Hi everyone,
For the past several years I've carried Remington Express 38special plus p 158grain LSWCHP in my CCW (S&W 642).
My problem is, is I can no longer find them..I've always ordered on-line and can no longer do that with the unsafe act that took effect two years ago.
Anyway after looking in 6 different local stores with no luck, I decided to give the Hornady Critical Defense plus P 110 grain a try..I have nice tight groups,,the recoil is noticeably less than the FBI load. I would way I shoot both well, but today the Hornady was slightly tighter, especially with quick fire. I suspect that is do to the less felt recoil.
Anyway, as far as accuracy I am loving the Hornady, but I still do fine with the Remington's and they have such a good long standing track record, that I hate to make the switch. But it least for now, glad that these would be acceptable as far as accuracy.
Looking for some input on how well these Hornady bullets perform and if I can feel assured that there a good choice.. Thanks!

The +p Hornady CD .38 load chronod just at 1100fps avg in my 15-2 4" bbl.
I prefer the Rem FBI a load by a bit, heavier bullets are the .38's strong point, especially from a service length gun.
These were the zombie versions...but same exact load.

When it comes to hitting targets, a miss is not as good as a mile... it is a miss, period! A hit is always best. Sooner of later you will be able to find some of the ammo you have previously preferred to use. In the meantime, use the Hornady CD. It is good stuff. Some will decry the bullet weight as to light. If that is a problem, the Hornady CD is available in heavier weights. But, don't be overly concerned about the unavailability of the Rem. ammo. It is good stuff. The Hornady CD is very good ammo well suited to SD needs. If it is readily available in your area, buy it. Just a thought, given the less than certain assurance of supply, when you find a load you really like, buy several boxes of the particular lot number that works well for you. Later, when your supply drops below the level that you consider suitable, look around and buy more. That way you will not be forced to have to simply buy and use whatever is available. HTH. Sincerely. brucev.

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Buffalo Bore has an excellent 158 grain LSWHP load available. All lead, +P load. Haven't chrono'd it but I have been happy with his other loads. Recoil good, accurate out of my 15's and wife's 14. Have the LSWHP in two model 15's and the wife's model 14 and carry his 357 low flash/recoil load in my model 19's. Specs are available on his website.

HORNADY IS A WELL RESPECTED AMMO MANUFACTURER. THEIR POLYMER TIPPED 110 GR CD AMMO PERFORMS FLAWLESSLY, IN ALL THE TESTS THAT I HAVE VIEWED. I WOULD NOT BE AFRAID TO USE ANY WEIGHT OF IT THAT YOU CAN FIND. HITS ON A CENTER MASS TORSO @ SD DISTANCE SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO DO, TO SAVE YOUR BACON. WHEN YOU FIND YOUR FAVORITE LOAD, STOCK UP. BTW--BUFFALO BORE MAKES A LOAD SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT YOU WERE USING. MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHECK IT OUT...

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Thanks for the helpful replies so far! Yes, Buffalo Bore would've been my second choice after the Remington's,,but nothing available in my area either..
I am real happy with the Hornady CD ammo, as far as accuracy, less recoil, and I've used Hornady rifle ammo in the past and been very satisfied. Glad to hear the positive responses on it here too!
It least I can feel confident with it for now and hopefully things change in the future on ammo availability...Thanks again!

Hum... just one more thought. When I think of Hornady I think of ADD... it was on the side of those old red boxes of bullets I bought to many of when hand loading for rifles, etc. That ADD... it meant... "Accurate. Deadly. Dependable." Still applies. Cool!

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Drew Buffalo Bore is limited in availability here also but I have had excellent results ordering from the manufacturer. I have always gotten my order within 10 or less days of ordering it and they pack it well. I don't know if that's a possibility you've considered by FWIW.

Thanks for the thought..
I use to order all my ammo, life was good and I could always find what I needs and would get good prices too...Then this ridiculous thing called the "unsafe act" went into law and I can no longer mail order

drew-67, IS THAT A STATE LAW, WHERE YOU RESIDE ? ? ? I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT. DOES IT FORBID AMMO SALES OTHER THAN FTF WITH A LOCAL STORE ? ? ?

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

You must live in California, do you have any friends in a close state that can get them for you?.

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John

Remington makes their version of the FBI load -- .38 Special +P 158 grain LSWHP -- under their HTP line now, but it's very difficult to find.

The aforementioned Buffalo Bore version of the FBI load is excellent, but get the Standard version, not Heavy (+P) to stay at FBI load numbers.

As for Hornady's Critical Defense offering, it's good overall; here's a link to a recent post of mine on it, with links to various tests:

good defensive ammo for the mod 10?

New York State..the "SAFE ACT" passed into law in the middle of the night..Most Law Enforcement say that it's did nothing to protect, but just makes things difficult on law abiding citizens..
We can no longer mail order, only face to face transactions .and they are looking to enforce on the spot background checks to purchase ammo.
And ammo is just the Beginning,,there is also the part of only being able to load 7 Rounds into magazines.. And registering what they Consider "assault weapons"
It's a mess to say the least..We have many lawsuits in process, but it's hard not to lose hope

Drew-67,

Both Winchester and Federal also load the "FBI load". I have chronographed all three and velocities were virtually identical. It has been reported however that the new Remington version is somewhat slower than their earlier offering.

You have two options. You could ask your LGS to special order a case of any of these, or the Buffalo Bore, for you. Probably $200-400 if you have to take the whole case, but how bad do you want it?

Second option is, if you reload, to buy a box (500) of Speer 158 gr LWSCHP bullets and load yourself. 5.5 grains of Unique, 6.1 gr. of Silhouette, 4.6 gr. WSF, 6.5 gr HS-6, for a few, will get you right in the same velocity range as any ot the majors factory loads. Then, if you can find even a single box of factory save it for CC (if you do) and shoot the handloads. You can also use 158 SWC from any of the custom casters just to shoot, there is nothing magic about the hollow-point when you are just shooting paper!

This is, of course, if the B.S. "Safe Act" doesn't prohibit mail order of components!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

I recall reading that Remington had changed the lead formula for these; the bullets are now harder & do not reliably expand from a 2" barrel.

Another possibility is the Buffalo Bore 158 SWC +P or even the 150 full WC at standard pressure.

THANKS FOR THE REPLY, drew. THAT'S A TERRIBLE SITUATION. IT ALL SOUNDS UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO ME (I'M NOT A LAWYER OF COURSE--JUST ANOTHER JOKER WITH AN OPINION). HANG TUFF, BROTHER. HOPEFULLY YOU WILL PREVAIL. …..

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

We can still mail order ammo here in California -- except for a few local areas.

For how much longer, who knows.

I have a box and a half of the Buffalo Bore .38 +P SWC, and I believe it says on the box it chronos at 1010 fps. Not home at the moment so I cant say for certain. I do recall shooting 2x4's with it, and a few other + P .38's and it was about the most destructive in my unscientific test. Made a mess out of 2, but did not penetrate 3, back to back. Good energy transfer, IMO.

I'd say you made a fine choice with the Hornady CD. From what I've read, it performs admirably and penetrates at least 12" with reliable expansion through intermediate barriers.

I made a similar "switch" not long ago, but I chose the Speer GDSB load instead. I still would carry the Remington LHP if it weren't so scarce.

Think you mean Hornady's Critical Duty line, which is barrier blind and intended for LE; Critical Defense is built for civilian defense and isn't a barrier resistant round.

Excellent choice on Speer GDSB -- one of the best out there.

I was indeed referring to Critical Defense. I base my statements on this test by DocGKR. The initial test was disappointing, but the subsequent one with a "revised" FTX demonstrated reliable expansion through 4LD. I opine that true "barrier blind" rounds aren't as critical for civilian SD scenarios as they are for LE ones, but are to be considered a bonus if and when they're available.

Also, thank you. I got tired of having to scrub lead from my Chief's bore and charge holes.

ETA: I wanted to make sure, but a quick glance at Hornady's LE website reveals that there is no 110 gr. FTX available in their Critical Duty line.

Definitional distinction, then: denim isn't considered a barrier in regards to FBI protocol tests or loads designed to be barrier blind; those loads are made for maintaining trajectory and structural integrity through ordinary doors and walls, windshields and other common barriers LE face -- hence Critical Duty.

Critical Defense was built, per Hornady, to perform adequately in common civilian defense situations, where Hornady presumes barriers are an unlikely issue.

So by design, yes, Critical Defense will perform against standard FBI protocols, but isn't designed to when faced with wood, glass, etc.

Chief38 and others have chronographed the Remington HTP stuff and found it significantly watered down from the good FBI load of theirs that I carried daily for over fifteen years.

The Buffalo Bore standard-pressure 158gr. LSWCHP with gas check clocks almost exactly identical to the older Remington FBI load. Like the Remington the bullet is very soft lead for better expansion, the gas check reduces leading, and the powder mix produces less flash than the older stuff.

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Oh well, what the hell.

That's correct. Sorry, I should've mentioned that I was specifically referring to heavy clothing as an intermediate barrier.

Then again, light-for-caliber bullets generally perform poorly when they encounter automotive steel, windshields, and building materials as intermediate barriers.

Indeed, I follow and am hugely thankful for chief38's efforts. I'm not aware, though, of others also getting lower velocities; that chief38 did is reason for pause, but can't be considered that last word on the HTP version -- too many variables and too limited a data set.

I'd like to see but have yet to find properly done FBI protocol testing on the new version; if it gets between 12" and 18" and opens up out of a snubby, the other numbers might not matter.

Geez, I guess it's actually probably a good thing that I can not find any!!

I recall dates in my youth where heavy clothing certainly functioned as an intermediate barrier.

May or may not be, but if the FBI load is your thing, easiest is to proceed directly to Buffalo Bore.

And so did her dad's shotgun.....

I agree about the testing; but I'm sitting here, trying to recall where I read that someone else also clocked the HTP at lower velocities from two- and four-inch barrels. I'm afflicted with CRS tonight.

I've always been impressed with the FBI load's long history of effectiveness in real-world use. I tend to favor heavy bullets. But I'm also impressed that NYPD and LAPD have adopted the
Speer Gold Dot 135gr. +P short-barrel loading for all .38 Special revolvers. If I could find that one I might try it. But I know the Buffalo Bore stuff is available.

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Oh well, what the hell.