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  #1  
Old 11-23-2014, 05:52 PM
Cal44 Cal44 is offline
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Default Thermo nuclear 357 magnum

I ordered some Armscor 125 grain 357 magnum ammo because I wanted some practice with full boat 357 magnum.

Maybe I made a mistake and ended up with the most nuclear powered ammo out there.

The manufactures specs read:

Muzzle Velocity: 1,875fps
Muzzle Energy: 984ft/lbs

I read some posts saying shooters thought it had the largest muzzle blast of any 357 magnum they have ever used.

I was planning to use it in my GP-100 4" and my 6" 28-2, but maybe I shouldn't use it in the n-frame.

I figure if I have trouble with the Ruger, I can send it back to the mother ship because I bought the gun new. But the 25-2 would cost me money to repair.

Maybe I'll try it in my Henry Big-Boy lever gun also.

Has anyone used this stuff?
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:20 PM
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1875fps?? I know that is what they list, but the most I have ever seen was a compressed load of win 296 over 125gr SJHP, 6" k frame and that was consistently 1500 +/-. I have not fired this load, But I have shot their ammo without problem. Fire-Balls are more dependent on barrel length and type of powder than the quantity. I have never seen a 357 that would 1800-1900 fps from a 6" handgun. Show me the chony results, because, what it felt like, looked like, sounded like are all subjective and are an educated guess at best. If you do get 1800 out of the 4", I want some of their powder. Just like buffalo bore advertises +p 44 magnums & 40 S&W if you read the small print it states- all loads are with in SAAMI limit. BB is not going to blow up your gun regardless of the advertising hype. Shoot,Enjoy!! Be Safe,
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:30 PM
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I'm not a reloader and don't own a chrony, but that velocity seems impossible out of a .357 revolver. Maybe it's a typo, or maybe that's the velocity for a .357 rifle, like a Marlin leveraction.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:39 PM
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I really hate it when some boutique loader tests their ammo out of a 10" test barrel and uses THAT chrono data for their ads. FOR SHAME!

You aren't going to get anywhere NEAR that speed out of a real gun, certainly not one with a BC gap and a 4" barrel.
And remember, all that powder burning in the THREE FOOT FIREBALL in front of your barrel does not affect the target or your gun.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:44 PM
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enjoy, thats a hot load

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Old 11-23-2014, 06:47 PM
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I think they use a 10" test barrel for the numbers.

The true velocity number out of a 4" barrel is probably in line with other manufacturers.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:51 PM
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I did find one post on another site by a user that claimed he chrono'ed it at 1600 fps out of a 6" 686.

Still sounds hot, but more realistic.

The must have used a 10" test barrel for specs.

I bet it will be something out of a 20" Carbine.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:36 PM
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I just sent an email to Armscor since 1875 is very, very unlikely out of 4-6" revolver. Be Safe,
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal44 View Post
I did find one post on another site by a user that claimed he chrono'ed it at 1600 fps out of a 6" 686.
Still sounds hot, but more realistic.
The must have used a 10" test barrel for specs.
I bet it will be something out of a 20" Carbine.
I call BS, maybe filled with a compressed Bullseye load ( never seen one) and only one round since the gun would have become pieces!! Be Safe,
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:23 PM
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I can get 1500 + fps with SR 4756 and 2400 out of my 686 6"
with 98% loads..........

1800 + fps has to be out of a rifle or as mentioned a 10" test barrel, I would think.

What ever the fps.............. the company HAS to keep their loads within the pressure limits, to stay out of the courts.

A few companies might "Fudge" a little on their data to sell their ammo.......... you just have to read the fine print or look for the (*) some where on the box.

Good shooting.
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:54 PM
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If you look at the little ammo booklet S&W used to put in boxes with the guns, there was one .357 load that went 2001 FPS. Wishful thinking from S&W trying to sell ammo. Joe
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:19 AM
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That's faster than most of the 357 MAXIMUM loads I've seen from a pistol.

Long barrel, misprint, or cow pies... Pick one.
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Old 11-25-2014, 12:01 PM
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BEWARE.

A while back I bought a 50 round box of Armscor 125 grain FMJ .357 magnum ammo to hopefully provide cheaper training for Federal 357B (a hot round) but what I got was .38 special recoil and muzzle blast. I was VERY disappointed. If they are still loading the ammo this way, I'm sure you will be disappointed to when you touch some of this stuff off. That velocity number is either from a rifle or an elongated test barrel, because I can assure you the stuff I shot probably wasn't getting over 1200 FPS from my 6" Ruger GP100.

OP, when you shoot this load please report back describing it's power, and if you have a chrono that would be great because I was very much NOT impressed with this load when I shot it.

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Old 11-25-2014, 08:32 PM
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Default Though the lighter bullets are fun...

I do prefer a heavier bullet in .357 that can be loaded hot but just not get nearly that velocity.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:45 AM
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For a brief time Atomic Ammunition was selling a very warm .357 158 grain JHP. (Now they only carry a 158 grain Nosler.) It was every bit of 1400 fps out of my 686. YMMV
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipermd View Post
I just sent an email to Armscor since 1875 is very, very unlikely out of 4-6" revolver. Be Safe,
11/28/2014- No response to my email to Armscor about testing protocol. Have you gotten any of it and fired it?? Be Safe,
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Old 11-29-2014, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal44 View Post
I was planning to use it in my GP-100 4" and my 6" 28-2, but maybe I shouldn't use it in the n-frame.

I figure if I have trouble with the Ruger, I can send it back to the mother ship because I bought the gun new. But the 28-2 would cost me money to repair.
If Armscor is a SAAMI compliant manufacturer the ammo will not damage your S&W N frame.Here is what is happening. Most large companies like Remington and Winchester have been loading anemic ammo for a long time so when a company comes along and loads the ammo where is should be, everyone thinks it's "A HOT LOAD". In reality it's what we should be getting from all manufacturers. BTW, the N frame is a very strong revolver and could handle .357 Magnum ammo that's over 35,000 PSI if you shot it.
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Old 11-29-2014, 08:54 AM
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I am a reloader with a chronograph and I have actually tried a well stoked load featuring H110 and a 125 grain Hornady XTP. The load used 21.5 grains of powder, which was 1/2 grain under the Lyman's maximum. As for why, a matter of curiosity after reading about a 125 grain 1400 fps 357 Magnum being the finest one shot man stopper ever created. As for velocity, 1450 fps out of my 4 inch model 620. It also featured a muzzle blast an estimated 4 feet in diameter and about 8-10 feet in length. In addition the load was LOUDER than a S&W model 500. As a result I called it the HMFBMEAR 357 Magnum, for Holy Muzzle Flash Batman My Ears Are Ringing. Yeah, doubled up on hearing protection as normal and the load was loud enough to ring my ears for about a half hour.

Now, a couple of points. That chronograph data was with the chronograph 25 feet downrange, because I knew this load would have a lot of muzzle flash. It's also one single reading, because the other 4 loads spewed enough debris down range to cause false readings of more than 2500 fps. Second, I know from other chronograph testing that my 620 has a "slow" barrel, typically about 75-150 fps slower than my 6 inch Dan Wesson.

As for harm, all loads extracted easily and showed no signs of over pressure. However, on cleaning the 620 there was noticeable gas cutting on the top strap from just 15 rounds fired. Not enough to be considered damage in any way but enough I won't repeat the experiment. I now load those 125 Grain XTP's with 10.0 grains of Accurate #5 at much more sedate 1200 fps. from the 620 and 1320 fps from the Dan Wesson.

Conclusions.

First, 1875 fps. from a 125 grain bullet in a revolver is NOT at all possible. I have a 357 Magnum load using a 140 grain XTP that routinely clocks 1875 fps. but it's from a 20 inch Rifle. At a guess a 16 inch Rossi M92 was used to generate these numbers, not a Revolver of any description.

Second, I believe those reports of 1400 fps. 125 grain 357 Magnum loads being the best manstopper ever invented are Urban Myth. Because these loads are Hearing Destroyers and there isn't a Police Agency anywhere that would permit the use of a load that puts their officers on Lifetime Disability with just one single incident of use. Yeah, they would be that loud. My estimated is that 1450 fps load I cooked up probably exceeded 165 Decibels. At an indoor range they are the loudest load I have EVER heard.

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Old 11-29-2014, 09:41 AM
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Years ago, I was loading max loads for .357's, I finally decided yea you can do it, but after trashing a couple of Ruger Super Black Hawks, wasting a lot of powder and cases and my hands and ears it's just wasn't worth it.
I now load about 90% loads, every thing last longer, the rounds are more accurate and my hands,ears,guns and wallet aren't subject to the abuse. If you want more energy get a larger like a.44 mag gun and shoot 90% loads. My humble opinion for what its worth.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
I am a reloader with a chronograph and I have actually tried a well stoked load featuring H110 and a 125 grain Hornady XTP. The load used 21.5 grains of powder, which was 1/2 grain under the Lyman's maximum. As for why, a matter of curiosity after reading about a 125 grain 1400 fps 357 Magnum being the finest one shot man stopper ever created. As for velocity, 1450 fps out of my 4 inch model 620. It also featured a muzzle blast an estimated 4 feet in diameter and about 8-10 feet in length. In addition the load was LOUDER than a S&W model 500. As a result I called it the HMFBMEAR 357 Magnum, for Holy Muzzle Flash Batman My Ears Are Ringing. Yeah, doubled up on hearing protection as normal and the load was loud enough to ring my ears for about a half hour.

Now, a couple of points. That chronograph data was with the chronograph 25 feet downrange, because I knew this load would have a lot of muzzle flash. It's also one single reading, because the other 4 loads spewed enough debris down range to cause false readings of more than 2500 fps. Second, I know from other chronograph testing that my 620 has a "slow" barrel, typically about 75-150 fps slower than my 6 inch Dan Wesson.

As for harm, all loads extracted easily and showed no signs of over pressure. However, on cleaning the 620 there was noticeable gas cutting on the top strap from just 15 rounds fired. Not enough to be considered damage in any way but enough I won't repeat the experiment. I now load those 125 Grain XTP's with 10.0 grains of Accurate #5 at much more sedate 1200 fps. from the 620 and 1320 fps from the Dan Wesson.

Conclusions.

First, 1875 fps. from a 125 grain bullet in a revolver is NOT at all possible. I have a 357 Magnum load using a 140 grain XTP that routinely clocks 1875 fps. but it's from a 20 inch Rifle. At a guess a 16 inch Rossi M92 was used to generate these numbers, not a Revolver of any description.

Second, I believe those reports of 1400 fps. 125 grain 357 Magnum loads being the best manstopper ever invented are Urban Myth. Because these loads are Hearing Destroyers and there isn't a Police Agency anywhere that would permit the use of a load that puts their officers on Lifetime Disability with just one single incident of use. Yeah, they would be that loud. My estimated is that 1450 fps load I cooked up probably exceeded 165 Decibels. At an indoor range they are the loudest load I have EVER heard.
Old thread, I know, but useful information. I have a box of this coming, but after reading this I might just use it in my Rossi 16" barreled carbine. Thanks for the post.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:49 AM
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The industry standard for years has been a 10 inch sealed breech test barrel for hand gun ammunition evaluation.
Shorten the barrel and throw in a cylinder/throat gap and you will have a much reduced velocity.
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:02 AM
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+1 with post #17;

I always wondered what a watered down "New Safe" PSI loading of 35,000 PSI
would need to be pumped up to to match the old 1970's ammo of...
42,000 CUP..............
in Remington or Winchester ammo?
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:17 AM
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"And remember, all that powder burning in the THREE FOOT FIREBALL in front of your barrel does not affect the target...."

Well, actually, I think it depends on the distance!
The fireball will make the target look like the "Roadrunner" on a bad day! I think all days are bad days if you are the "Roadrunner".

Best,
Rick
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Old 10-08-2017, 01:27 PM
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I have shot a fair amount of the 158g Armscor 357mag. I chrono it around 1350fps consistently out of my Colt Trooper 8".

I would call the recoil significant at that level. Too much for me to shoot all day. I like my handloads at 1000fps much better.

I have found the Armscor to be one of the hotter factory rounds today.


Prescut

The 124g might get up to 1500fps in my gun. You might get 300fps more with a closed breech and longer barrel?

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Old 10-08-2017, 02:58 PM
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l have a box of Super Vel ''POLICE'' 357Magnum, 110gr JHP @ 1940 FPS.

Samples anyone? ;-/ l think l recall Remington loading their 90gr JHP @2000+

l have 300 of their .357 90gr JHP bullets... Just cant find load data for them:-(

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Old 10-08-2017, 06:13 PM
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I remember getting a couple boxes of this ammo during the ammo shortage ( about the time of the OP if I remember correctly.) It was the only thing I could find at the time. It was very hot and loud and uncomfortable for me. No chrono but I have avoided it ever since. Now I load my own mostly mild loads.
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Old 10-08-2017, 06:28 PM
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Talking BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

I wanted some practice with full boat 357 magnum.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Maybe I made a mistake and ended up with the most nuclear powered ammo out there.

I read some posts saying shooters thought it had the largest muzzle blast of any 357 magnum they have ever used.[/QUOTE]

Unless trying to blow up a gun, the wanting the hottest loads out there (NOT saying that is you) escapes me. Use it in the Ruger first.
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Old 10-08-2017, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentflyer View Post
Years ago, I was loading max loads for .357's, I finally decided yea you can do it, but after trashing a couple of Ruger Super Black Hawks, wasting a lot of powder and cases and my hands and ears it's just wasn't worth it.
I now load about 90% loads, every thing last longer, the rounds are more accurate and my hands,ears,guns and wallet aren't subject to the abuse. If you want more energy get a larger like a.44 mag gun and shoot 90% loads. My humble opinion for what its worth.
I went through the " Magunitius " phase when young also . The toll it took on guns, hands , hearing and the wallet just weren't worth it. I have grown older and wiser and now fully understand why the 38 Special is , well , special. So much more enjoyable range time .
Gary
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Old 10-08-2017, 07:33 PM
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"First, 1875 fps. from a 125 grain bullet in a revolver is NOT at all possible".

Maybe not 1875, but a S&W model 686 with a 8 3/8" barrel, 125gr JHP bullet and a heavy charge of bluedot powder chronographed an average of 1810 fps. My brothers load and my gun.
And, if you Google 353 casull (safe in the Freedom Arms 357 Magnum only) you will find loads that go 1750 fps with a 160gr bullet, 1650 fps / 180gr and 1500 fps with a 200gr bullet.

Jim

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Old 10-08-2017, 08:41 PM
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Having started shooting 357 back in the 70s',I remember the Remingtons and SuperVels. Large muzzle blast/flame. Shooting a cylinder full (6) required more than normal force for ejection.
I started reloading back then and made up 'nuclear' loads for 'photographic/attention getting' purposes.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:05 PM
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Buy a Thompson Center .357 mag barrel 14" long. They will take anything reasonable. I used published TC data from 1974 that stretched the barrel lug on a 30 Herrett. Oh, it also fired 800 rounds of that published load killing 500+ prairie dogs at long range for a handgun back then. Muzzle velocity was measured with a chronograph at ~ 2,000 fps with a 100 grain bullet, quite brisk load.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:29 PM
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I note the Hornady Superformance .357s will do 2000fps from a rifle.

Guys have squeezed 1800fps+ with 125grs from Coonans (5") while not exceeding max pressure, so it can be done.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:48 PM
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I haven't tried the Armsor 357, but I shot a whole box of nuclear-hot reloaded rounds out of my 28-2 today.
14.7gr of 2400 under a 158gr LSWC - Alliant says the max charge is 14.8gr
I didn't chrono them, but all i can say is I'm glad I was shooting them from an N-frame. I can just imagine what they would have been like in a K-frame, or God forbid, a J-frame!
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Old 10-09-2017, 12:42 AM
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vipermd vipermd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkcavalier View Post
I note the Hornady Superformance .357s will do 2000fps from a rifle.

Guys have squeezed 1800fps+ with 125grs from Coonans (5") while not exceeding max pressure, so it can be done.
Which guys have gotten 1800 fps with 125 from 5"??? Since you are giving the velocity, bbl length, bullet weight, only question is what powder and how much??? I do not even care if you exceeded 35K psi, the gun will break up before you get 1800 fps in 4-5 revolver or pistol. Show me the numbers , otherwise it it just " cocktail chatter". Be Safe,
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