for their engineeering dept. you are in denial big time. At the time, Smith absolutely dominated the LE market and the K-Frame .357's were the dominant guns. The 1970's were the time of ammo companies such as Super-Vel also. The big companies rushed to catch up with their own ultra high velocity, low bullet weight ammo as well. Many depts. starting issuing the 110 grain and especially the 125 grain ammo instead of previously "standard" 158 grain stuff and, when this happened, Smith began hearing about and seeing large numbers of damaged guns. As a matter of fact, it is not unusual to find a K-Frame .357 with an eroded or cracked barrel or frame to this day. Was the problem overstated-not hardly.

The K-Frame .357's, especially the Model 19's and Model 66's are wonderful guns to carry and shoot as I understand it. However, they were designed with the LE market in mind where practice was done with .38 Specials and use with full power ammo would supposedly be limited to qualifying and on duty shoots. That after all was what Bill Jordan was looking for when he pitched his ideas to Smith & Wesson. These guns in a way were the precursor's of today's scandium guns in that they are great to carry but for lots of shooting with full power ammo-not so much.

Bruce

Hold on a minute. I'm out of pop corn.

Bob

When Jordan's "shoot it with 38, carry it with 357" went (rightfully) out the window, some of the guns couldn't handle the added stress.

I have personally seen two model 19's with cracked forcing cones. The first was at a mom and pop gun store where this jackwagon didn't know what to look for and had it out for sale.

The second was when I became a range instructor at my department, and had access to the gun room. Back in the day, my department issued the model 19, and one gun had the cracked forcing cone, therefore couldn't be traded in when we went to 686's.

Few know that Ruger resorted to machining a flat as well on some models:

"...At Ruger, revolvers were assembled with a proprietary lubricant similar to Militec to help prevent the lead from binding. Applying a few drops of Mil-L-63460B (Break Free CLP) in the crane arbor each time you clean also helps. Ruger developed a "hubbed cylinder" version of the Security Six, Speed Six and Service Six revolvers to mitigate the binding problem.

This required milling a small flat across the barrel extension, which protrudes into the frame opening at the 6:00 position, to clear the hub on the cylinder. Machining the flat reduces the cross section though the barrel extension, which caused heat cracking problems when those revolvers were shot extensively with .357 Magnum ammunition. The hubbed cylinder was used only for law enforcement contracts for revolvers to be fitted with .38 Special cylinders when the lead +P ammo was specified.

In designing the GP100 revolvers, the charge hole spacing, and distance from the bore to cylinder axis was increased so that the cylinder gas ring could be incorporated without reducing barrel wall thickness through the exposed forcing cone region..."

Ed Harris: Revisiting The Full Charge Wadcutter | Reloading, Ammunition, Hunting | GrantCunningham.com