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11-20-2014, 03:51 PM
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.45 Long Colt and other misnomers
An interesting thread on certain guns included a discussion on the term ".45 Long Colt" and one poster correctly explained, in part, the history of how that term developed.
So, I'll make a bold statement and then let's see what happens.
.45 Long Colt never existed historically.
Back in the day, which would be late 19th century, there was the .45 Schofield, and there might have been other .45 calibers available but I'd have to research that. When the Colt Single Action Army/SAA/Peacemaker appeared in 1873, chambered for the .45 Colt, it was NOT known as the .45 Long Colt. However, people being people, and Soldiers being Soldiers (since the US Army did stock ammunition of .45 Schofield and .45 Colt), in order to distinguish the caliber from .45 Schofield, when they discussed the caliber the name Long Colt crept in. Then they used that term when they bought it, even if the ammo boxes were marked .45 Colt. It became an interchangeable term with .45 Colt simply through usage.
Then, along came the .45 ACP, a fat, stubby thing quite different looking from the elegant appearance of .45 Colt cartridges. Now, the Army might have been done with the SAA and the .45 Colt but America sure wasn't so, again, one was long, one was short, the moniker Long Colt continued to be used to distinguish the two.
I daresay the term was popular for many years BEFORE the middle of the 20th century but as mass communication and mass marketing grew there were ammunition manufacturers who found it convenient to call their .45 Colt ammunition by the colloquial name of .45 Long Colt. Purists eschew the term .45 Long Colt. Heck, I'm not that big a purist and I don't like the term my own self.
However, since it is used officially on some manufacturers' ammunition boxes, I think we're okay just letting bygones be bygones and not concerning ourselves about it.
Next misnomer I shall discuss the overall misuse of the word "impact" - as soon as the Forum has a column for grammar and such.......
***GRJ***
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11-20-2014, 03:59 PM
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I hope someday to have my life in such good order that things like "45 Long Colt" bother me.
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11-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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It’s hard to get my feathers ruffled over any Colt product being referred to by a less than perfect term. On the other hand, anyone who calls the wood on a S&W a grip should be immediately keel hulled across the forum’s barnacled bottom with the ropes stretched tight.
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11-20-2014, 04:33 PM
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So do I have a Colt 45? Or is that a beer?
David
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11-20-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
So do I have a Colt 45? Or is that a beer?
David
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It's the first name of the Houston Astros.
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11-20-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
So do I have a Colt 45? Or is that a beer?
David
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If you cannot tell the difference it’s definitely the beer (way too much beer!)
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11-20-2014, 05:12 PM
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Hey, k22fan, that's "keel hauled".....jus' sayin'.....
Funny thing is, some guys were all over this in the thread I stole the idea from. Did they comment here? Nope.....
***GRJ***
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11-20-2014, 05:45 PM
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Nit picky morons who make a big deal out of this should find something to do.
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11-20-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan
On the other hand, anyone who calls the wood on a S&W a grip should be immediately keel hulled across the forum’s barnacled bottom with the ropes stretched tight.
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Now that's strange, S&W calls them grips on their own web-site.
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11-20-2014, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda
An interesting thread on certain guns included a discussion on the term ".45 Long Colt" and one poster correctly explained, in part, the history of how that term developed.
So, I'll make a bold statement and then let's see what happens.
***GRJ***
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I think you would be wrong
Obviously would would not need to name something the xxxLONG unless a xxxSHORT already existed or the other way around.
While it is true that in 1872 when the cartridge was first conceived it was named the 45 Colt. There is however much historical basis for the 45 Long Colt name over the past 80 years now.
We need to go back to just before World War I when Remington introduced the 45 Short Colt aka 45 Government. This is not the .45 Schofield. The .45 Schofield has a different rim diameter than the other two 45 cartridges.
If you look in a copy of Cartridges of the World you can learn more than what is in my short post here.
Ammunition boxes were labeled with one of the two names, but both were available. The 45 Colt and 45 Short Colt have exactly the same case dimensions with the exception of length as can be seen in the photo below.
Just as the 45 Long Colt is simply headstamped 45 Colt, as can be seen in the following photograph, 45 Short Colt was also headstamped 45 Colt.
The 45 Short Colt cartridge was produced in large quantities until sometime after World War I. It would not have been unusual for a man to walk into the General Store back then and wanting to buy box of 45s and have the store clerk ask "Long or Short?"
While the 45 Short Colt is no longer on the shelves of our local emporiums and it is no longer necessary to use the word Long when asking for 45 Colt ammunition some of us just like the sound of it. You know nostalgic.
Last edited by colt_saa; 11-20-2014 at 06:19 PM.
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11-20-2014, 06:21 PM
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coltsaa, you nailed it down. Took the words right out of my mouth and backed it up.
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11-20-2014, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM 3200
Now that's strange, S&W calls them grips on their own web-site.
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Any chance "grips" was typed there by someone young enough to know how to set up a website? The last time I went to "S&W Days" at a LGS the handsome young factory rep didn't know what a 28 was. He was mostly there to sell case flingers so that was O.K., but if he'd uttered "grips" the store owner would have marched him off the gang plank at the tip of a saber. When their crime is heinous Captain Gorilla tries even young juveniles as adults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda
Hey, k22fan, that's "keel hauled".....jus' sayin'.....
Funny thing is, some guys were all over this in the thread I stole the idea from. Did they comment here? Nope.....
***GRJ***
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Yup. Webster likes "keel'hauled". What can I say? Keels and hulls usually go together.
You got good stuff from colt_saa who, judging from his screen name, likely knows a lot about old .45 ctgs. The thread is still young. Be patient.
Last edited by k22fan; 11-20-2014 at 06:51 PM.
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11-20-2014, 06:39 PM
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Just to keep it simple there is the .45 Colt and the .45 Schofield. Indeed one is longer than the other. Now on to my favorite peeve, the use of the word "bullet" to describe a complete cartridge. Call it "ammo" or "rounds" or "cartridges" if you will but its not "bullets"! A bullet is a component. Ok, I for one feel better now. And yes I do have more time on my hands than is good for me!
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11-20-2014, 06:41 PM
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Well, look at it this way: at the end of the day, it's dark.
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11-20-2014, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan Bob
Just to keep it simple there is the .45 Colt and the .45 Schofield. Indeed one is longer than the other. Now on to my favorite peeve,
the use of the word "bullet" to describe a complete cartridge. Call it "ammo" or "rounds" or "cartridges" if you will but its not "bullets"! A bullet is a component. Ok, I for one feel better now. And yes I do have more time on my hands than is good for me!
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I'm in agreement, but the idiots that refer to bullets as "boolits" send me over the edge.
And what about Leupold scopes? A whole lot of people pronounce it Lee uh pold when the correct pronunciation is Loo pold.
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11-20-2014, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7
I'm in agreement, but the idiots that refer to bullets as "boolits" send me over the edge.
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Ok, guilty as charged! We bullet casters do use the term "boolits" to indicate a home cast bullet rather than a commercially bought bullet. And yes, I do wear a pointy cap whilst casting!
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11-20-2014, 07:18 PM
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Well, I apologize for using the term "idiots"
That one always got under my skin for some reason.
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11-20-2014, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7
Well, I apologize for using the term "idiots"
That one always got under my skin for some reason.
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Ralph7, no insult taken, my reply was a bit "tongue in cheek"! If you did not know the context of the term used by some, it does sound like something used by the ball cap backwards and baggy pants crowd.
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11-20-2014, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
So do I have a Colt 45? Or is that a beer?
David
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You could have both!
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11-20-2014, 07:57 PM
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As a long time .45 Colt fan, I have to admit that this is a pet peeve of mine as well. However, I try not to let it take up too much of my time.
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11-20-2014, 07:58 PM
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The .45 Long Colt must exist, as I once owned this one:
I sold it, so now only own a regular ".45 Colt" as in the 25-7.
Well, that's enough "gasoline on the fire"
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11-20-2014, 09:36 PM
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I am more concerned about the shortage of"22 Rifle Longs" as I hear more often than I would like.Recently checking out of a new Gander Mountain I found some 22Long Rifle and was asked were they for a rifle or pistol.I lied and said pistol thinking I may have to answer more stupid questions.
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11-20-2014, 09:57 PM
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Well if you want to get plumb nitpicky about cartridge names, Even most manufactuers have quit using the proper name for the Colt Super 38 Automatic.
So, anybody up for a good 'ol "Clip" debate?
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11-21-2014, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armenius
I am more concerned about the shortage of"22 Rifle Longs" as I hear more often than I would like.Recently checking out of a new Gander Mountain I found some 22Long Rifle and was asked were they for a rifle or pistol.I lied and said pistol thinking I may have to answer more stupid questions.
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In New york when buying ammo,if you say pistol, they ask for Permit. Its the same for powder.
Caballas had CCI 22 LONG in stock. But no long rifles.
David
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11-21-2014, 10:17 AM
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My pet peeve is when people use "caliber" when referring to a cartridge.
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